How come every time I use the over/under method, the cables tie up in knots when I go to unwrap them?
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Cable management *on stage*: Any tricks you can suggest?
- Thread starter John Bigboote
- Start date
And how can snakes suck tone when the whole selling point of low impedance cables is that you can run huge lengths and not suck tone? Is not a snake just a series of low impedance cables all bundled together?
Next time you're around a 100' XLR cable, plug into it and see how much signal you lose.
damn long cables
damn long cables
that part kicks my ass too!
when unwrapping an over/under-ed cable, i can't tell which end to hold and which to throw; one way and the whole cable flops open in one lovely straight line, the other and i get overhand knots every two feet
JimmyM said:
You can't be doing it right.
Hold one end in your left hand pinky. Wrap the cable around once, clockwise, and back into your remaining three fingers. Then, wrap your hand under the cable, and pull it around into a loop, again back into your remaining three fingers of your left hand.
Repeat that process until the cable is coiled into your left hand. Then tie the far end around the loop in your hand with a simple overhand knot, being sure to keep the other end away from the loops. When you're ready to use the cable, grab the ends, untie the knot, and drop the cable. It should uncoil and fall without snagging whatsoever. I may make a video to demonstrate it, because it's hard to describe in words.
What I do:
Use a velcro cable tie.
Mark it with the length of cable for convenience (sharpie).
Mark it with your initials (to keep it yours, hey accidents happen).
Wrap it over/under starting with the velcro end in your "hold" hand.
Pick an end for the velcro tie & make them ALL the same.
When laying them out, always keep the velcro end in your hand & feed/throw out the other end. Pay attention to the ends so as not to feed the payout end through the wrapped cable the wrong direction, this is critical.
None of this is complicated once you get in the habit of doing it, & it will save you time & cables in the long run.
BTW, you really need a snake & the ability to solder.
Use a velcro cable tie.
Mark it with the length of cable for convenience (sharpie).
Mark it with your initials (to keep it yours, hey accidents happen).
Wrap it over/under starting with the velcro end in your "hold" hand.
Pick an end for the velcro tie & make them ALL the same.
When laying them out, always keep the velcro end in your hand & feed/throw out the other end. Pay attention to the ends so as not to feed the payout end through the wrapped cable the wrong direction, this is critical.
None of this is complicated once you get in the habit of doing it, & it will save you time & cables in the long run.
BTW, you really need a snake & the ability to solder.
Low impedance cables of a certain quality yes. The actual wire and the shielding used, the fact that there are 20 bundles of that wire jammed into a 1" tube seems like it can be a problem. Not too metion that you are going through at least 2 more solder points. I did an AB using a 50' OSP and my 100' Carvin. Used 1 and the 2 50 foot canare mic cables that I scratch built using Neutrik ends. Audix OM5 as the mic. Way more spakle off the cable each time. A buddy cued me in to this. I was skeptical having used snakes for a long time... It isn't fantasy or cork sniffing by a long shot...
Anybody wants a 100 12x4 Carvin snake cheap? Just ping me...
Note that I could not do without the snake except for the SL board and the ability to remote to it with an iPad...
Look, fellas...let's start a new "my custom mic cables vs stock snake" thread...this thread was about cleaning up a full band's worth of cables on the deck of a stage.
IF any of you "flagrant theorists" ever came into a club and handed the engineer your special 100' cable to run all the way back to FOH, just for your mic, or DI....please, tell poor misguided me all about that experience...
IF any of you "flagrant theorists" ever came into a club and handed the engineer your special 100' cable to run all the way back to FOH, just for your mic, or DI....please, tell poor misguided me all about that experience...
Mal, I am using the SL with a MBP and iPad (awesommmme!) for getting out into the venue (the SL is as close as possible to the stage), but still, if I'm running up to 16 channels in, and up to 6 monitor channels out, and power cables, and instrument cables, and the excess cable is just being dumped next to the board... well, I didn't get home from Friday's gig until 3:00, and a lot of that was just sorting out cable mess. I'm really not worried about tonesuck from a 10' or 25' snake.
Invalid Link Removed...
Then I could make *every* XLR cable a 10' XLR cable, and keep them all on one spool, and peel one off as needed, or link as needed.
I think my stragety is coming together here...
-jb
Invalid Link Removed...
Then I could make *every* XLR cable a 10' XLR cable, and keep them all on one spool, and peel one off as needed, or link as needed.
I think my stragety is coming together here...
-jb
Keep it simple and organized.
We have a suitcase-style case with tilt-back wheels and pop-up handle for cords. Under the top cover goes the extension cords, power strips, duct tape, etc; In the little pockets go the small specialty cords like Mp3-to-PA and the short patch cords; The big section is for mic cords, speaker cords and instrument cables.
Mark all cables on both ends with a marker or taped-on tag with the length (30-ft, 10-ft. etc.). If you have speaker cords that look like instrument cords, mark those too.
At set-up, pull the appropriate length for each cable run. Never run them across where the musicians will be standing. Take them around the outside of the guys on the end and back behind the amps if possible. Give the guys some room to move around. If the cord is too short, get a longer one or double it up with another one.
After playing, roll them all up and lay them in the flight case (wiping down with a bar rag if needed as you wrap them up).
Watch for sales at the online music stores and grab a bunch of cords & cables when they go on sale. Nothing feels better than knowing you have plenty of cords to meet just about any situation. Be sure you have at least a couple long heavy-duty ones, like 50-footers, for the speakers down on the far end from the mixer and when you need a long mic or instrument cable.
We have a suitcase-style case with tilt-back wheels and pop-up handle for cords. Under the top cover goes the extension cords, power strips, duct tape, etc; In the little pockets go the small specialty cords like Mp3-to-PA and the short patch cords; The big section is for mic cords, speaker cords and instrument cables.
Mark all cables on both ends with a marker or taped-on tag with the length (30-ft, 10-ft. etc.). If you have speaker cords that look like instrument cords, mark those too.
At set-up, pull the appropriate length for each cable run. Never run them across where the musicians will be standing. Take them around the outside of the guys on the end and back behind the amps if possible. Give the guys some room to move around. If the cord is too short, get a longer one or double it up with another one.
After playing, roll them all up and lay them in the flight case (wiping down with a bar rag if needed as you wrap them up).
Watch for sales at the online music stores and grab a bunch of cords & cables when they go on sale. Nothing feels better than knowing you have plenty of cords to meet just about any situation. Be sure you have at least a couple long heavy-duty ones, like 50-footers, for the speakers down on the far end from the mixer and when you need a long mic or instrument cable.
I don't think all those extra connections will do you any favors... My rule is that I have more cables in any given length than I acutally need. So I can pick the appropriate length cable. I don't use a 50, where a 35 will fit... I also lay the cables out in the reverse of how I will pick them up. I often work from stage plots so I know what the basic layout will be ahead of the game. You'll notice I said "how I will pick them up". I delegate out everything except DI's, mic bodies and clips and cables. Extension cords I delegate. idoes take a little extra time but... It comes out of the tub in order the next time out...
Just one thing before band practice:
Copper, gentlemen, is copper. Unless you've got some absolutely bottom-dollar $2 20-footer cables, it's going to send a signal in the same manner as any other cable. The only way a cable can go bad is physical disruption: bad soldier joints, loose connectors, exceptionally dirty connectors, or break in the cable. The human ear can't hear the freakin' difference between $20 and $120 cable, it's all psycho-acoustics.
Besides the extra physical failure points associated with a snake, the only thing that *might* affect how a cable "sounds" is EMR/EMI (crosstalk). That's going to come from two things: someone's signal being WAY too hot, and two busted cables. XLR cables, even the really small ones in the ends of stage snakes, are shielded to prevent EMR/EMI. And they do it very well, considering it's all based on the most basic fact of electricity: all voltage goes to ground.
That is all.
Peace,
Greg
Copper, gentlemen, is copper. Unless you've got some absolutely bottom-dollar $2 20-footer cables, it's going to send a signal in the same manner as any other cable. The only way a cable can go bad is physical disruption: bad soldier joints, loose connectors, exceptionally dirty connectors, or break in the cable. The human ear can't hear the freakin' difference between $20 and $120 cable, it's all psycho-acoustics.
Besides the extra physical failure points associated with a snake, the only thing that *might* affect how a cable "sounds" is EMR/EMI (crosstalk). That's going to come from two things: someone's signal being WAY too hot, and two busted cables. XLR cables, even the really small ones in the ends of stage snakes, are shielded to prevent EMR/EMI. And they do it very well, considering it's all based on the most basic fact of electricity: all voltage goes to ground.
That is all.
Peace,
Greg
so bell wire, thn and micro thin stranded will all sound the same ? that in ste iof the difference in surface area and capacitence .
i'm no cork sniffer when it comes to cable. at least not beyond a point... those crazy exensive power cables ? nah.. don't think so. all i can say is try it with an open mind and a good mic body...
i'm no cork sniffer when it comes to cable. at least not beyond a point... those crazy exensive power cables ? nah.. don't think so. all i can say is try it with an open mind and a good mic body...
Snake as much as you can and try to avoid using cords that are longer than you need. this will be a little less head ache in the long run.
I work full time at a professional concert and conference hall.
First of all.. Subsnakes.. We use them for everything (usually 12 line for drums and bass and guitars go into that if we have space). We maybe do 1-2 "home runs" (taking a mic cable all the way from the mic to the inputs) per gig, and that's usually something that gets added afterwards og a channel just next to the inputs.
Learn to coil! Under-Over is the only correct way!. We tape everycable (with Würth electric tape, it's the only one that doesn't leave any residue) just one loop around the cable so you don't have to spend time removing it next time. We sometimes tie the cables if we don't have any tape in our pockets. NEVER tighten the knot. Leave it loose or you can damage the cable (the shield gets bad).
Doing the over-over technique leaves you with the cable rotated around itself, so when you uncoil it you have to stroke trough it to get it straight again.
Velcro has it's problems. If it's stuck to the cable and you have 24 cables in a stage box they can get stuck togeather. Velcro also gets filled with hairs etc.
People getting knots when under-over-ing cables, you are pulling the plug trough the centre of the coil. If you look at the coil you can usually see how it's coiled. Don't worry, it still happens to me sometimes
It's usually better to keep the slack closer to the mic. For guitars i for example leave the coil behind the amplifier so if you move the mic you wont have to pull it across the stage. Then also you don't have all your cable coils in one spot, so they become tangled if you remove them in a different order than you put them.
Try not to let the cables "hang". Take them around the micstand or use those cable clips that come with some stands. "flying" cables are asking to get tangled.
Try to keep cables out of the entrance to the stage. if you must, tape it down with gaffers tape, even better if you can tape a peace of rug over it.
NEVER run mic cables across the stage itself, someone is bound to get tangled. It's enough getting the guitar cables across the stage.
Put your cables to the front line in a single run across the side and along the front. Vocal microphones, monitor cables and power for pedals. Always leave enough cable left for vocal microphones (especially lead vocal). Coil them nicely next to the stand.
When packing. Try to get as much stuff of the stage before doing cables. I usually remove all mics and stands, monitors, pedals. DRINKS and guitar cables off stage before I try to coil the cables. Unplug everything you see when the gig is over and you're removing gear.
Label your cable length with a colour code. You'll quickly learn how long a cable needs to be. Always leave a bit of cable to be able to move the mic around if needed.
Leave a bit of cable at the monitors. They sometimes need to get moved.
For my band I bought a soft case for a floor tom (14-16") that I keep my cables in. It's great when packing into the car since it's not a hardcase it can be shoved in gaps.
I think I'm not forgetting anything
First of all.. Subsnakes.. We use them for everything (usually 12 line for drums and bass and guitars go into that if we have space). We maybe do 1-2 "home runs" (taking a mic cable all the way from the mic to the inputs) per gig, and that's usually something that gets added afterwards og a channel just next to the inputs.
Learn to coil! Under-Over is the only correct way!. We tape everycable (with Würth electric tape, it's the only one that doesn't leave any residue) just one loop around the cable so you don't have to spend time removing it next time. We sometimes tie the cables if we don't have any tape in our pockets. NEVER tighten the knot. Leave it loose or you can damage the cable (the shield gets bad).
Doing the over-over technique leaves you with the cable rotated around itself, so when you uncoil it you have to stroke trough it to get it straight again.
Velcro has it's problems. If it's stuck to the cable and you have 24 cables in a stage box they can get stuck togeather. Velcro also gets filled with hairs etc.
People getting knots when under-over-ing cables, you are pulling the plug trough the centre of the coil. If you look at the coil you can usually see how it's coiled. Don't worry, it still happens to me sometimes
It's usually better to keep the slack closer to the mic. For guitars i for example leave the coil behind the amplifier so if you move the mic you wont have to pull it across the stage. Then also you don't have all your cable coils in one spot, so they become tangled if you remove them in a different order than you put them.
Try not to let the cables "hang". Take them around the micstand or use those cable clips that come with some stands. "flying" cables are asking to get tangled.
Try to keep cables out of the entrance to the stage. if you must, tape it down with gaffers tape, even better if you can tape a peace of rug over it.
NEVER run mic cables across the stage itself, someone is bound to get tangled. It's enough getting the guitar cables across the stage.
Put your cables to the front line in a single run across the side and along the front. Vocal microphones, monitor cables and power for pedals. Always leave enough cable left for vocal microphones (especially lead vocal). Coil them nicely next to the stand.
When packing. Try to get as much stuff of the stage before doing cables. I usually remove all mics and stands, monitors, pedals. DRINKS and guitar cables off stage before I try to coil the cables. Unplug everything you see when the gig is over and you're removing gear.
Label your cable length with a colour code. You'll quickly learn how long a cable needs to be. Always leave a bit of cable to be able to move the mic around if needed.
Leave a bit of cable at the monitors. They sometimes need to get moved.
For my band I bought a soft case for a floor tom (14-16") that I keep my cables in. It's great when packing into the car since it's not a hardcase it can be shoved in gaps.
I think I'm not forgetting anything
I work full time at a professional concert and conference hall.
I think I'm not forgetting anything
You are my hero.
-jb
BTW, I figured out why I was getting knots...practiced my over/under and tried throwing the cable as directed...it worked with no knots!
