I was thinking maybe grabbing a 410 and then a 115 down the road. The Avatar blemish 410 is a 4ohm I believe so, Id probably need an 8ohm if I wanted to bi-amp?
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Cab advice for a newbie
- Thread starter JJ Honeycutt
- Start date
If you want to use two cabs, both would have to be 8 ohm with at least 500 watts power handling. (You could still safely and effectively use either cab by itself.) If you got a 4 ohm cab, you could only use it by itself with this particular head, and it would need to handle at least 500 watts.
When I was a young metalhead in the 80's(showing my age here) I started on a 1-18 folded horn, then a 410 for tighter sound, then harke alum 410 for even tighter sound, then added a 1-15 for fullness, then upgraded to boogie speakers and went the 210 115 route for balance. Now I use either a 112, a 115 with 210, or just the 115. It's very subjective but the good news is the speakers have gotten so much better sounding over the years at any size. For what your doing I would prefer a 212 over a 410 esp with that head. \m/
Bi-amping is when a crossover is used to divide high and low frequencies before each band is amplified separately. The 4-Stroke isn't a bi-amp amplifier, it is mono all the way. It will allow you to connect two cabinets at the same time, but both outputs are identical.
I would recommend getting one 8 ohms cabinet now, and another 8 ohms cabinet in the future if you need it. You will be providing about 250 watts into each cabinet, so make sure the cabinet is rated to handle this power.
The manual for your amp can be found here: [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Maybe they'll take like $275 for it?
Ampeg PR410HLF The Best Ampeg Cab Ever?!
Maybe they'll take like $275 for it?
Ampeg PR410HLF The Best Ampeg Cab Ever?!
Last edited:
It wouldn’t hurt to check Craig’s List or other local sales for a used 8x10. Most people do not ship these amps when reselling, so you can score great deals sometimes.
Not to dumb it down but “more speakers, more better” as a general rule of thumb, IMO. An 8x10 is better than a 2x15, in my experience, even though they are about the same size box.
The suggestion to get a 4x10 now and add a second one later was good, as long as that would work with your amp.
In my opinion, mixing speaker sizes doesn’t benefit you like people might hope it does. If you’ve ever seen the band Zoroaster, they have a wall of mismatched cabinets, and the band sounds like mud. Conventional wisdom is to have all the speakers be the same size, ideally with multiple cabinets they would all be the same size, manufacturer, and same rating.
I’m not an expert with gear but this is my kind of music. The best bass sounds I’ve heard were Indian (two Ampeg 6x10), Weedeater (two 2x15, one Peavey and one Sunn I believe) and if I recall correctly, Unsane had two 8x10s. That’s probably more than anyone really needs, but more speakers do indeed equal “more better” when the bass needs to sound absolutely massive.
There was probably nothing wrong with the tone of your Sunn speaker cab, you were just asking a subcompact to do the work of an earth mover. In order to feel the bass, you need lots of speakers.
Not to dumb it down but “more speakers, more better” as a general rule of thumb, IMO. An 8x10 is better than a 2x15, in my experience, even though they are about the same size box.
The suggestion to get a 4x10 now and add a second one later was good, as long as that would work with your amp.
In my opinion, mixing speaker sizes doesn’t benefit you like people might hope it does. If you’ve ever seen the band Zoroaster, they have a wall of mismatched cabinets, and the band sounds like mud. Conventional wisdom is to have all the speakers be the same size, ideally with multiple cabinets they would all be the same size, manufacturer, and same rating.
I’m not an expert with gear but this is my kind of music. The best bass sounds I’ve heard were Indian (two Ampeg 6x10), Weedeater (two 2x15, one Peavey and one Sunn I believe) and if I recall correctly, Unsane had two 8x10s. That’s probably more than anyone really needs, but more speakers do indeed equal “more better” when the bass needs to sound absolutely massive.
There was probably nothing wrong with the tone of your Sunn speaker cab, you were just asking a subcompact to do the work of an earth mover. In order to feel the bass, you need lots of speakers.
My first legit amp, ca. 1980. Solid unit, but ollllllld and only 100W. You're due for an upgrade.
It really kinda depends on the tone you want to achieve. I don't know anything about avatar cabs, but the thing is that each company voices their speakers differently. While 12 sounds like it would be a compromise between a 10 and a 15 it can be way different in real life. If you have an orange amp then orange cabs would obviously also be a nice choice. That would be great for a metal rig unless you wan't to play with alot of clarity. But given your past with the Sunn combo I don't think you'd be much into such a modern sounding rig, right?
Metal players very often use 10s. They're often very punchy and direct sounding and if you have a 410 for example you'll usually get all the low end you'd ever want too. If I were to play doom, death and thrash metal I would buy something without that hifi tone and get Ampeg cab, or just a matching Orange cab that sounds and looks equally as metal as the head haha
Good to ask and educated yourself, but at the end of the day...buy something or better yet build something... best way to learn your craft. IMO.
I had an Avatar 212. It was okay. It was a little low mid centered and the tweeter was gone almost instantly. Think blanket thrown over cab. The 410 is probably the way to go.
If you can get an avatar 4x10 for 330
Go for it
I’ve had great luck with their cabs
Go for it
I’ve had great luck with their cabs
212 is probably good if you're a newb I'd say. I recently switched up my amp setup and now I'm not satisfied with the sound I get from the 115 that I liked when used with a 410 as part of a stack. While these are differences you're unlikely to notice when you're a beginner, it might bug you (like it bugs me) down the road. A 212 will be more versatile when/if you decide to add to the setup in the future.
I love Aguilar, have a DB412, check out the DB212 - great sounding cabinet. Has a great, even response, with a great low mid that cuts right through loud distorted guitars and hard hitting drumming. Actually, can get any tone you can dial in and it is beefy, but not muddy.
Also, recently I played thru this cabinet from Ampeg at a rehearsal studio in NYC -- Ampeg SVT-212AV | SVT Bass Cabinet it was paired with a V4B and it was beastie.
Also, recently I played thru this cabinet from Ampeg at a rehearsal studio in NYC -- Ampeg SVT-212AV | SVT Bass Cabinet it was paired with a V4B and it was beastie.
I "can't" speak for the Avatar 212 cabinets, never played through one.
I "can" speak for Avatar's 210 cabinets.
In 2008 I wanted to get into a vertical 410 rig using two 210 cabinets as inexpensively as possible.
Went with two of Avatar's 210 cabs loaded from the factory with Eminence 2510 Neo drivers and Foster horns.
At that time I had 4 cabinets that I gigged with, a Ampeg 810, a Ampeg 410 HLF, a Eden 210 XLT, and a Eden 212 XLT.
After the first gig using the vertical 410 I sold off the Ampegs and Edens and gigged only with the Avatars.
Then, roughfully 3 years back, I stumbled into a used Bergantino NV610 at a unbelievably low price.
Bought it, GREAT cab but it's 36" height was a real problem for my ears, I'd gotten used to the height of a vertical 410 and it's clarity in the mids and highs and it's mids spread across the stage.
About a year back I sold the Berg and went back to the Avatars for whatever job the band does.
It's been the Avatars that I've mostly used in a working, loud, country/rock group for the past 14+ years. They have been nothing short of outstanding.
I "can" speak for Avatar's 210 cabinets.
In 2008 I wanted to get into a vertical 410 rig using two 210 cabinets as inexpensively as possible.
Went with two of Avatar's 210 cabs loaded from the factory with Eminence 2510 Neo drivers and Foster horns.
At that time I had 4 cabinets that I gigged with, a Ampeg 810, a Ampeg 410 HLF, a Eden 210 XLT, and a Eden 212 XLT.
After the first gig using the vertical 410 I sold off the Ampegs and Edens and gigged only with the Avatars.
Then, roughfully 3 years back, I stumbled into a used Bergantino NV610 at a unbelievably low price.
Bought it, GREAT cab but it's 36" height was a real problem for my ears, I'd gotten used to the height of a vertical 410 and it's clarity in the mids and highs and it's mids spread across the stage.
About a year back I sold the Berg and went back to the Avatars for whatever job the band does.
It's been the Avatars that I've mostly used in a working, loud, country/rock group for the past 14+ years. They have been nothing short of outstanding.
Last edited:
+1 for a high sensitivity 212 or 2x112. Unless I’m able to stand a good distance in front of my cabinet, a 410 box just doesn’t work for (or justify the schlep). I like the ability to get more sound up towards my ears rather than my pant leg.
My choice would be a pair of 8 Ohm Avatar SB210s. Use them stacked horizontally when you're playing seated - or vertically when you're standing. You'd also have the choice of using just one if necessary or appropriate.
This is not correct. With 2 cabinets, 8 ohms each, the amp sees a 4 ohm load and puts out 500 watts.
The two cabinets will split that 500 watts evenly; each would only have to be rated for 250 watts.
This is assuming both cabinets are 8 ohm cabinets.
I would get the blemished 410, but check that it is rated for 500 watts (I would be really surprised if it wasn’t though...)
I agree with Dave.. especially if they have a 410 with a cosmetic issue they’ll get ya for for $330. That’s a deal that can’t go wrong IMO. I have a 115 that I love, and a 410 that I love, but I don’t love the two together. The 115 stays at home, and the 410 is in our rehearsal space, and it’s the only one I gig with now.
