Can a DI box do this? (Radial content)

[Miles_ONeal]

Playing in churches can be challenging, what with hard surfaces everywhere and volume restrictions and so on. Because of this, I started going ampless a year or more ago. I've been basically using a Sushi Box London Underground and a Wampler Ego compressor. I've used a few different DI boxes, notably a Hosa Sidekick and a Behringer Ultra-DI. I've also been plagued with noise whenever I wanted to add something to the signal chain, such as a chorus or other effect. I'm using a Cioks DC-7, so I was somewhat flummoxed by all the noise.

To cut to the chase, I decided to try a Radial Pro DI. Not a cheap box like the other ones I've used, but a real standard. All noise is GONE. Chorus sounds great. No radio stations, no clicks and clanks, etc. I had wondered why I was getting noise from the lights and so on, and "single coil" type hum when I'm not using single coils, and so on. All gone.

I've never been a DI box connoisseur, I just kind of figured it's just a way to put TS in one end and get XLR out the other. OK, I know it's more than that, but hey, parts is parts, right? Seriously, I knew that the Hosa box is bottom-of-the-barrel, even the Behringer was a significant upgrade. But I didn't expect this kind of improvement.

Either there's been some sort of serendipitous coincidence where these noises went away, or this Radial ProDI is amazing. I'm going with the Radial is amazing.

While the Behringer may be an upgrade, I wouldn’t say significant. It’s still basically entry level.

 

[Miles_ONeal]

Really liked radials when I’ve used them at various churches and festival stages.

Honestly though, I use a Livewire Double Shielded PDI on my own board ($50) and am just as happy with it.

Great under appreciated DI.

LIvewire is the GC/MF house brand. IME it’s good quality, worth the price. I haven’t tried anything with actual electronics in it, though.

 

[Miles_ONeal]

I worked for Shure for over 40 years, the list would be...more than I can remember. It isn't that I designed everything all by myself either - there are wireless systems where I designed the companding scheme, or the audio signal path, there are microphones where I came up with the technical approach, and/or ran the project in the early stages or architected things, and had other folks fill in details, etc. There are teleconferencing products where the acousttical approach to the mic array had input from me, or the signal processing used an algorithm I came up with, or (in one case) a 5 minute conversation in a hallway where I threw in an idea became a mode for a product that the team hadn't thought of - the list is pretty long; I got to sick my nose into a lot of things. There are even a few things that might someday turn into really cool, really new products that I'm hoping will see the light of day. Literally none of my patents have just my name on them - there were always people I worked with on everything I did.

That’s how most engineering gets done — collaboration and teamwork.

 

[Miles_ONeal]

My preamp pedal (MasterEffects Super 800 Plus) has a DI. I use that or the one from my amp, depending on how I’m using the amp.

 

[TonyP-]

It’s because of the transformer. That’s what a quality Jensen transformer does for you. This is why I only use transformer balanced passive DI’s.

This

 

[toughluck]

You mentioned Behringer Ultra-DI, but they're all named Ultra-DI, so not a specific model. And Radial Pro DI is a passive DI box. All passive DI boxes I tried were prone to picking up interference and all of them had some signal attenuation.

Active DI boxes are much more robust, but they need power. But some of them (surprisingly, not all) can run from phantom power which means you can forego a battery.
FWIW, I like Behringer's active DI-20. Never had a problem with is as long as you use one channel (and perhaps use the link out). But in typical Behringer fashion, about half of mine (so 2 or 3 out of 6) suffer from significant crosstalk between the two channels regardless of whether they're set to link or 2-channel mode.
So they're perfectly fine single-channel DI boxes, but I wouldn't use them as dual-channel.

 

[JazznFunk]

There's a reason the industry standard for live work (and in the studio on many occasions) has forever been the Countryman Type 85 (phantom or 9V battery powered), Radial J48 (phantom only), or Radial JDI (passive). I love other, more feature filled or character-imparting powered DIs like the Radial Firefly ( I adore this one for studio work or live work with upright bass), or my current fave the SushiBox FINALLY (v2 in my case), but I would never suggest a working bassist be without either a Countryman or a Radial JDI.

 

[Flatwound]

Live and learn, I guess. But I can say that it’s nice to suddenly have dead quiet on my channel when I’m not playing.

 

[el murdoque]

In my book, a DI - not what the kids nowadays call DI - is a box that changes impedance and transforms unbalanced to balanced.

That can be done badly, and introduce noise, or it can be done good enough and eliminate noise.

...or it can be done overly fancy (looking at you Khan and REDDI) to become part of the sound forming in the signal chain.

 

[Jack]

There's a lot of people here that are correctly saying that the radial is a really nice di box and it is but isn't a magic bullet and it doesn't have any kind of active noise reduction or anything. I wonder if you were just using the ground lift, it was a new box and you probably didn't check.

The di will be grounded at the desk and your pedal power supply will be grounded on the stage, so there's your potential problem.

 

[brianrost]

It’s because of the transformer. That’s what a quality Jensen transformer does for you. This is why I only use transformer balanced passive DI’s.

The Radial Pro doesn’t have a Jensen transformer, the JDI does (that’s what the J is for I guess). It still sounds great.

I wonder if you were just using the ground lift, it was a new box and you probably didn't check.
The di will be grounded at the desk and your pedal power supply will be grounded on the stage, so there's your potential problem.

The Behringer has a ground lift. It’s a knockoff of the Whirlwind Imp2 DI box that has been around for since the 70s. A real Imp2 is $79 these days while the Radial Pro DI is currently $135.

 

[Jack]

The Behringer has a ground lift. It’s a knockoff of the Whirlwind Imp2 DI box that has been around for since the 70s. A real Imp2 is $79 these days while the Radial Pro DI is currently $135.

That's my point. I don't the Radial is doing anything special here.

 

[mixbus]

There's a reason the industry standard for live work (and in the studio on many occasions) has forever been the Countryman Type 85 (phantom or 9V battery powered), Radial J48 (phantom only), or Radial JDI (passive). I love other, more feature filled or character-imparting powered DIs like the Radial Firefly ( I adore this one for studio work or live work with upright bass), or my current fave the SushiBox FINALLY (v2 in my case), but I would never suggest a working bassist be without either a Countryman or a Radial JDI.

I was introduced to the Countryman Type 85 bak in the early 1980's at a studio I recorded in/worked at.
Solid performer.

I also like the Stewart ADB-1 active DI. A bit of a sleeper.

But really, any well designed & built piece of kit will work well. It's when you get to the bottom feeders, where you run into trouble.

Cheap can be expensive...

 

[JazznFunk]

I was introduced to the Countryman Type 85 bak in the early 1980's at a studio I recorded in/worked at.
Solid performer.

I also like the Stewart ADB-1 active DI. A bit of a sleeper.

But really, any well designed & built piece of kit will work well. It's when you get to the bottom feeders, where you run into trouble.

Cheap can be expensive...

Yep. I had one instance where a stubborn FOH tech insisted I used their falling-apart Behringer DI instead of my own Countryman and there was a persistent buzz and crackle that he couldn't resolve. He checked everything, continued to blame my cable and my bass, and finally I convinced him to use my Countryman simply to A/B things. Amazing how sometimes we should be trusted to know our own gear.

 

[Al Kraft]

My Countryman 85 and Radial JDI have been with me for decades. My band mates typically use the Radial Pro-DI. I have never run into a situation where there was need to swap out any of those DIs to fix any kind of problem.

It's worth remembering too that even top quality gear that is not taken care of or is misused can introduce problems. IME grounding /ground loops and cable problems (usually shielding and/or poor shield termination on connector issues) tend to be the weak links when troubleshooting noise problems. Everything in the signal chain matters...it's the entire system and all the interconnections that have to be taken into account.

One last thought regarding total system performance is to recognize the importance and impact of spending wisely to have all components bringing at least an equal capability level. An old expression we use in engineering to remind ourselves we can only expect performance to the level of the least capable component or process accuracy applies here...if you measure with a micrometer, mark it with a piece of chalk, and cut it with an axe, don't expect micrometer accuracy.

 

[Flatwound]

I used the Behringer (Ultra DI 400P) again this morning, just to see what would happen. Noise came back. My conclusion, therefore, is that the Radial is just a much better made piece of equipment.

 

[Al Kraft]

While I genuinely believe the Radial is a better piece of gear (in all respects from design to manufacture), it could also be that there is just something wrong with the Behringer DI. In any event, finding that the Radial solved the problem isn't a big surprise.

 

[Miles_ONeal]

Yep. I had one instance where a stubborn FOH tech insisted I used their falling-apart Behringer DI instead of my own Countryman and there was a persistent buzz and crackle that he couldn't resolve. He checked everything, continued to blame my cable and my bass, and finally I convinced him to use my Countryman simply to A/B things. Amazing how sometimes we should be trusted to know our own gear.

Ignorance can be entertaining … after the fact … sometimes.

 

[Jack]

I used the Behringer (Ultra DI 400P) again this morning, just to see what would happen. Noise came back. My conclusion, therefore, is that the Radial is just a much better made piece of equipment.

Did you try using the ground lift on the Behringer?

 

[toughluck]

Did you try using the ground lift on the Behringer?

I noticed engaging ground lift results in more noise in some situations, so it might even be the opposite.

@Flatwound : Did you try toggling the ground lift? There should be a difference heard when you toggle the switch, if there isn't, the switch itself might be faulty.