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Build II - Paradox MJ5 - New design!

#1,101
The bass is currently drying from its fourth (rather heavy) coat of gloss PU varnish. All seems to go well, hope it dries even better than the third coat (better spread / equal thickness).

Not sure yet, but the amount of little dots on the finish caused by the raised grain from the staining process is actually reducing by each new layer. After the first layer, it was a rough surface. By the (two) next layer(s), it could well be evened out completely, or at least so much it is easier to level sand in the final finishing process.

The shine of the gloss finish without polishing surprises me. I hope the wet sanding and polishing goes well, because everything is going according to plan again and this would be a great finishing touch. Actually I'm a bit scared of this sanding / polishing stage as well. I want to do a test run, but do not have a scrap piece of wood that is varnished in the same way. I might do the back of the neck first, because that's the easiest place to do fixes or to start over with. If that's going well, I can move to the front of the bass...

Here are some pictures of the cured third coat (before applying the fourth coat, which is the current state):

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Not the best photos, but you can see where it's going. The flames don't show from this angle, but I feel they're getting more apparent with each gloss coat, albeit rather subtle. If I'd only applied some red stain, the flames would be much more flashy (as turned out on one of my test pieces that I did also varnish), but I actually start to like this more wine red kind of colour (which is bright red in the spotlight). So the result doesn't come out to be that bad at all in the end ;).
 
#1,103
roberthabraken said:
The bass is currently drying from its fourth (rather heavy) coat of gloss PU varnish. All seems to go well, hope it dries even better than the third coat (better spread / equal thickness).

Not sure yet, but the amount of little dots on the finish caused by the raised grain from the staining process is actually reducing by each new layer. After the first layer, it was a rough surface. By the (two) next layer(s), it could well be evened out completely, or at least so much it is easier to level sand in the final finishing process.

The shine of the gloss finish without polishing surprises me. I hope the wet sanding and polishing goes well, because everything is going according to plan again and this would be a great finishing touch. Actually I'm a bit scared of this sanding / polishing stage as well. I want to do a test run, but do not have a scrap piece of wood that is varnished in the same way. I might do the back of the neck first, because that's the easiest place to do fixes or to start over with. If that's going well, I can move to the front of the bass...

Here are some pictures of the cured third coat (before applying the fourth coat, which is the current state):

Invalid Link Removed

Invalid Link Removed

Not the best photos, but you can see where it's going. The flames don't show from this angle, but I feel they're getting more apparent with each gloss coat, albeit rather subtle. If I'd only applied some red stain, the flames would be much more flashy (as turned out on one of my test pieces that I did also varnish), but I actually start to like this more wine red kind of colour (which is bright red in the spotlight). So the result doesn't come out to be that bad at all in the end ;).
Click to expand...

:hyper::hyper::hyper:
 
#1,104
I wish I had advice of this quality when I first started building. It's simple yet hugely pragmatic gems like your suggestion of "starting out on the back", MPU which consistently proves that there is always so much more to learn and so many more tricks to turn.

Personally I think it's Rob's taste in good beers that has attracted the best people to the thread.

Cheers.
 
#1,105
Rob-

Looks better and better every day. Congrats on your progress. Considering you are going to be new to the finish rubout & buffing process, I'd suggest varnishing some scrap boards with 10 coats or so of finish - you can give this the same cure time you'll give the bass and then you'll have some good stuff to practice your technique on. Since you're only four days into the coatings on the body you won't lose more than a few days' time once you're ready to go.

The finish is beginning to smooth out because the varnish is beginning to fill and harden in the grain imperfections that were noticeable during the first couple coats, leaving increasingly smooth surfaces with each successive layer. Now, you just need to keep building it up with successive coats.

At this stage, your biggest enemy is going to be making sure you don't have runs or drips in your finish as they can be a pain to eliminate. But pretty much everything else is going to be readily solved through the polish step.

The big concern with the polish stage is sanding through a low spot back to bare wood or worse, through the color coat. This is why you want to get plenty of coats on there, and give them plenty of time to cure. You want that varnish to be hard as a freaking rock when you begin to wetsand and polish.

You should also start doing some reading up on things like orange peel and witness lines, as these are going to be important visual indicators as to your progress on the rubout and how you should approach them.

Please let me know if you ever have questions, happy to help where I can!

Lonnybass
 
#1,107
Thanks guys!! It's mainly because the help, guidance and support from TB that things are actually improving, but we're not there yet..

Thanks Lonny, for the, again, very useful information! :)

I do have some drips on the last coat, but plan to sand them off before continuing to prevent build up on them, right?

And I do have another question: the top of my last coat seems ever so slightly wobbly / bumpy: do I sand it even and continu to build on top of that to have a flat starting point for new layers? Or do I keep adding layers? My concern is that this uneven surface gets exaggerated by each consecutive layer.
 
#1,108
roberthabraken said:
Thanks guys!! It's mainly because the help, guidance and support from TB that things are actually improving, but we're not there yet..

Thanks Lonny, for the, again, very useful information! :)

I do have some drips on the last coat, but plan to sand them off before continuing to prevent build up on them, right?

And I do have another question: the top of my last coat seems ever so slightly wobbly / bumpy: do I sand it even and continu to build on top of that to have a flat starting point for new layers? Or do I keep adding layers? My concern is that this uneven surface gets exaggerated by each consecutive layer.
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Robert-

The main concern with drips happening isn't so much the "line" of the drip, rather, it's where the drip comes to a stop and forms a little bubble of varnish where the run of the drip ends.

If you get any of these you do want to get rid of them, because they never fully cure and will remain soft under subsequent layers of varnish. Your best bet is get rid of these areas with a little bit of careful spot sanding - but wait a day or so in order to allow the varnish in the drip to harden up a bit. Otherwise it's like trying to sand gum and you might see some tear-out of the finish.

Don't worry about the surface of the bass feeling rough or bumpy - the only thing you should be removing from the finish are any obvious visible dust nibs or fibers or hairs that may have fallen into the coat while it was tacky. It's actually good to have a little bit of texture to the finish right now, it will aid in adhesion of the varnish. And it will all be leveled out to glass once the finish is cured. Buffing will blend all these little high and low surface textures into one finger-smooth level.

Lonnybass
 
#1,110
The main problem with a run or drip is that, for every peak there is a valley. So around the run will be slightly lower than the finish surrounding it.

What usually works better than sanding is to take a new razor and just kind of drag it across the top of the run with the dull side angled forward, like you would a cabinet scraper. (if that makes any sense) until it is leveled off. Don't try and get the low spots out they will pretty much disappear in the next few coats.
 
#1,111
Hopkins said:
The main problem with a run or drip is that, for every peak there is a valley. So around the run will be slightly lower than the finish surrounding it.

What usually works better than sanding is to take a new razor and just kind of drag it across the top of the run with the dull side angled forward, like you would a cabinet scraper. (if that makes any sense) until it is leveled off. Don't try and get the low spots out they will pretty much disappear in the next few coats.
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I somewhere read the tip to use masking tape to create a bevel around the drip (on all four sides). Then scrape it of with a sharp knife. Because of the tape, you shouldn't damage the surrounding surface. I have a few spots to practice so I can work out the best technique... lol
 
#1,112
roberthabraken said:
I somewhere read the tip to use masking tape to create a bevel around the drip (on all four sides). Then scrape it of with a sharp knife. Because of the tape, you shouldn't damage the surrounding surface. I have a few spots to practice so I can work out the best technique... lol
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That's a really cool technique - I hadn't heard that one before. Thanks for sharing, I'll have to try it out!

Lonnybass
 
#1,113
Careful you don't drag the drip. If the varnish is hard you could use the same method I use to scrape back cyanoacrylate drop fills:

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Pretty much the same as your masking tape trick but the other way around. I take a blade and turn a burr on it by running the length of it 45° down the side of a hardened screwdriver shaft. This burnishes/bends the sharp end over in which case you can use it as a small scraper. I often make these when shaping necks. You can see the turned edge on the blade as a lighter line.
 
#1,114
The fifth layer of varnish is on now, thinner and more even than the previous one. I'm learning so much every time I work on this bass, it's a very cool experience I must say!! :)

Things i learned today:
  • Finishing equals patience
  • I'm a perfectionist
  • Cold coffee doesn't taste well...
  • I like bass building (or guitar building for that matter, but I may already knew that)
  • The technique of shaving of drips with a sharp knife and wet sanding afterwards works very good. The varnish was actually pretty hard already, which made it easier to slice of a drip.
  • I got all imperfections out, which made me happy! :hyper:
  • After varnishing they seemed to disappear (of course the real result will be revealed when dry).
  • If you dye your bass red and sand it back a few times to get it right, and do not clean your floor thoroughly then, if it snows outside and the soles of your shoes are still wet from the snow, the red dye dissolves in the little puddles of water on the ground and, when you then kneel to check for any drips around the surface of your bass body, you get pink stains on your jeans just beneath your knees. Don't know if that's useable knowledge for you guys, but I thought I'd share... :eyebrow:
  • And it is much easier to sand through four layers of varnish on the edges than I thought (no harm done though) :hiding:

And now some pictures to spice up this post. First, a teaser to show off the body colour and pickguard combinition. This picture was taken just before applying the fifth layer and clearly shows that the surface of the top is rather rough. Mind you, the varnished surface of the ash and maple on the backside is as smooth as can be.

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And then, a picture with the freshly applied fifth coat of varnish. Because my phone cam doesn't focus well on a wet surface, the figure disappears in the picture, so I did an inset of a picture from a different distance and angle that shows the actual colour and depth of the figure. It's hard to capture how the finish actually looks, but I think you can get an idea this way.

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Now wait for 24 hours to see how this layer cures...
 
#1,115
Looks fabulous Rob!!! Love the inset shot - you were able to capture the grain and the black undercoat really makes those tiger stripes come through beautifully.

Don't worry at all that the top looks and feels rough. This is totally normal and it will all be easily smoothed out after curing. Just keep slathering on the coats, you're about halfway home!:hyper:

Lonnybass
 
#1,116
Lonnybass said:
Looks fabulous Rob!!! Love the inset shot - you were able to capture the grain and the black undercoat really makes those tiger stripes come through beautifully.

Don't worry at all that the top looks and feels rough. This is totally normal and it will all be easily smoothed out after curing. Just keep slathering on the coats, you're about halfway home!:hyper:

Lonnybass
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This has been my experience every time I have used curly maple. The finish never lays down as good as it does on the rest of the bass, no matter how smooth you get it before finishing. It does sand out easy though, and will be as smooth as the rest of the bass with minimal effort.

I think you have enough finish by now to start lightly level sanding. I would hit it with a hard rubber block and 400 grit dry. before your next coat. Sand it very lightly only on the flat surfaces, stay away from the edges. Your goal is to just knock down the high spots, not to get it completely level.
 
#1,118
Lonnybass said:
Looks fabulous Rob!!! Love the inset shot - you were able to capture the grain and the black undercoat really makes those tiger stripes come through beautifully.

Don't worry at all that the top looks and feels rough. This is totally normal and it will all be easily smoothed out after curing. Just keep slathering on the coats, you're about halfway home!:hyper:

Lonnybass
Click to expand...

Hopkins said:
This has been my experience every time I have used curly maple. The finish never lays down as good as it does on the rest of the bass, no matter how smooth you get it before finishing. It does sand out easy though, and will be as smooth as the rest of the bass with minimal effort.

I think you have enough finish by now to start lightly level sanding. I would hit it with a hard rubber block and 400 grit dry. before your next coat. Sand it very lightly only on the flat surfaces, stay away from the edges. Your goal is to just knock down the high spots, not to get it completely level.
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Thanks guys! The flames or tiger stripes do come through beautifully, so I am satisfied with that, but it is more subtle than plannend. If I look at established brands, they do produce more pronounced stained tops, but for a first time, considering what I've learned, it's a cool finish. :smug:

I think it is indeed a good idea to start some level sanding inbetween the coats from now on, if I see how good a new layer levels out by itself, taking off the high spots would help the varnish in creating a smooth result by itself. Thanks for the tip.

bassingeorge said:
Awesome! The red looks fantastic! I wonder, why do the edges look darker than the rest of the red? probably an illusion right? Anyways, nice job! Can't wait to see it all pieced together!
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Thanks! The darker edges are not an illusion, but are really there, due to the fact that I intentionally left a bit more black dye around the edges for a very tiny burst effect (while also not risking to damage the faux binding edge).
 
#1,120
Thank you. I used powder stain from Clou, first black, sanded back and then red. But I wouldn't advise this yet because I did not yet figure out how to get this work flawlessly. Maybe a sprayed transparent red finish would be a better option. If I would go for staining again I would not use black under red, but brown or dark red. I'd save the black for a blue or green finish. For the clear coat I am using poly (PU) varnish.
 

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