Build Thread: ACG Finn 5 (the Wal killer)

[Skelf]

My thanks to Jared a pleasure to work with once again.

I could certainly move the neck out a shade and make the cut away greater but there is a point beyond which balance would be effected. You could also add a few more frets which again would move the neck out from the body but give you the access required at the 24th. The Classic version of this shape does have the cut away closer to the 24th fret but it does not sit on the lap as well due to the shape of the lower horn It would be a question of how much compromise you can make with regard to access verse balance. The further back the lower horn the more it compromises seated playing.
If you have a look at this bass which has 28 frets the 24th fret is where the body wood meets the neck and with a reasonable carve on the lower horn you would have what you are looking for.

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I have been talking to John East about the frequency range of the lowpass filter and we are thinking about reducing that upper limit to give greater resolution in the pot travel to concentrate more on the mids. The upper frequencies would then be handled by the highpass filter with less overlap between the two filters. i am experimenting with the reduction at the moment.

 

[SoVeryTired]

Soundclips? Absolutely! I was listening to that Wal sound on BSSM today and thinking that I want to hear the ACG take on it.

To address the side question from Mark on cutaways and upper fret access... my Finn cutaway is pretty much in line with the 24th fret. The result is fantastic upper-fret access at the slight cost of it not sitting quite so comfortably in a seated position due to the short horn. It balances perfectly when on the strap and it's a trade-off I'd happily take.

At least as important though is the heel and how far it allows the thumb to move up the neck. The way it's sculpted on the Finn, in contrast to the square block of a Fender, allows me to get my thumb up to the 20th fret. Even with my small hands, on a 34" bass, that's more than high enough to get to the 24th - and I do use it live. Hope that helps.

 

[eude]

Enormous congrats Jared, what an amazing bass, and by the sounds of it, it sounds and plays as good as it looks!
Alan certainly is churning out some amazing creations

Eude

 

[spade2you]

Neato. I'd like to hear clips, too. Hopefully I can restrain myself.....

 

[eude]

Neato. I'd like to hear clips, too. Hopefully I can restrain myself.....

+1,000,000 on the sound clips

 

[jim777]

Beautiful bass, that fretboard looks insane

 

[Jared Lash]

Sound clips, definitely!

Yes, please.

Neato. I'd like to hear clips, too. Hopefully I can restrain myself.....

+1,000,000 on the sound clips

So if I'm understanding all these posts correctly, the majority opinion is that soundclips would be a good idea?

I'll see if I can make some tonight or tomorrow.

Interest in sound clips? Definitely.

That is a gorgeous top and a very pleasing execution of the singlecut shape. I really like it aesthetically (I like the hint of Jazz Bass in the lower bouts) and it looks like it would balance well.

Not to derail, but is the painting to the left of the ACG inspired by the Stambaugh to the right?

And, again at the risk of derailing, a question for Alan: The way I hold my left hand in the high registers makes me prefer a very deep cutaway -- one that goes slightly past the last fret. Is it possible to execute this body shape with such a cutaway without compromising seated playing position? Maybe the lower horn would have to be modified...

Back on track: Am interested to hear how well this bass cops some of the classic Wal tones (I think I mentioned early Flea+Wal, if not in this thread then another concerning this pre) as well as its "own" sounds. If you have a single-coil loaded ACG, some comparisons with that would be cool as well, though I realize that might be asking a bit much.

Am interested in how clearly harmonics (think the intro to Portrait of Tracy) come across with the multicoils in different positions as compared to single coils.

Congrats to the builder and the player on a beautiful bass.

The balance is really nice on this bass, seated and especially standing. The painting was one my wife commissioned from a coworker for Christmas. I didn't even have my Stambaugh at the time! I believe she used a composite of bass images she found and ones my wife provided.

Being a set neck this bass lacks the bulky neck heel of a bolt-on and has REALLY good upper fret access though as Alan mentioned, he could accommodate you if the standard carver weren't enough for your playing style.

I'll do soundclips showing the "flat" setting, some Wal-like tones, and some sounds the ACG can get that a Wal can't. Interestingly you have to close the LPFs on the ACG significantly to get into Wal sounds. It's worth noting that I think some of the grit in the Wal tone came from the pickups overloading the preamp which doesn't happen with this bass. For better or worse one difference is that the ACG stays cleaner than a Wal.

I don't have an ACG with single coils. I do have a Stambaugh with Aero single coils though. I'll record some harmonics with the ACG and while I may or may not have time to do a comparison with my single coil bass I can tell you that harmonics absolutely jump off the ACG when using the bridge pickup and yet the fretted notes aren't thin at all. A jazz bass is part of the classic Jaco tone but honestly I prefer the ACG sound for those lines much more.

My thanks to Jared a pleasure to work with once again.

I have been talking to John East about the frequency range of the lowpass filter and we are thinking about reducing that upper limit to give greater resolution in the pot travel to concentrate more on the mids. The upper frequencies would then be handled by the highpass filter with less overlap between the two filters. i am experimenting with the reduction at the moment.

And my thanks to Alan for being an incredible builder and for having such tremendous customer service. I can't recommend Alan and ACG highly enough in all regards.

The filter range reduction is an interesting idea. As I told Alan, I like having the wider range but I don't think people realize how much overlap there is between the LPF stacks and the HPF stack. Cutting it down the LPF range while having the same knob sweep range WOULD allow better resolution in the mids AND make the ACG preamp a little more intuitive.

Soundclips? Absolutely! I was listening to that Wal sound on BSSM today and thinking that I want to hear the ACG take on it.

Will do. That dark and thick yet clear Wal tone is pretty easy to achieve though as I mentioned it isn't as gritty. It can still be very aggressive though.

Enormous congrats Jared, what an amazing bass, and by the sounds of it, it sounds and plays as good as it looks!
Alan certainly is churning out some amazing creations

Eude

Yes, yes he is.

Beautiful bass, that fretboard looks insane

It looks great in person and a little more subtle/rich than it shows in photographs.

 

[Jared Lash]

Some quick soundclips. I just goofed around for a few minutes and then chopped it into sections. All recorded with my Zoom H2 and played through my Markbass Big Band and Baer ML112.

By request here's the bass passive. First the neck pickup, then both then the bridge. At the tail end I engage the preamp.



Also by request, here's some harmonics. First with both pickups and then just the bridge:



Some normal fingerstyle. A bit of Rush (badly played) and more RHCP. The first bit I'm playing with the filters and then I add some treble boost.



Drop D

Again playing with the filters a bit throughout. Some darker and more aggressive playing.



Noodling.

Some palm muting, arpeggios, chords etc. Just goofing around before I stopped recording and went to bed. The tail end of this clip highlights the higher register of the bass a bit.



If there are any additional requests let me know and I'll see what I can do.

 

[bigsnack]

Awesome examples man, thanks! Not a Wal clone by any means, but they are some very unique sounding pickups, which seems rare nowadays. It sounds like these completely have their own sound, which is sweet!

 

[SoVeryTired]

Thanks - will give them a listen when I get home tonight.

 

[Jared Lash]

Awesome examples man, thanks! Not a Wal clone by any means, but they are some very unique sounding pickups, which seems rare nowadays. It sounds like these completely have their own sound, which is sweet!

No, definitely not a Wal clone. The pickups have some definitely similarities in terms of that dark & thick yet clear tone but they are more in the same ballpark as a Wal vs really aping them.

Having played with the filters a bit more I've gotten further into Wal territory as it requires a fair amount of boost at the cutoff frequency to get that really "honky" Wal midrange. And interesting to note how far the ACG filters have to be closed to approximate a Wal. The ACG/East preamp has LPFs that extend up to 7 kHz but I believe the Wal only goes up to 3 or 4 kHz.

But even then Wals have a gritter sound while the ACG is more refined and percussive. Also the fact that the bridge pickup's interface board adds resonance gives it a more traditional/thinner basic tone which adds clarity and versatility but gets it a bit further from the thick Wal sound.

Either way, this bass has it's own sound. Last night was the first time I had a few uninterrupted hours to play it and while dialing in different sounds I'd get hints of Fodera dual coil tones, Warwick Thumb tones, and of course some Wal-like tones but mostly the bass just sounded like itself.

As I said before, with Alan's single coils or standard humbuckers (SBs or FBs) the filter preamp really allows you to sculpt a lot of different tones. I was able to get passable impressions of a jazz bass, P bass, Stingray etc. The Uber series on the other hand have a much more definite (and awesome) voice. Good reason to get one of each!

 

[Skelf]

Thanks for taking the time to sort out the clips Jared very much appreciated.
Anyone that has talked to me regarding how my basses sound in relation to a Wal will know that the intention was never to build a Wal copy it was to build my own basses with their own identity. The basses are capable of Wal like tones and that is intentional but they are also capable of many tones that are not possible with a Wal that is also intentional. I did not really intend to build a multi coil pickup but due to others starting to build them and at some point being asked to use these other pickups in my basses I decided I needed my own version. Again there was no attempt to recreate what Wal have all ready done. I spoke to Aaron and John and we developed the MC Series between us. So if you are looking for a bass that will get you in Wal territory I can help you . If you want a bass that does exactly what a Wal does I suggest you buy a Wal.


Regarding the interface boards. With the pickups fairly close to each other and being basically the same pickup in both positions I thought it important to make the pickups sound different in order to give the pre-amp more sonic information to work with. Filter pre-amps only use what you give them so giving them a broad range to start with makes for a more versatile bass. However you can have a flat response board in both pickups should you not what the bridge pickup to be brighter.

 

[bigsnack]

(sigh), I want one.

 

[smperry]

Thanks much for the clips Jared. It sounds great!

 

[Jared Lash]

Thanks for taking the time to sort out the clips Jared very much appreciated.
Anyone that has talked to me regarding how my basses sound in relation to a Wal will know that the intention was never to build a Wal copy it was to build my own basses with their own identity. The basses are capable of Wal like tones and that is intentional but they are also capable of many tones that are not possible with a Wal that is also intentional. I did not really intend to build a multi coil pickup but due to others starting to build them and at some point being asked to use these other pickups in my basses I decided I needed my own version. Again there was no attempt to recreate what Wal have all ready done. I spoke to Aaron and John and we developed the MC Series between us. So if you are looking for a bass that will get you in Wal territory I can help you . If you want a bass that does exactly what a Wal does I suggest you buy a Wal.


Regarding the interface boards. With the pickups fairly close to each other and being basically the same pickup in both positions I thought it important to make the pickups sound different in order to give the pre-amp more sonic information to work with. Filter pre-amps only use what you give them so giving them a broad range to start with makes for a more versatile bass. However you can have a flat response board in both pickups should you not what the bridge pickup to be brighter.

I think for someone wanting to get more Wal-like the flat interface board for the neck and bridge might be a good idea.

Personally I agree with Alan that it adds versatility to the sound of his basses.

As I mentioned in my first post in this thread the title was tongue in cheek. I never thought I was spec'ing a Wal clone from Alan but rather an ACG that could get some Wal-like tones and more.

And while I'm happy to do clips bear in mind that I'd only managed about an hour or two of total playing time before hastily recording them. There are so many more sounds available that I'm just now discovering.

Last night I got a killer scooped metal tone. Reminded me of Rob Trujillo's sound from the Infectious Grooves albums. Not a tone I'd currently use, but cool that this bass has a lot of arrows in quiver so to speak.

(sigh), I want one.

I can sympathize. I want a fretless version

Thanks much for the clips Jared. It sounds great!

Thanks! I'd love to hear clips of your red Martin Keith sometime. The P/MM combo is always an intriguing one to me.

With so much focus on the tone I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that the fit and finish are also top notch. The carve of the set neck and the assymetrical profile make for supreme comfort and upper fret access.

The zero radius fretboard (I guess technically it's an infinite radius fretboard) might be a bit of an adjustment for some and maybe a big adjustment if you play classic Fenders but I have no issue with it and the gains for playing up high are tremedous.

And I even dig the hardware. The new custom ACG/Hipshot bridge is great looking and functional and the Res-O-lite tuners look good and turn really smooth.

Of all the basses I've owned my wife likes the look of this one the best and her favorite part is the finish. Alan's satin lacquer is expertly applied and super smooth to the touch.

I'm always cognizant about not gushing too much about a new instrument during the honeymoon phase but I knew right away that this bass is a keeper.

 

[Skelf]

I should have mentioned that the different interface boards where not my idea that came from John East and that is why I know and work with John he is a star. Neither the pickups or the pre-amp would be as good without his input design and execution of the design.

 

[smperry]

Glad it's a keeper...it really should be. It's gorgeous and has such a distinctive voice.

Thanks! I'd love to hear clips of your red Martin Keith sometime. The P/MM combo is always an intriguing one to me.

I'll try to record some videos over the next couple of weeks. My amp is finally home because my band is moving to a rehearsal space with amps already there. I never figured out the 'record to laptop' thing so the quality won't be great...but better than the youtube videos from shows I have.

 

[j.kernodle]

ah! so on my Wal if the filters are set to boost at the upper end of their range, they are boosting at around 3khz. that makes sense. the pick attack on the volume knob seems to add higher frequencies than the filters allow.

 

[Skelf]

The pick attack does not go through the filters it has it's own signal path so it does add frequencies above the filter cut off.

 

[SoVeryTired]

Nice soundclips - finally got round round listening to them. It's definitely got its own character as distinct from the non-uber ACGs and the other brand that we won't mention (but it ends in 'al'). The high frequency has been discussed and it definitely has a brighter sound than the 'W' - somehow it manages thick, clear and bright all at once.