Building a Shop

[Hambone]

Lighting - drafting lamps yes - maybe clothes hanger track for a movable hanging shop lamp?

How about simply running a pair of bare low voltage bus wires over your bench areas. Then get the reflector style 25-50 watt halogen bulbs and attach long stiff copper wires to the prongs and put a hook in the end of the wires. Then you hang these on the bus lines - one hook on each line for them to light up. Need a lamp somewhere else? Just pick it up a move it where it's needed.

Flooring - I know concrete will tear up your legs but even @ only $5/sq. ft. that's $2000 of the budget. Do you think I could get away with rubber pads in strategic areas in front of benches, tools and paths of traffic??? They could be drug outside and hosed off at least.

Absolutely! It would be like a guitarist to pad under the benches! Though that's not bad sometimes when you're under there on your knees looking for the damned screw you just dropped.

Tool wise I take Hambone at his word so let's start with a good table saw. Any suggestions?

You probably can't beat Grizzly for quality and reasonable shipping. They come ready for work and they've got a great selection. Of course everyone has a fave but that's a place to start.

I also have to air condition the garage - this IS Florida after all.
thanks again gang!!!!

I insulated my shop very simply with 1" styrene foam board cut and put between the joists. It's just enough to hold the heat in the winter and keep the sun from frying me from the top down in the summer. Cost was something in the $2 per sheet range and I picked them up at a commercial foam place rather than a home supply.

 

[pnchad]

I have little knowledge at all here. How much do you use a planer? Is it possible to go outside and have stock leveled elsewhere? Can you acommplish almost the same with a horizontal sander? What is the capacity (stock wise) necessary?

Has anyone had experience with the combo table saw w/router guide/mount? Someone's got an aftermarket router contraption for the craftsman saw table.

AND, whats the deal with overhead router arms - big advantage???

Love the low voltage light rails. Leave it to Hambone to take a simple idea and perfect it!

 

[Hambone]

Has anyone had experience with the combo table saw w/router guide/mount? Someone's got an aftermarket router contraption for the craftsman saw table.

AND, whats the deal with overhead router arms - big advantage???

Love the low voltage light rails. Leave it to Hambone to take a simple idea and perfect it!

My table saw has one of these on one side but I built a larger one on the other between my fence guide rails. I needed more support for body blanks. I rout roundover edges, shape fretboards to neck dimension, and do cleanup passes on the table router. I also use it for other smaller tooling jobs not directly related to the instrument itself.

Overhead pin router? Huge advantage - I'd give my left vasectomized testicle for one - even a pre WWII vintage one if it were available. They are about the safest way to rout body blanks you can do and they will really hog out the wood. Saw one in heavy action at the Roscoe shop and it simply proved that, next to CNC, a pin router is probably the best tool for this you can get.

Here are some more ideas...

- Look in your yellow pages for conveyor belt suppliers and give them a call. What you are looking for is used, scrap "grocery" belt. The stuff used to haul the groceries up to the cashier. It's a tough black, fiber reinforced belting about 18"-22" wide. It makes a perfect bench top covering. You can bang on it or spill acetone on it and it just keeps on plugging. They throw this stuff out so you should be able to get scrap if you're persistant.

- Put everything on wheels or tool dolly's for moving around. Not because you want to rearrange them regularly - because you need to clean under them even MORE regularly!

- Consider doing some of your production work with air like the big boys do. The investment is already there with the compressor for the shop - just make it's capacity suitable to be able to sustain at least 5 cu.ft./min. @ 90 psi. Air tools are cheaper than power tools and sometimes more versatile because of their small size.

I've got more around here somewhere...

 

[JacksonsMen]

+1 on the air tools, i like the idea about the conveyor belt workbench top, ive always just used cardboard though, just put some finishing nails through it, it hold up pretty well if you arent cutting on it with a straight blade

 

[pnchad]

Still curious about the priorty and/or need for planer or jointer. I know they are essential for truing but which will get used most and, could some process be outsourced thats rarely needed?
We used to have this great shop nearby with excellent gear where you paid by the hour. Gone though.

I've got a huge Pubix (grocery chain) distribution warehouse here - time for dumpster diving for belt rubber!!!

 

[Hambone]

Still curious about the priorty and/or need for planer or jointer. I know they are essential for truing but which will get used most and, could some process be outsourced thats rarely needed?
We used to have this great shop nearby with excellent gear where you paid by the hour. Gone though.

I've got a huge Pubix (grocery chain) distribution warehouse here - time for dumpster diving for belt rubber!!!

Ahhh Dumpster Depot - a great source for stuff for the shop and you'll get the same customer service you get at Big Orange!

Planer/thickness sander/jointer - 3 tools, 3 separate tasks with some overlap. Planer is the most common but it's also the most limited in it's use. Extremely helpful when working with rough sawn stock or odd dimensional stuff. If you are like me and get wood from here, there, and everywhere, you'll find yourself needing some way to get it to the right thickness and a planer is one way to do it. They can be problematic sometimes when planing high figure wood but experience with the tool will cure that. A thickness sander will do pretty much the same thing but in a slower more controlled fashion. A sander can also be used to make some very thin veneers for laminations and the round drum can be utilized for making contours in areas like the transition behind the nut to the headstock face. I happen to use a thickness sander but that's just me - and the fact I had to build my tool because I couldn't afford buying one. A jointer is useful for getting square, clean glueing surfaces on the edges of boards for body blanks and tops. One limitation of the jointer though is the length of pieces that can be fed through the machine. But the pieces used in bass building usually are all plenty long enough. In my estimation though, a good table saw that is well set-up can attain planer quality cuts that are perfectly acceptable for glue-ups. You can also use a router table for jointing edges of your boards so IMO a jointer is your least valuable of the 3 tools discussed here.

As far as outsourcing - Do yourself a big favor and plan on NOT having anything outsourced. Believe me when I say that your budget will allow this. Don't be tricked into thinking the only way to do something is using an outsourced task. I prefer to rethink the process and come up with either A) A different way of doing the task so that I can accomplish it in my shop, my way, on my own terms and time or B) re-design
the look so that it can be accomplished in a different manner. The reason I warn against outsourcing is that sometime, when you least expect it, you'll have an idea that needs realization or you'll be particularly inspired to get something finished or you'll want to work late at night and because you planned to outsource this one task, you'll be stopped in your tracks with your production being held at the mercy of a third party. This building thing can be frustrating enough without losing control of a part of the process.

 

[pnchad]

Wonderful explanations. So, a jointer and nice sander are the way to go. It does sound like you are saying though, that IF I had to outsource, it might be the planing process from a good wood source??? Am I right? Just to get stock to rough dims?

Thanks alot Hambone. BTW where are you at?

Also, the Grizzly Tool website has a cool interactive shop layout program where you can size the room and place their gear, move it around and such.

 

[Hambone]

Thanks alot Hambone. BTW where are you at?

Look at the top right corner of my posts.

That's where we would be able to tell where you are from if you were to take some time to fill out your profile.

 

[pnchad]

You're the second one to mention my laziness. Nothing mysterious here. Yea, I saw you're in Hot 'Lanta right after typing the question.

BTW, I looked through your threads Hambone, very impressive stuff. That fretless w/the Bonsai inlay is beautiful.

I've got Josh Helms building me a bass right now, (are you familiar with his work?), along with a Sad NYC 24-5 and an electrocoustic by Dave Wendler.

I'll muster up the time to do the profile stuff.

 

[Hambone]

Wonderful explanations. So, a jointer and nice sander are the way to go. It does sound like you are saying though, that IF I had to outsource, it might be the planing process from a good wood source??? Am I right? Just to get stock to rough dims?

Thanks alot Hambone. BTW where are you at?

Also, the Grizzly Tool website has a cool interactive shop layout program where you can size the room and place their gear, move it around and such.

No, not exactly. Read back over my recommendations. If you've got the good table saw, that should do pretty well for most if not all of your joining operations. If it doesn't, simply chuck up
a 1/2" arbor spiral bit into the router table and fence it off. A jointer can wait until you've got a couple of instruments under your belt. None of mine have been built with a jointer. The sander is a thickness sander - it levels and dimensions wood to the proper thickness, albeit slower than a planer. But the big advantage to a thickness sander is the additional width. Mine is 18" wide but there are wider. You would easily be looking at 4 figures to purchase a planer that wide. A thickness sander gives the capability of surfacing an entire blank all at once. Try that on a 12" tabletop planer!

So a logical next question might be "What would I do for resawing wide stock?" A good 16" bandsaw will do the job well but they can get pricey. My personal choice would be to fall back on my "double action" tool credo and do my resawing on the table saw. That's why I suggested a good one at the beginning of the thread - there's soooo much you can do with one (and a little imagination). By double fencing, and picking the right blade, you can resaw quickly and pretty accurately. Of course a 10" table saw won't give you a complete cut on an 8" wide plank but it only leaves about a 1/2" strip down the middle. You can cut through that with a bandsaw or do like I do and use a japanese dozouki saw to do the final split. Then run it through the thickness sander. All of my tops, fretboards, and most of my body blanks have been made this way.

BTW, you need to get yourself onto the MIMF (Invalid Link Removed), register, and start perusing the archived discussions. That's where you'll find more condensed information from the experienced builders and not from rookies like me. I can sound like know what I'm talking about and for what I do, I DO know what I'm talking about but for a broader taste of what's possible, you really need to get more input from other builders.

Thanx for the kudos - even a blind pig will find a truffle now and then.

I don't know why everyone else stopped posting here. They had some great ideas too. Not sharing them is a shame. I've probably monopolized the floor here too long anyway.

 

[pnchad]

Thanks again Hambone - I did get it on the planer/joiner thing.

 

[Bass Kahuna]

There has been a lot of good suggestions here, I'll add a few.

A good table saw is a good idea, I use mine for cutting pieces for multi-piece necks. I buy my body blanks from Gallery and they are usually ready to go, very well machined to my specs. Gallery will machine the individual pieces for multi-piece necks too, so you get all of the pieces for a multi-piece or laminated neck ready to glue up direct from Gallery. I also cut my scarf joints on the table saw, and have the jig to do my fretboard slotting on my table saw as well.

Grizzly can be a good source for certain tools. I bought one of their band saws that was on close out, and have been very happy with it. I've even rigged it up to do re-sawing, just need the right blade. It is a 15" band saw, and eventually I can see myself upgrading to a 17" saw.

For work benches, shop the local used furniture stores or garage sales. Get one or two nice, big, heavy office desks with formica tops. Usually you can score one for $20 or so. Yeah, they're big, heavy, and sometimes the ugliest shade of battleship grey out there, but they'll last forever and are cheap to boot! I then put mine on a 2x4 base with big, honkin', locking casters from Grizzly so I could move it. I then keep all of my frequently used hand tools in the drawers. One drawer for files and rasps, one drawer for measuring and drawing tools, one drawer for basic hand tools and setup tools, one drawer for fretting tools, etc. A good choice as well for a workbench is an old chest of drawers. Then put a formica top on it and again use the drawers for storage of tools, sand paper, etc.

I mounted my router table to a double drawer lateral file bought at a used furniture store too.. and the top drawer of it has all of my router bits and router wrenches and router table fence, etc., as well as my smaller router templates (headstock shape, pickup and control cavity templates, etc.) The bottom drawer has all of my larger templates for body shapes, etc.

I mounted my drill press to an old side by side chest of drawers, and any and all drill bits and other things related to drilling are stored underneath it. With the drill press mounted on one end of it, I can lay an entire bass on it when drilling tuner holes in the headstock on a neck through bass, and can swivel the drill press head to the side and use a clamping jig to hold the bass while I drill the output jack hole (I use the electrosocket tele style...) into the control cavity. MUCH easier than trying to drive a 7/8" fostner bit through solid zebrawood or similar with a hand drill.

Basically, my recommendation is don't have a workbench or tool stand that doesn't have storage under it either whenever you can. No, I don't have storage under my table saw or band saw or a very few other power tools, but I probably will eventually. And mount all of those tool stands or desks or whatever on casters. Being able to move them out of the way and make room is very handy!

Lastly, do make allowance for dust collection. Wood dust is a leading cause of nasal cancer, and you might even find that you'll have some allergic reaction to certain wood dust. Read the Warmoth site, they won't work with coco bolo anymore due to too many of their employees having allergice reactions, and maple can be a "sensitizer", meaning that you may not be allergic to maple dust, but it can make you allergic to other wood dust that you currently are not allergic to, so even a shop vac hooked up to each power tool as you use it and then move it from tool to tool is better than no dust collection at all.

 

[pnchad]

Thanks Kahuna. Especially mounting the drill press on a benchtop. I had been thinking about a floor stand DP unit but knew I would need extended support.

I'm now thinking that, other than table saw, band saw and horizontal sander, I may go for larger counter tops/benches and mount smaller tools on them. Everyone has said the same thing about maximizing 3D space for storage.

I now think that I can get most of the basic power & air tools, including duct system for about $5000. And spend about $2000 modifying the garage (flooring/electric/lighting).

 

[Hambone]

If you can at all swing it, seriously consider creating a small room for spraying and curing your necks and bodies after painting. It doesn't need to be any bigger than a half bath really - walls, a ceiling and a door are the main things. This will help keep the dust boogers out of your finishes and make a lot less work for you.

I'm in the process now of "gathering" parts and pieces for a forced air paint and curing booth I've designed. By using some simple principles, I've eliminated the need for explosion proof fans and major filtration requirements - even for my face! It will have be inside my shop and have the capability to heat cure my poly finishes. That's really not "baking" in the industrial sense, more like "accelerating" the drying process.

 

[Suburban]

If you can at all swing it, seriously consider creating a small room for spraying and curing your necks and bodies after painting.

Or, if you can live without the speeded curing and can abide with working sequentially (i.e. not producing dust while finishing), you could do something like the spray booth presented here: http://www.workbenchmagazine.com/main/wb000-woodshop01.html .

And re. air tools, they are pretty neat to work with (great, actually), but awful expensive - both in purchase and in powering. The air pressure-to-work efficiency is about 50% of the electric-to-work ditto.

 

[Basschair]

I didn't get a chance to read all the replies yet (great thread, by the way!), but there's one thing that deserves repeating (if it was already said):

Don't be tempted to skimp on the safety-related stuff! Good ventillation, particulate mask, respirator (if you want to go that far), floor mats if you're going to be standing around for lengthy building sessions, good lighting, fire extinguisher, goggles, gloves, goggles, ear plugs (I use plugs and sturdy ear muffs), goggles, etc. You could even get yourself a cordless phone so that you could have the handset available to you there...that might be going overboard, but you get the idea.

I haven't yet had any emergencies, but what I lack in shop experience I try to make up for in precautions. I'm pretty allergic to wood dusts, especially walnut, so the dust collector and the particulate mask are lifesavers.


basschair, the paranoid safety-guy

 

[Bard2dbone]

I want to support basschair in his recommendations of safety factors. Take safety VERY seriously. Power tools will do horrible damage to delicate body parts much faster than you would believe. You're much easier to cut than a piece of maple is. Don't take the chance.

When it comes to shop safety, paranoia is a healthy state.

 

[Giraffe]

I have found that the woodworking and the finishing elements of our craft don't always get along well together. Finishing requires less space, but it can be very troublesome in terms of keeping it safe to breath and reasonably clean to prevent artifacts in your finished product. Humidity, and to a lesser extent temperature, become a whole lot more important. Friends from Florida tell me stories about shooting coats of pure thinner or even blush eraser to get trapped moisture out of their finishes. Many of them send their components to partners in other parts of the country during the humid season because you need an enormous a/c or dehumidifier unit to keep the air dry enough to shoot a good finish. Keeping things clean is a related, but very serious issue. think about whether you need to shoot finishes in your shop, because a shop with a booth and one without are different animals.

I recently watched a loved one die from pulmonary fibrosis. Imagine suffocating over a period of a few years. Your lungs are pretty sensitive, and once you wreck them you are in for horrible consequences. Minimal safety requires top shelf ventilation, a great respirator, and a steady supply of clean filters for both. I finally settled on shooting in a collapsible, outdoor booth. The "ventilation" and natural light are great, although a few clamping reflector lights are sometimes necessary. I built mine from three 4'x8' panels, hinged so they fold flat, with a fourth little piece for a roof. It takes ten minutes to haul out and set up, stores flat and takes up little space, and I have the "roof" fitted with hangers for various sized pieces. I still use a quality respirator, but this seems safer to me, and it keeps my shop a lot cleaner. Then I bring the finished piece inside and let it dry in a clean, ventilated cabinet. The drying cabinet is set up to hang a dozen bodies, necks, or complete instruments at a time, and my "paint locker" is built into the bottom section. I may install a small heater. This works pretty well in my neighborhood because the temperature is moderate enough that I can use the booth almost anytime, and it rarely rains.

The search for the right workbenches is a tease. There is no single "right" bench for most folks. I like the idea of building several benches of different heights and surface areas, geared toward different tasks. I like a tall bench for fine tasks like fretwork, electronic work, and set-ups. I like to stand while I'm doing this stuff, I think it helps me think better, and bending over for long, intense periods of time just doesn't work. This bench doesn't need much surface area. It has a jig for attaching bolt on necks, and threaded inserts for stems to hod a neck perfectly straight while dressing frets. I use a lower, wider, longer bench for big jobs like carving bodies. Attach a few vises, and we're ready to go.

I feel it is necessary to address one of the most important elements of the shop (after the table saw and benches). You need a stereo. A phone is optional, but good tunes are essential. I need one with a tuner in it because when I get engrossed, I can't be bothered with changing CD's. I spend a lot of time in the shop, and having some degree of human contact keeps me from getting overly strange.

 

[pnchad]

I have been wrestling with the humidity factor both concerning wood stabilization and finishing. I built a voice over isolation booth exactly like described for my studio once insulating the insides with carpet padding. $40 done.

I may start a new thread about humidity severity and solutions. It may be my biggest obstacle.

 

[Hambone]

I may install a small heater. This works pretty well in my neighborhood because the temperature is moderate enough that I can use the booth almost anytime, and it rarely rains.

I feel it is necessary to address one of the most important elements of the shop (after the table saw and benches). You need a stereo. A phone is optional, but good tunes are essential. I need one with a tuner in it because when I get engrossed, I can't be bothered with changing CD's. I spend a lot of time in the shop, and having some degree of human contact keeps me from getting overly strange.

A perfect choice for a paint drying heater is one of the freestanding oil filled electrics that looks like a radiator. You can find them at all of the Home supply and home decor stores. They are sealed units full of oil that is heated and that's a decently safe way to warm your freshly painted bodys if you're using a volatile coating.

Put something like a thin foam filter over your electronic's vents or you'll severely shorten their life. The little electromagnetic fields in the boxes suck up a ton (relatively) of wood dust and collect it around the individual components. Pretty soon it looks like coral on the bottom of the ocean it's so clumped up. Talk about a fire hazard! Just keep the dust out or keep it cleaned out and you'll be fine.