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Can a person change?
- Thread starter JAUQO III-X
- Start date
Well everything is for a reason. Maybe others learned to not do or behave as the people you say were scum(that never changed).
It's a good possibility that the scum you speak of taught others how not to be scum.
Addiction, another topic, is a disease that impairs the mind and the body. The impairment causes "scum" behaviors that are very hurtful to their loved ones that usually enable the behavior. I've seen people go in an out of rehabs and sober living homes. It is when the willingness becomes the focus.
12 step programs are successful because it invites participants to stay in contact with each other during good and bad periods of time.
If anyone acts like "scum", they probably don't want to and are most likely ashamed of their actions and want to be "normal"> "Isms" take people out of "normal" and they become known by their behavior.
"Successful people are WILLING to do the things that unsuccessful people refuse to do." Earl Nightengale
Willing is the key. Without that, nothing changes. If you want to be a better bass player, then you must be willing to practice all aspects of the instrument that you feel you need to improve.
If someone is willing to lose the "scum" behavior, they must be willing to take the necessary steps towards change.
Thank you.
12 step programs are successful because it invites participants to stay in contact with each other during good and bad periods of time.
If anyone acts like "scum", they probably don't want to and are most likely ashamed of their actions and want to be "normal"> "Isms" take people out of "normal" and they become known by their behavior.
"Successful people are WILLING to do the things that unsuccessful people refuse to do." Earl Nightengale
Willing is the key. Without that, nothing changes. If you want to be a better bass player, then you must be willing to practice all aspects of the instrument that you feel you need to improve.
If someone is willing to lose the "scum" behavior, they must be willing to take the necessary steps towards change.
Thank you.
I would go so far as to say that some people addicted to drugs are not 'scum' at all. I dont think doing drugs makes a person scum, its their behavior they exhibit while on & off drugs that would determine them so. If a person is addicted to meth but never does anything wrong, aside from the illegal act of buying & using meth would they be considered scum? A drug addict yes, but scum? At least not until their addiction causes them to do some typical scum behavior. Please note, I am not absolving drug addicts of their actions, just noting that drug addiction does not necessarily equate a person to scum.
To address the OPs question, yes I believe people can change, with an actual desire to and a whole lotta effort. It isnt easy, but it can be done.
All true and all possible. But as far as being able to draw any conclusions on such a broad question as "can a person change", I think it's down to the individual and the details surrounding who they are and their lives in general.
I could easily say, "Sure - anyone can change" and then have dozens of people cite examples that prove otherwise.
Do I believe even bad people can accomplish good? It's possible, but again it's all very subjective and I think too broad a question to answer simply.
As many have said, I think that if the 'scum' in question has a lot of good people around them, a lot of support and they actually acknowledge that they need to change and are willing to invest in themselves, then it's very possible.
I agree that there are different cases of addicts. But when one steals from friends to feed an addiction I lose respect for that person until he truely changes (which I have seen happen). You can argue that the drug causes this behavior and that the person isnt genuinely "scum," but the behavior negatively affects me amd friends nonetheless.
Can they? Probably.
Will they? Probably not.
People are so ingrained in their habits/paradigms that few can actually picture any other way of being or thinking. They think that their way is right and don't have an issue with how they are. Even if the do recognize a problem, taking the steps to change is perceived as being too difficult, so they don't.
Will they? Probably not.
People are so ingrained in their habits/paradigms that few can actually picture any other way of being or thinking. They think that their way is right and don't have an issue with how they are. Even if the do recognize a problem, taking the steps to change is perceived as being too difficult, so they don't.
I thought about this thread a little longer, and I remembered a friend of ours who I would consider "scum". She got hooked on meth, and down the tube her life went. She has done some terrible things to friends and family and been sent to jail a handful of times.
In the 25 years I have known her, she has been in and out of treatment over and over. Hundreds of people have helped her in her recovery. But she always slips right back to her scummy lifestyle.
So from personal experience, I would have to say no.
-Mike
In the 25 years I have known her, she has been in and out of treatment over and over. Hundreds of people have helped her in her recovery. But she always slips right back to her scummy lifestyle.
So from personal experience, I would have to say no.
-Mike
As anyone in recovery will say - "one day at a time".
I have a very close friend - married, 2 kids, good job the American dream. Then, crack. How he got hooked on crack is mind-blowing to me, but he did and hit rock bottom - no pun intended.
His wife never left him and his family supported him - both emotionally and literally - and in spite of many relapses over the course of the last 10 years, he's since been sober consistently for many years now. He and his wife have even become foster parents which I think is testament to the fact that in the right circumstances people can improve their lot in life.
It's all one day at a time - for all of us. As long as the planets all stay aligned, his supports remain intact and he remains committed to himself and his family, I think it's very possible that he'll continue to maintain a stable, positive and productive life.
At any given point in any of our lives a curve ball can be thrown that knocks us off our path so just because you're currently not 'scum' does not mean that something could happen that could turn you into scum without warning. One day at a time.
Each day that you are able to wake up and make choices for yourself is a good day. Depending on the choices you make that day will determine whether or not that day remains good.
I have a very close friend - married, 2 kids, good job the American dream. Then, crack. How he got hooked on crack is mind-blowing to me, but he did and hit rock bottom - no pun intended.
His wife never left him and his family supported him - both emotionally and literally - and in spite of many relapses over the course of the last 10 years, he's since been sober consistently for many years now. He and his wife have even become foster parents which I think is testament to the fact that in the right circumstances people can improve their lot in life.
It's all one day at a time - for all of us. As long as the planets all stay aligned, his supports remain intact and he remains committed to himself and his family, I think it's very possible that he'll continue to maintain a stable, positive and productive life.
At any given point in any of our lives a curve ball can be thrown that knocks us off our path so just because you're currently not 'scum' does not mean that something could happen that could turn you into scum without warning. One day at a time.
Each day that you are able to wake up and make choices for yourself is a good day. Depending on the choices you make that day will determine whether or not that day remains good.
I would consider Monster's Ball the best movie I've seen about a person changing and turning his life around.
Sure! I think it happens all the time, and I've seen a lot of people change myself!
However, it usually involves hard work and breaking bad habits, both of which are hard to do.
However, it usually involves hard work and breaking bad habits, both of which are hard to do.
There were actually two questions being asked and I do think they have two different answers.
From the title:
Can a person change?
From the OP:
Can a person go from being what many would consider scum turn they're life around?
I think the answer to the second question is relatively straight forward. As others have previously stated, I would say the answer is yes, though it is the exception rather than the rule.
The answer to the first question is tougher to answer. Yes, we all change in small ways every day. But how much does someone's basic nature and character change throughout their lives? I'd say not much. Can they change behaviors? Sure. An alcoholic can learn to stop drinking and a drug addict can get clean and a carjacker can stop stealing cars at gunpoint.
But does stopping those actions change who they are as a person? As I mentioned to Jauqo in another thread, there is nothing that a person can do to erase their past. My example was that someone who raped once is always a rapist. I don't care what else you do with your life, you are always a rapist.
I feelthat there are fundamentally decent people who somehow get pulled into a life of "scumminess" and whose basic nature allows them to leave it behind and then there are those whose basic nature always leads them back to being scum. Unfortunately I truly believe that some people simply can't be saved - by themselves or by anyone else.
From the title:
Can a person change?
From the OP:
Can a person go from being what many would consider scum turn they're life around?
I think the answer to the second question is relatively straight forward. As others have previously stated, I would say the answer is yes, though it is the exception rather than the rule.
The answer to the first question is tougher to answer. Yes, we all change in small ways every day. But how much does someone's basic nature and character change throughout their lives? I'd say not much. Can they change behaviors? Sure. An alcoholic can learn to stop drinking and a drug addict can get clean and a carjacker can stop stealing cars at gunpoint.
But does stopping those actions change who they are as a person? As I mentioned to Jauqo in another thread, there is nothing that a person can do to erase their past. My example was that someone who raped once is always a rapist. I don't care what else you do with your life, you are always a rapist.
I feelthat there are fundamentally decent people who somehow get pulled into a life of "scumminess" and whose basic nature allows them to leave it behind and then there are those whose basic nature always leads them back to being scum. Unfortunately I truly believe that some people simply can't be saved - by themselves or by anyone else.
Go from scum to great person, that is doable. I've got friends now that I despised few years ago. But if you mean by change, change how you do certain things, I think not. I will forever hang the toiletpaper with the end of the roll outwards, while my grand uncle and his wife I've noticed do the opposite, and change it back if I change the toiletpaper facing outwards. And that I think is more interesting discussion, because you can change your behaviour per how other people percept you, but I think one can't change subconscious ideas and concepts.
I believe that it can happen. Given the correct change in environment, circumstance, and perspective. It seems, however, unlikely. People often need a motivator to obtain results. The greater the desired change the greater the motivator must be.
Having said that, I have changed a great deal. I work on correcting m thoughts throughout the day. I don't know that one can learn compassion though.
Jonathan
Having said that, I have changed a great deal. I work on correcting m thoughts throughout the day. I don't know that one can learn compassion though.
Jonathan
- Feb 27, 2005
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I see people change for the positive all the time. I've changed from scum to someone I can look at in the mirror and not flinch.
I've also currently got my best friend and singer from a few years ago living with me. We didn't talk for a couple of years, and I thought I'd lost him to drug addiction (along with "scummy" behavior) for good. Now he's moving here to improve his lot in life, and change the way he's been living and thinking for the last couple of decades.
Like others said, though, it took a lot in my life and a lot in his life to motivate change, and it keeps taking effort to keep changing. It's not easy, but it happens.
I've also currently got my best friend and singer from a few years ago living with me. We didn't talk for a couple of years, and I thought I'd lost him to drug addiction (along with "scummy" behavior) for good. Now he's moving here to improve his lot in life, and change the way he's been living and thinking for the last couple of decades.
Like others said, though, it took a lot in my life and a lot in his life to motivate change, and it keeps taking effort to keep changing. It's not easy, but it happens.
If someone is truly "scum", then no, I wouldn't expect they can change. Scum is scum.....you've just got to hope they eat a bullet before they do too much harm to society.
I know this isn't really helping much, but it's the first thing I thought of when reading the post: I wonder if everyone here hasthe same semi-universal definition of "scum" or if their personal expereinces affect how and when they view someone as such.
Just using an example found int his thread...there's a difference between a 19 year old guy blowing numbers after a party and a mother of 3 snagging her 4th DWI, yet I'm betting they'd both be called scum by some here.
My buddy got busted borrowing some stuff from a sporting goods store when he was 17. It was far from the first time and his hobbies included a little bit of B&E. He was lucky in that he was caught with a low dollar item and was under 18. After a fine and a sealed record, he got off with a lifetime ban from the chain. I can promise he would have been considered scum by some. Hell, the fact that I was with him at the time would earn me the label with a few. That was the last time he ever illegally acquired another's property.
My buddy is an angel by some standards, and should be in jail right now by others.So I guess my point is the liberal use of the term for this discussion.
Mike
Just using an example found int his thread...there's a difference between a 19 year old guy blowing numbers after a party and a mother of 3 snagging her 4th DWI, yet I'm betting they'd both be called scum by some here.
My buddy got busted borrowing some stuff from a sporting goods store when he was 17. It was far from the first time and his hobbies included a little bit of B&E. He was lucky in that he was caught with a low dollar item and was under 18. After a fine and a sealed record, he got off with a lifetime ban from the chain. I can promise he would have been considered scum by some. Hell, the fact that I was with him at the time would earn me the label with a few. That was the last time he ever illegally acquired another's property.
My buddy is an angel by some standards, and should be in jail right now by others.So I guess my point is the liberal use of the term for this discussion.
Mike
It seems like there is a lot that needs to be defined her. The term scumbag is subjective. So is the term 'change'. Are we talking about change motivated from an internal desire, or change based upon the desire to improve social perception? I think more often that not perceived change occurs because of the latter, and only rarely because of the former.
Yes,
I did.
I was a drug dealer, my own drug of choice was cocaine. I used to stay up 3-4 days in a row and sell cocaine by the fist full. I then started growing marijuana indoors (more money).
I robbed people for drugs/money and treated women like shiat, I was by all terms a "scumbag", in and out of Jail.... I have to live with my shame for who I was, but it has made me a stronger person.
I am now free of that person I was. I learned that treating people the way I did came back in the weirdest ways, from the shame to the way that people treated me because they knew who I was, when I was younger that persona was cool, now I know I was just young.
I have now completed College and I have a pretty sweet job and some more constructive hobbies.
I did.
I was a drug dealer, my own drug of choice was cocaine. I used to stay up 3-4 days in a row and sell cocaine by the fist full. I then started growing marijuana indoors (more money).
I robbed people for drugs/money and treated women like shiat, I was by all terms a "scumbag", in and out of Jail.... I have to live with my shame for who I was, but it has made me a stronger person.
I am now free of that person I was. I learned that treating people the way I did came back in the weirdest ways, from the shame to the way that people treated me because they knew who I was, when I was younger that persona was cool, now I know I was just young.
I have now completed College and I have a pretty sweet job and some more constructive hobbies.
