• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

BUYER BEWARE: Pickguardian

Status
Not open for further replies.
#22
While I respect your frustration (and the multiplier effect of being a previous scam victim), I believe a message to Tony asking for resolution or refund—and advising him that your next step would be to get Paypal involved—would have been the fair and sporting thing to do before getting Paypal involved.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sloppy_phil, Picton, Bolsyo and 1 other person
#23
TommyGunz said:
I've just gone through a terrible experience with Pickguardian and wanted to make everyone aware so no one else has to go through the same experience I have, at least not without some prior warning.


TLDR: I started my first bass build project here: MIK Squier II Precision Bass - Build Log I sent my original pickguard in over a month ago, received very little communication, and just today after starting a dispute with paypal my order was cancelled, refunded, and was told to either come pickup my original pickguard or send more money for the return shipping.

Here is the play-by-play of the whole experience. This is literally every communication, nothing withheld or edited, though some info is redacted for privacy. Italics is my commentary:

-6/3/20

Me: Hi, I was on your website but I couldn't figure out how to start an order for a pickguard that I would like. I have a Made in Korea Squier II Precision Bass that I would like to get a nice simple white pickguard replacement for. I have the original that I can mail in. I was referred to you from Talkbass.com. Please let me know how much this would cost, how long this would take, and how to start the process. Thanks!

-6/4/20

Tony: Thomas, I have a few P-Bass templates that might work, but it would be best if you sent your original guard to duplicate, especially since it's a Squier. A Squier P-Bass guard in Solid White (.060" or .090") or WBW would be $50 plus $10.95 shipping. If you would like to pay by PayPal, my account is *****. Or you can mail a Check or Money Order with your guard to: *** Thanks,Tony Dudzik Pickguardian

Me: Tony, thanks for the quick reply. I have made a payment of $60.95 to your Paypal. I added a note with the tracking number of my original pickguard that I just sent out today. The tracking number is *** I believe it is expected to arrive either Saturday or Monday. White/Black/White sounds like a good choice. I don't believe I need any other modifications except I will need the volume and tone pot holes to be enlarged to the standard 3/8" size. Please let me know if you need anything else. Thanks.

-6/9/20

According to tracking number my pickguard arrives today

Tony: Thomas, Which address would you like it shipped to? Thanks, Tony

Me: Tony, My address is: ***.

Tony: Excellent! That's what I had from Paypal, but there was a different address on the box.


-6/15/20

I don’t have any issues up to this point, I’m just curious when it will be done. I send a simple request for an update.

Me: Tony, do you have an ETA on the pickguard?


-6/16/20

Tony: Still a week or two from the bench. I'll let your know when it ships.

I’m a little disappointed at this point, but things happen I get it. So I just wait the extra time.


-7/3/20

I was told a week or two and waited 2 and a half weeks and have not received any communication. I’m starting to get anxious. I send another simple request for an update.

Me: Tony, where are you at with the pickguard?

Tony: It should ship next week. Sorry for the delay.

Another week? At this point I’m starting to get worried that I am being scammed. I check Paypal to see if there is a deadline to try and get my money back if I am in fact being scammed. I see that you can file a dispute with the seller and that gives the seller 20 days to resolve the issue before paypal steps in. I decided to give it another week, making it a full month with my original pickguard, but if I don’t hear anything by then I will file a paypal dispute. This way I at least have a chance to get my money back if I am being scammed, but he still has another 20 days on top of the month he’s already had to deliver, and I’ll happily drop the dispute.


-7/9/20

It’s now been a month since my pickguard was delivered. I file a dispute with paypal.

My paypal dispute message: Item not received or even a tracking number. Website advertises 1 week or less turn around. No proactive communications from the seller or explanation for the delays. Repeated emails to the seller are responded with 1 more week, 1 more week, 1 more week, it has been over a month now. In addition to not receiving the product, the seller also has not returned my original item sent in to be copied.

I wait to hear something back, hoping to get this worked out.

Tony: Is there a reason you didn't contact me before filing a Paypal claim? I am cancelling your order and issuing a refund right now. Good luck with your project.

Wow, no apology, no trying to work something out, no attempt at getting the work done. I didn’t file a claim, I filed a dispute, and I have contacted you multiple times before. The dispute is a form of contact, seeking a mutual resolution, that I would have happily dropped. But now a full month in the toilet and I’ll have to start all over.

Tony (almost immediately after the first email): You are welcome to come pick up the guard you sent or send $10.95 to cover return postage. I hope you never have to face what I've going through the last month. You are a giant dick.

Great, now he’s being hostile and vulgar, and holding my original pickguard hostage. I have not responded since receiving this message.


I get that custom work can sometimes take a while. That small shops can’t crank out the work of big companies. That stuff happens and gets delayed. But the website stated 1 week or less turnaround, I was never told different so that was my expectation. I was never proactively contacted or notified of any delays or issues. I always had to initiate contact and ask about when it would be done. I was never rude or demanding, I simply wanted to know when it would be done. Every time I did receive a response it was another week, another week, another week, deadline after deadline being passed up and extended without any explanation. If something was causing a delay I should have been told and been given a realistic timeframe for the work to be completed or offered to have my item returned sooner. If you can’t get the work done in a timely manner that’s fine, just tell me, I’d rather get it back and get it done some where else then wait forever. I should have been given that option. Instead I was kept in the dark. The whole thing was starting to feel like a scam, so I tried to protect myself from losing my money.


Just a terrible end to this whole experience.
Click to expand...
It took six weeks for mine, it isn’t a scam. Once Covid hit it was just him and one other person. I can see your frustration and agree that it should’ve taken less time. At the same time, filing a paypal return without informing him...bad move. Life happens, especially with a pandemic. Seemingly you were both wrong. Be careful before you slag a business, it’s trying times for everyone.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bolsyo
#25
To the OP: Just my two cents, but I don't understand the thought process that leads anyone to the conclusion that you did anything wrong here. After a month of jacking you around (for any reason), now it's incumbent upon you to hold his hand and warn him that you're going to take action to get your money back? Not in my book. If he's going to run a business, then he needs to step up or get out, pandemic or not, family emergency or not. I certainly feel for anyone having a true family emergency, but that doesn't grant carte blanche to treat people as he did you, especially since he didn't even inform you of this. There seems to be a consensus among many in our culture today that holding a business accountable by reporting an experience in a negative review of any kind is wrong, almost utterly taboo regardless of how accurate and truthful it may be. You were giving this guy your business, not signing up to be his buddy and/or let him walk all over you. I think his reaction - the name calling and demand you pay return shipping on your pickguard only confirms that you made the right decision. I think that high accountability is high regard. Letting someone off the hook for poor performance is selling them short, and when it's a business it also sells all of its other customers short. I appreciate your recounting your experience. Also, running a business during a pandemic one would seem to benefit from better customer service rather than using it as any kind of excuse.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Gorn, lestratele, flojob and 4 others
#28
yodedude2 said:
naive question: what is the logic that the business should pay for return shipping on the original p/g?
Click to expand...
Because had the business not screwed up it would have been sent back with the finished product.
Not doing so might also be looked at as "penny-wise but pound-foolish". Look at how little this guy would have had to do to completely avoid this having been posted at all. Simply writing something like: "I am so sorry, I am having a family emergency." or even better offering the OP a discount showing that he actually valued his time and his business, but he didn't take the (literally) seconds this would have taken, when doing so likely would have gotten the customer (OP) on his side. Instead, he chose to create through his inaction an adversarial scenario. I once worked for one of the most successful bicycle shops in the country. We would occasionally get people bringing back mountain bikes that they had clearly just beaten the **** out of and demanding that they be "warrantied". The owner would ALWAYS do whatever it took to make them happy even though many of us were incredulous because of the ridiculousness of the request. (Often the manufacturers themselves would even step up to provide us with phenomenal customer service and keep our owner happy. This was "pound-wise" because we did huge volume with our vendors.) When we queried him on this his response was along the lines of "Now they're going to only have good things to say about us to everyone they know versus them badmouthing us to everyone they know." So for me the moral of the story and the reason he has maintained this very successful business for as long as he has is "Even when they're dead-wrong, the customer is always right." For the record, in this case I believe that the customer (OP) did nothing wrong. Lack of accountability only enables mediocrity.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sludgetail, corndog, TommyGunz and 1 other person
#29
dune said:
To the OP: Just my two cents, but I don't understand the thought process that leads anyone to the conclusion that you did anything wrong here. After a month of jacking you around (for any reason), now it's incumbent upon you to hold his hand and warn him that you're going to take action to get your money back? Not in my book. If he's going to run a business, then he needs to step up or get out, pandemic or not, family emergency or not. I certainly feel for anyone having a true family emergency, but that doesn't grant carte blanche to treat people as he did you, especially since he didn't even inform you of this. There seems to be a consensus among many in our culture today that holding a business accountable by reporting an experience in a negative review of any kind is wrong, almost utterly taboo regardless of how accurate and truthful it may be. You were giving this guy your business, not signing up to be his buddy and/or let him walk all over you. I think his reaction - the name calling and demand you pay return shipping on your pickguard only confirms that you made the right decision. I think that high accountability is high regard. Letting someone off the hook for poor performance is selling them short, and when it's a business it also sells all of its other customers short. I appreciate your recounting your experience. Also, running a business during a pandemic one would seem to benefit from better customer service rather than using it as any kind of excuse.
Click to expand...

The point is to hold folks accountable, but also be patient. I stated that both folks were wrong, Pickguardian seemed to take too long, the OP then initiated a paypal refund without telling him. Big no no, that's money that comes directly out of an account without notice, that happened to me and bounced checks because I didn't transfer funds to cover the refund because I didn't know.
Communication is key, OP seemed to do it well at first and has a legit gripe with that. But not asking for a direct refund is where I disagree and find troubling. Like I said it took almost six weeks from when I sent my guard to the finished product, with the pandemic going on, I didn't pressure.
 
  • Like
Reactions: FRoss6788, Bolsyo and dalkowski
#30
Wow....

He was definitely out of line with that last email (and request for return shipping), and the situation sucks all around.

In situations like this I try to look at the big picture. Most people ARE struggling right now, a lot. For many reasons, and some much more than others. I believe he should have communicated more clearly with you, but if it were me I'd have also given a final email that I was about to file a complaint. He may not have understood and just took it as you taking a swing at his business - which is what you're doing now.

He was wrong. And his wife or one of his children might be dying too.

Now he has your pickguard hostage... and it got ugly.

Not saying your wrong in being upset, either. Saying the situation sucks.
 
  • Like
Reactions: FRoss6788 and TommyGunz
#31
dune said:
To the OP: Just my two cents, but I don't understand the thought process that leads anyone to the conclusion that you did anything wrong here. After a month of jacking you around (for any reason), now it's incumbent upon you to hold his hand and warn him that you're going to take action to get your money back? Not in my book. If he's going to run a business, then he needs to step up or get out, pandemic or not, family emergency or not. I certainly feel for anyone having a true family emergency, but that doesn't grant carte blanche to treat people as he did you, especially since he didn't even inform you of this. There seems to be a consensus among many in our culture today that holding a business accountable by reporting an experience in a negative review of any kind is wrong, almost utterly taboo regardless of how accurate and truthful it may be. You were giving this guy your business, not signing up to be his buddy and/or let him walk all over you. I think his reaction - the name calling and demand you pay return shipping on your pickguard only confirms that you made the right decision. I think that high accountability is high regard. Letting someone off the hook for poor performance is selling them short, and when it's a business it also sells all of its other customers short. I appreciate your recounting your experience. Also, running a business during a pandemic one would seem to benefit from better customer service rather than using it as any kind of excuse.
Click to expand...

We are in the middle of a nationwide pandemic. It's safe to assume that everyone is in various states of emergency. I allow everyone I deal with extra time. Even Amazon who guarantees 1-2 day deliveries on prime services are taking 2 weeks or sometimes more to get the products to you. How do you think that affects a small business? I am not saying that the OP should not be upset or that it wasn't a bad situation I am just saying the proper first step is to ask the business for the refund not file a claim. It's like if you bought something from a store and instead of asking them for a refund you filed a charge dispute with your credit card company. There is a normal expected path.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sloppy_phil, FRoss6788, Bolsyo and 2 others
#32
Johnny Alien said:
We are in the middle of a nationwide pandemic. It's safe to assume that everyone is in various states of emergency. I allow everyone I deal with extra time. Even Amazon who guarantees 1-2 day deliveries on prime services are taking 2 weeks or sometimes more to get the products to you. How do you think that affects a small business? I am not saying that the OP should not be upset or that it wasn't a bad situation I am just saying the proper first step is to ask the business for the refund not file a claim. It's like if you bought something from a store and instead of asking them for a refund you filed a charge dispute with your credit card company. There is a normal expected path.
Click to expand...
Exactly.
 
#35
dune said:
Many businesses are having a hard time during the pandemic. So is the better choice to use that as an excuse for poor customer service, or provide the best customer service they possibly can?
Click to expand...

I understand his frustration but you are correct there is zero excuse for a response like that to a customer. That said when you file a dispute with Paypal the very first content from Paypal is "have you tried to work this out with the seller". In this case I would say the answer was no. An email to say "hey this is taking longer than it said on the website I understand you might be busy but if I can't get this in X time from now I would like a refund" would be the correct approach. THEN if he refuses to finish in time or refund you file a dispute.
 
  • Like
Reactions: a_person387
#36
Johnny Alien said:
I understand his frustration but you are correct there is zero excuse for a response like that to a customer. That said when you file a dispute with Paypal the very first content from Paypal is "have you tried to work this out with the seller". In this case I would say the answer was no. An email to say "hey this is taking longer than it said on the website I understand you might be busy but if I can't get this in X time from now I would like a refund" would be the correct approach. THEN if he refuses to finish in time or refund you file a dispute.
Click to expand...
Yep.
 
#37
dune said:
Many businesses are having a hard time during the pandemic. So is the better choice to use that as an excuse for poor customer service, or provide the best customer service they possibly can?
Click to expand...
Not looking to make excuses for them, but some people are literally losing their minds these past few months. We can either be understanding or supportive, or kick them harder.

If this were $1000 deal, I might feel differently. We're talking about $10 though and someone who has said they're struggling with something seemingly catastrophic.
 
  • Like
Reactions: a_person387 and FRoss6788
#40
Johnny Alien said:
I understand his frustration but you are correct there is zero excuse for a response like that to a customer. That said when you file a dispute with Paypal the very first content from Paypal is "have you tried to work this out with the seller". In this case I would say the answer was no. An email to say "hey this is taking longer than it said on the website I understand you might be busy but if I can't get this in X time from now I would like a refund" would be the correct approach. THEN if he refuses to finish in time or refund you file a dispute.
Click to expand...
How many emails had the OP already sent? How many freaking warnings does a business need? He already had the customer's money, it is therefore incumbent upon him to come through and wasn't it more than double the advertised time, while apparently choosing to provide no reason or rationale for the delay? If Paypal already says "You must provide explicit written warning of filing with us before you can do so." then fair enough. If not, it's just a matter of opinion on whether or not enough attempt had been made on the part of the OP, and for me there was.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lysdestic and TommyGunz
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back