Cabs Are Key!

[DuluthDank]

Seriously though, where do you really see amperage higher than 200 become full-on necessary?
Even at the last big concert (311) that I went to, I’m thinking, “everything Peanut is playing into is tapped into FOH so, why worry about it?”.

I was on the verge of buying a pretty substantial rig recently, but talked myself out of it for about this reason. Even with ear plugs, i sometimes get ringing in my ears after shows or practices. By showing up with a massive, powerful rig that is ostensibly used only as my stage monitor in most cases, it seems i'm buying into this idea of the necessity of destroying my hearing. Now my goal is to show up with something smaller and manage stage volume the best as I can (no small feat in a band that plays heavy music).

 

[BassyBill]

That is why I say you should put as much effort as you can getting a good direct sound, then add the amp and cab.

You’re certainly right in the sense that if you’re not liking the direct sound, you’re unlikely to fix it with any amp or cab setup.

 

[agedhorse]

Agreed. The size and shape and port and speaker of a speaker cabinet make a HUGE difference. Most of the difference, actually. Look at the BOSE stuff. It's all about the enclosure.

The COMBINATION of drivers, cabinet and good design is what makes a speaker stand out as a really good speaker IME.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Seriously though, where do you really see amperage higher than 200 become full-on necessary?

I've run 130W into 2x10 and that failed to keep up in a ~100 capacity venue with no PA support. 350W into 2x10 is fine, and why I went up from 130W. 200W into 2x10 might be marginal, or might be fine. Of course it depends a lot on cabinet design, speaker sensitivity, etc.

I can get an amp that does 700W in less weight than a upgrading a 2x10 to a 4x10, so my back says let the amp do the work, so there's no incentive to go for 200W.

 

[Aussie Player]

Since (2014) I got into this sport which, compared to probably most of you my age on here, is relatively recent, I’ve had and played a fair number of amps/cabs. Regardless, I have concluded that while head (size/amperage) output is thought about, it really isn’t what matters to me.
For example, having my PF-20 or my TE elf tapped into an efficient, well made cab or two will get the job done in just about every scenario I can think of.

Agree or disagree?

The youth of today will not be familiar with HiFi Stereo systems. The cell phone ear bud brigade has no concept of sound quality that was integral with the baby boomer generation to the point that there used to be dedicated HiFi stores where you could go and either buy or build a HiFi system and the costs were staggering if you let your ears rule you.

The golden rule of sound quality was always input and output with more emphasis being on the output so that the general thinking was to spend half your money on the speakers and the input was the cartridge containing the diamond head needle.

Your view aligns with this hypothesis. I think the head is a little more important than you do because I don't recognize the industries common analogy for "punch" but the speakers are definitely a critical contributor for me. I have 4 cabs these days but one stands out as preferred because they others cannot sound that good.

 

[Greywoulf]

I was on the verge of buying a pretty substantial rig recently, but talked myself out of it for about this reason. Even with ear plugs, i sometimes get ringing in my ears after shows or practices. By showing up with a massive, powerful rig that is ostensibly used only as my stage monitor in most cases, it seems i'm buying into this idea of the necessity of destroying my hearing. Now my goal is to show up with something smaller and manage stage volume the best as I can (no small feat in a band that plays heavy music).

I think it's smart that you talked yourself out of bigger and louder rigs. ~But I'm thinking it might be even smarter if you put some of those gear $$ you saved into better ear protection? If your ears are ringing now, they could also be ringing (or buzzing, or just silent!) later when you're perhaps not with a band. It's not great fun being even partially deaf when you're a bit older and still like to play, but can't hear your bass as well as you'd like to...
(~Wanna ask me how I know this?)

 

[SteveHeissner]

Agree.

 

[skygzr]

View attachment 4754320
Agreed.

C’mon, man, peel that protective plastic off the wireless receiver, please?????

 

[Jason Hollar]

Hey, you wanna see something really scary??

View attachment 4754975

So this is where all the Big Bens end up!

 

[BOOG]

I've run 130W into 2x10 and that failed to keep up in a ~100 capacity venue with no PA support. 350W into 2x10 is fine, and why I went up from 130W. 200W into 2x10 might be marginal, or might be fine. Of course it depends a lot on cabinet design, speaker sensitivity, etc.

I can get an amp that does 700W in less weight than a upgrading a 2x10 to a 4x10, so my back says let the amp do the work, so there's no incentive to go for 200W.

Was it the same 210 cab, with different amps or they different cabinets, too?
Your last sentence doesn’t make sense to me.

 

[BOOG]

Any rig is only as good as it’s weakest link. A crappy sounding amp (to you) plugged into a great cab is still going to be a crappy sounding rig.

Subjective.
The point isn’t really to bag on any amps. Your crap might be my glorious-ness and vice-versa.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Was it the same 210 cab, with different amps or they different cabinets, too?
Your last sentence doesn’t make sense to me.

To be fair, different cabs as the 130W was a Trace Elliot BLX combo with the extension, the second was an AH350SM with Marshall 2x10. So it's not scientific in that way. In terms of published sensitivity (from memory from an aeon ago) the Marshall speakers were actually a hair less sensitive, but it was a bit louder in a band situation. If you'd put me in a room and cranked up the BLX and extension and the Marshall and extension I might possibly have been hard-pressed to necessarily say which was louder, but in a band context it made a difference. The Marshall sounded a lot smoother than the Trace Elliot BLX, so in that sense I'd have been able to tell you which amp and speakers it was without much effort.

This was the Marshall element: Marshall DBS 7210 bass cabinet 400w 2x10" 1994 | Reverb

 

[DonaldR]

Back in the stone age the rule of thumb was always; Set aside a sum of money for your Hi Fi, Half of it buys your components, the other half buys your speakers. I'd go so far to say as this rule still holds true but even more so now. Spend as much as you can on your enclosures and what's left on your rig!

You are missing the 10% rule of your budget for cables.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

To be fair, different cabs as the 130W was a Trace Elliot BLX combo with the extension, the second was an AH350SM with Marshall 2x10. So it's not scientific in that way. In terms of published sensitivity (from memory from an aeon ago) the Marshall speakers were actually a hair less sensitive, but it was a bit louder in a band situation. If you'd put me in a room and cranked up the BLX and extension and the Marshall and extension I might possibly have been hard-pressed to necessarily say which was louder, but in a band context it made a difference. The Marshall sounded a lot smoother than the Trace Elliot BLX, so in that sense I'd have been able to tell you which amp and speakers it was without much effort.

This was the Marshall element: Marshall DBS 7210 bass cabinet 400w 2x10" 1994 | Reverb

P.S. How I know a 60lb cab is too much.

 

[DonaldR]

Nice Marantz or Pioneer or JVC receiver running though old Radio Shack speakers. Just doesn't sound right.

For me, a Marantz or Pionner or JVC receiver doesn't sound right to start with. But that's for another thread...

 

[agedhorse]

You are missing the 10% rule of your budget for cables.

Just beware that this rule was written by snake oil salesmen with a lot of snake oil on hand to sell.

For me, a Marantz or Pionner or JVC receiver doesn't sound right to start with. But that's for another thread...

I worked in that industry 45 years ago, was a factory service guy for both Marantz and Pioneer (never worked on JVC nor had anything to do with those products). It might surprise you to know how advanced the power amp circuitry was in many of those products, and how well engineered they were. These basic topologies have been used all the way through until the end of class AB amps without much change (other than robustness for the intended use). It was relatively mature technology by the mid 1980's.

 

[SoulReflection]

I was an invincible young person who didn't spend a few cents on hearing protection. Now, I get to spend $4K on hearing aids every 4 to 5 years and still don't hear as well as most.

Too late to learn my lesson, what about you? I can think of a lot better amps and basses to spend that kind of money on, but I do not have a choice.

 

[Boneless]

Since (2014) I got into this sport which, compared to probably most of you my age on here, is relatively recent, I’ve had and played a fair number of amps/cabs. Regardless, I have concluded that while head (size/amperage) output is thought about, it really isn’t what matters to me.
For example, having my PF-20 or my TE elf tapped into an efficient, well made cab or two will get the job done in just about every scenario I can think of.

Agree or disagree?

On bass guitar, where most amps tend towards relative linearity (frequency-wise especially), cabs are certainly more of a factor. Even if you keep things very simple, the average cab will have a rollercoaster of a frequency response which, ultimately, is something more immediately perceivable than harmonic distortion, for instance, especially in the midrange. Just compare different cabinet IRs on the same bass track to see what I mean. Whatever amp character there is is relatively marginal in comparison. (IMO).

 

[Boneless]

Also, IRs only tell a very small part of the story. Cabinets are defined not only by on axis frequency response but by off axis frequency response, power handling (and power compression), vent efficiency if ported and speaker construction (which may introduce non-linearities itself, think about panel flex for example, or vents actually moving the speaker's resonance upwards at high power), the woofer's own non-linearities... lots of factors and complexity that are on a much larger order of magnitude compared to basically *all* amplifiers.

 

[DJ Bebop]

I have seen far too many people spend a good bit of money on their bass, another good bit of money on the amp head, and then skimp on the cab - old, indestructible Peavey boxes with unknown, replaced speakers inside. Why wimp out on such an important part of the chain?

Nice Marantz or Pioneer or JVC receiver running though old Radio Shack speakers. Just doesn't sound right.

The speaker is the voice for whatever is coming through it