• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Calling out BS?

#121
JoeWPgh said:
However, your brain can easily decieve you. And in DBT it's your brain that's front and center, which is why I said this sort of testing introduces the very problem they are trying to eliminate.
Click to expand...

On the contrary, a double blind test takes your brain largely out of the question by eliminating biases. Listen to 'A', listen to 'B'. Are they different? Simple as that. No preconceived ideas whether they should be different or which one should be better. And with a DBT, no indirect biases from the tester. Any other way, and your brain is influencing how you interpret what you hear.
 
#122
JoeWPgh said:
Your mood one day might favor one violin, while the opposite might be true the next. Add to that, the results of many test subjects who will have different preferences of their own.
Click to expand...

Which is all excellent information to have, and which clearly contradicts the standard folklore that a 500-year-old Stradivarius is inherently always unquestionably superior to any other violin.
 
#129
gln1955 said:
On the contrary, a double blind test takes your brain largely out of the question by eliminating biases. Listen to 'A', listen to 'B'. Are they different? Simple as that. No preconceived ideas whether they should be different or which one should be better. And with a DBT, no indirect biases from the tester. Any other way, and your brain is influencing how you interpret what you hear.
Click to expand...
This gets at my concern with the violin test. If you have the musicians PLAY the instrument, that becomes a significant factor in which one they decide SOUNDS better. If I give you two basses, and one is more comfortable for you to play than the other, won't that bias your opinion in a similar way that knowing one is an expensive, Italian instrument and the other was just built? I agree it indicates that a new instrument can hang with the classic, but it isn't a result purely based on the tone of the instrument.
 
#130
wvbass said:
This gets at my concern with the violin test. If you have the musicians PLAY the instrument, that becomes a significant factor in which one they decide SOUNDS better. If I give you two basses, and one is more comfortable for you to play than the other, won't that bias your opinion in a similar way that knowing one is an expensive, Italian instrument and the other was just built? I agree it indicates that a new instrument can hang with the classic, but it isn't a result purely based on the tone of the instrument.
Click to expand...

That comparison could be done three ways. If you have someone else play and the person judging is just hearing it, not seeing the violin, then you have an unbiased judgement on the tone. Then, you can have the tester, play the fiddles literally blind, so they can judge the playability without knowing which is the vintage instrument. That will tell you if the new instrument can hang with the vintage in terms of feel and playability. Finally, do an open test where the tester knows which is vintage.

Do all that with enough testers and it'll tell you something about vintage violins AND about bias in this kind of experiment.
 
  • Like
Reactions: twoByFour
#131
gln1955 said:
That comparison could be done three ways. If you have someone else play and the person judging is just hearing it, not seeing the violin, then you have an unbiased judgement on the tone. Then, you can have the tester, play the fiddles literally blind, so they can judge the playability without knowing which is the vintage instrument. That will tell you if the new instrument can hang with the vintage in terms of feel and playability. Finally, do an open test where the tester knows which is vintage.

Do all that with enough testers and it'll tell you something about vintage violins AND about bias in this kind of experiment.
Click to expand...
Sure. However, the violin test reference in this thread was not purely a test about the tone of the instrument. It was a gauge of the overall appeal of the instrument to a musician. Tone was a part of that, but so was the feel and playability of the instrument itself. It was the second of the tests you name, yet some seem to interpret it as the first.

Not trying to argue. Just pointing out that while the violin test did show that the overall quality of a modern violin can be on par with, or even superior to, a Strad, it does nothing to establish that a modern violin sounds as good or better than a Strad. That is, assuming I interpreted what I read correctly.
 
#132
wvbass said:
Sure. However, the violin test reference in this thread was not purely a test about the tone of the instrument. It was a gauge of the overall appeal of the instrument to a musician. Tone was a part of that, but so was the feel and playability of the instrument itself. It was the second of the tests you name, yet some seem to interpret it as the first.

Not trying to argue. Just pointing out that while the violin test did show that the overall quality of a modern violin can be on par with, or even superior to, a Strad, it does nothing to establish that a modern violin sounds as good or better than a Strad. That is, assuming I interpreted what I read correctly.
Click to expand...

OK. I've heard about those tests but never read the details of what they did. I certainly agree with your view of that.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back