Building a Shop

[mgood]

I want to support basschair in his recommendations of safety factors. Take safety VERY seriously. Power tools will do horrible damage to delicate body parts much faster than you would believe. You're much easier to cut than a piece of maple is. Don't take the chance.

I have known several carpenters/woodworkers who were missing fingers.
Not many bass players are missing fingers. If you want to keep playing, you need all your digits.

 

[pnchad]

As a kid playing full time I always said I could loose my fingers on the right hand as long as I had the lefties. That way I could get a hook, hell a motorized hook for fingerstyle. Slappin's easy, just need a nub.

 

[callmeMrThumbs]

Heard of Bill Clements?

http://musicthing.blogspot.com/2005/12/bill-clements-has-one-arm-still-plays.html

-Josh

 

[schuyler]

so much has been said -- great topic.

on the subject of workbench height, not everyone will find that perfect height which is most comfortable for them to work at. i have two distinct heights i like -- 36" for the main bench, and a higher, smaller bench at 39". I'm 6' 0", btw. The higher bench -- my preferred bass building bench -- is perfect for me for carving the neck, as it keeps the work above waist height where my arms tire less easily. And it's an excellent height for a bar stool as well.

i've known quite a few woodworkers who have incorporated a heavy-duty scissor lift into thier bench -- so they can adjust the height to whatever the project requires. of course, that limits the storage possibilities underneath.

as for the question of which tools are most needed, we all know the real answer is "yes, please -- and one of those as well."

 

[Giraffe]

I settled on a "Precision Bench" that is 50" tall, with a smaller top measuring 16"x42". This is elbow height for my 6'3" frame. Failing eyesight, an occasionally cranky back, and a compulsion to get my nose into my work sets that height, and I built my fretting jig into the top. I can dress frets on this thing all day long. The top is screwed onto the base so someday I will have another interchangeable top set up for electronic work, another for finish and touch-up tasks, another for set-ups and inspections, Foredom tool exercizes, etc. There are shelfs in the base of the bench for a couple of Gerstner-type boxes for my fretting and electronics tools, the weight of which makes the bench sufficiently stable.

My other non-attached bench is 36" tall and 20"x61" on top. I built a couple of 4" risers that bring it up to 40" tall when necessary. A scissor jack would be a slick pro touch, but it is out of my league.

I use a modular system for mounting small tools and vises. I cut a bunch of 8"x12"x1 1/2" base units. I drilled mounting holes in the corners of one of the 8x12's, and used it as a template to drill the other bases. I also used it as a template to drill mounting holes for the bases all over my bench tops. Then I mounted my vises, large and small belt sanders, grinders, buffers, etc. on the base units and stored them away. When I need to do a job, I take the tools I need and bolt them wherever I want them. When I'm done, they can be stored away. If I'm doing nut jobs, for instance, I line up a small vise, a 1" belt sander, and some buffing wheels on the short bench. I set the "Precision" bench parallel to the short one, so I can stand in the middle, between the patient (on the tall bench) and the power tools on the short one. I can then pivot back and forth as I fit and finish the nut very efficiently. When I'm finished, I unbolt the tools and store them and the benchtops are clear and ready for the next job. This is a neat alternative to clamping the tools down, and the small bolt holes in the bench tops don't bother me.

 

[Hambone]

I just remembered my most important tool from another thread awhile ago...

A wood stool!

It's the most versatile single tool in the shop and it usually costs less than $20. It can be and do many different things like a:

- stool (whoda thunk!)
- table
- clamp stand
- stepladder
- saw horse
- paint stand
- light stand
- tablesaw extension
- guitar stand
- drying rack
- tool rack

Feel free to add your own

 

[Rodent]

that stool really meets you 'more than one task' criteria, Alan. Looks like it beats out my ShopSmith for number of utility uses per unit

R

 

[Biagio139]

lighting lighting lighting lighting. paint you wall white. dont do the "spend money on wood" your going to need the tools. I would say grizzley grizzley grizzley. Why "don they make crappy tools" why no they dont they make stripped down tools and infact thay dont make tools at all they come form places that build tools for other companies. and the president of grizzley is a really good hobbist luthier. get a big jointer 8 incher my 6 in drives me crazy. I use a small perfomax 10-20 drum sander its perfect for guitar work. I have a 19 inch band saw from grizzley, nice big table I like big tables and resawing your own wood and bookmatching is really fullfilling. No contractors saws youll get hurt trying to cut thicker stock tables r too small drill presses, I have grizzleys biggest drill press Why you ask well I can put a compound table on it and use it as a mill and drill. If you want to do this do it spend the money youll love it but put away money for luthier tools files etc probably around 1000 dollars alone in files nut files radius boards etc. I like to have to walk to each station, keeping the larger machinery away from one another because it gives me time to think when walking from one machine to another. But also Iam an idiot and have spots in both eyes from not wearing glasses
have fun be safe
Biagio

 

[Suburban]

lighting lighting lighting lighting. paint you wall white. dont do the "spend money on wood" your going to need the tools. I would say grizzley grizzley grizzley. Why "don they make crappy tools" why no they dont they make stripped down tools and infact thay dont make tools at all they come form places that build tools for other companies. and the president of grizzley is a really good hobbist luthier. get a big jointer 8 incher my 6 in drives me crazy. I use a small perfomax 10-20 drum sander its perfect for guitar work. I have a 19 inch band saw from grizzley, nice big table I like big tables and resawing your own wood and bookmatching is really fullfilling. No contractors saws youll get hurt trying to cut thicker stock tables r too small drill presses, I have grizzleys biggest drill press Why you ask well I can put a compound table on it and use it as a mill and drill. If you want to do this do it spend the money youll love it but put away money for luthier tools files etc probably around 1000 dollars alone in files nut files radius boards etc. I like to have to walk to each station, keeping the larger machinery away from one another because it gives me time to think when walking from one machine to another. But also Iam an idiot and have spots in both eyes from not wearing glasses
have fun be safe
Biagio

Phhew! That post took a while to understand....
Got the last part really quick, though.

 

[pnchad]

Everyone has been so helpful. I learned a tremendous amount, much of which straight from the horse's mouth. Many of these tidbits I would otherwise come to on my own possibly following an event involving blood.

I now have a complete list of tools (probably from Grizzly) but I still have a couple of questions.

Has anyone had personal experience with the Craftsman stuff where each tool has its own built-in dust collection system? Would it be better to go that way keeping a big Shop Vac for the room or, is a large integrated dust system superior?

Also, for final dimensioning of blanks I am still not sure whether a large sander will be sufficient and what the minimum size capacity is needed?

Where are you guys getting stock and what form (size) are you getting mahogony, ash, body woods especially? I'm sure it varies but how common is it to get good stock large enough for single piece bodies?

 

[Hambone]

Has anyone had personal experience with the Craftsman stuff where each tool has its own built-in dust collection system? Would it be better to go that way keeping a big Shop Vac for the room or, is a large integrated dust system superior?

Also, for final dimensioning of blanks I am still not sure whether a large sander will be sufficient and what the minimum size capacity is needed?

Where are you guys getting stock and what form (size) are you getting mahogony, ash, body woods especially? I'm sure it varies but how common is it to get good stock large enough for single piece bodies?

Built in dust collection is an idea designed for the ladies and not the guys doing the work. There's nothing truly desirable in that tool line as far as I'm concerned. A large integrated system is nearly always superior but will cost a little time and money - easily well under $500. A large shop vac can do wonders, especially with a hose extension. The only real problem with the SV is that the filters will clog with dust easily. I solved that problem by removing my filter and making my own that will pass dust but nothing else. The dust is then vented to the outside via the exhaust hose directed down through my floor joists.

And no, 1 piece bodies aren't common at all. They can warp more easily and trees the size needed to make stable blanks are far and few between. Your blanks will probably be something in the 14"-16" x 20"-22" size. My thickness sander is 18" wide and that's plenty for doing these.

 

[JTGale]

I worked in a shop quite a few years back that had round duct work attached to the system. The ducts reached right to the floor and had little trap doors on them with a wide snout. Then, when you were finished sweeping up the floor you just pushed the pile over to the trap door, lifted up and scooped it in. No more dust! This was a really, really big system, though. It was a 4-bagger that sat in a room all by itself. But I must say, it was one of the cleanest shops I have ever worked in. No lung cookies at the end of the day!

jtg

 

[pnchad]

Does anyone have any experience with Jet?? There is one of those new WoodCraft franchises near me who carry the line. They seem to have everything at about the same prices as Grizzly if you add the freight.

Also, the project is moving, even if not much has physically occured. The planning is done and we start this week.

POD box for moving everything OUT of the garage temporarily.
Potential A/C w/dehumidifier models IDed.
Window opening to be cut above main bench.
Cabinetry system IDed.
Layout to have 2 benches - one 39-40" and the other 36".

Thanks again for the help all.

 

[Keith Guitars]

Hi All,

I found this thread a bit late...but here goes!

I've been building a shop myself this past year, so I can sympathize with the "decision factor"...it's a *lot* to think
about! (Not to mention building the building from the ground up as well....)

A few personal opinions on what's been said:

-I agree that you should buy as few tools as necessary.
However, the important word here is "necessary".
For me, that above all means not taking any safety risks, or
making any enormous compromises to your efficiency.

I generally agree with Hambone, but I must put in my $0.02
against resawing with a table saw...taking a 3.5"+ deep cut on a piece of 4/4 hardwood standing on its edge is kinda dangerous. Considering the low price of a Grizzly 14" bandsaw with a riser block, it ain't worth the risk.

- Similarly, jointers are pretty cheap...a 6" jointer will run you less than $400. You might be able to find a used Taiwanese 8 incher for that same price, and they save time.
They are sorta "single use" machines, but they are very good at what they do.

My bottom line list is this:
-Bandsaw
-Planer and/or thickness sander
-Jointer
-Belt sander of some kind (horizontal or vertical)
-Decent hand router

If you want to do any kind of volume (more than 3/month),
it's really worth it to get the tools. The extra $800 or so you spend on a cheap jointer and decent bandsaw will come back to you in time within 4 months.

You can do a whole lot with very little - Rob Elrick built his first few batches with a hand drill, a router, and some hand tools. However, always consider your time as valuable, and
consider whether the cost of a timesaving machine is really
worthwhile...it often is.

Peace,
Martin

 

[pnchad]

Thanks for the info. How many processes do expect to get use out of a jointer in the building of each instrument?
I'm already starting to max out my room.

 

[tjclem]

Thanks for the info. How many processes do expect to get use out of a jointer in the building of each instrument?
I'm already starting to max out my room.

I use mine quite often. It was one the first tools I had. If you are doing a lot of laminating, necks etc. it is very handy.......t

 

[Keith Guitars]

Thanks for the info. How many processes do expect to get use out of a jointer in the building of each instrument?
I'm already starting to max out my room.

Hi again,...

The jointer is quite useful for one thing - straightening edges.

I use it for:
1-Jointing bodies/tops together
2-Flattening the face of a board prior to planing
3-Re-machining the face of a finberboard billet when resawing FBs...

The tablesaw or router approach to edging is not always quick, convenient, or safe. An easy example would be straightening out the edges of a roughsawn, tapered fingerboard.

A 6" machine will limit you on Option #2.
However, it's still worth it for the timesaving alone in joining bodies together.

Peace,
Martin Keith

 

[Hambone]

Hi again,...

The tablesaw or router approach to edging is not always quick, convenient, or safe. An easy example would be straightening out the edges of a roughsawn, tapered fingerboard.

Peace,
Martin Keith

OR - use a traditional shooting board to mount the wood to and then you can edge or straighten any piece you want to.

As far as re-sawing on a table saw - Don't let your fear of injury cloud your imagination Keith. There is at least one way that resawing on the table saw can be done perfectly safely with a zero chance of injury. I know because I do it all the time...I use a double fence system I designed so that the board can pass through the blade path while remaining vertical. The blade is totally shielded from being able to touch it and the tight fit of the fences aids control in the case of the board kicking back. I also use other aids to help with this. This is a common method of re-sawing and has been done for as long as table saws have been around.

Here's the thing - for the hundreds of dollars that ANOTHER band saw would have cost me - my imagination can do much more. So I've been resawing for the last 5 years instead of trying to save money to buy a second bandsaw with a dedicated purpose.

 

[schuyler]

Keith almost had it 100% right - a jointer is good for TWO very distinct operations.

1. creating a straight edge.
2. creating a second straight edge at a perfect angle to the first - usually a right angle.

the second task is the one for which a jointer is required, at least in high-end woodwork. i've never met the table saw that will create a right angle as well as a jointer, while also leaving a surface suitable for gluing. and when i say a suitable surface, i mean *perfectly* flat.

i agree that a jointer is less important for building basses than say, furniture. however, i still think a jointer is an essential part of a modern shop. i use mine for dimensioning rough lumber, along with the planer, table saw, and bandsaw. and getting your boards square is crucial -- your work can only be as accurate as your tools allow.

 

[pnchad]

Alright, I will try to find the room and the $$$ for a jointer.

Back to humidity though. I have now done testing throughout the house with a hygrometer. Here in south Florida the A/C is on auto ALMOST all year long. I keep mine set at 77 degrees most of the time. The air outside is somewhere around the mid 80s now with a humidity of probably 75+ percent.

My readings show the house at 59 - 62 percent humidity pretty solidly. I think I can get a room A/C with dehumidifier function and reduce the average to around 50 - 57 percent.

Is that gonna be good enough for stable wood???