Can I have "pro" for less than a grand?

[Dr. Cheese]

I'm no pro, but I wish I had a dollar for every time I have seen someone gigging and sounding great, playing a bass that I thought was cheap or crappy. I even went so far as to get rid of great basses that I loved because I thought they were too good for my modest abilities.

What I have learned is that I have to be comfortable with and like what I am playing, whether it is a $4,000 Ken Smith or a $150 used Peavey.

 

[Dark Horse]

I don't get it why you guys are so hard on him.

Nobody was "hard on him". People simply said that the "bass" is not part of the "pro" equation. The "player" is. A Fodera doesn't make you a "pro player", just like a SX doesn't make you a "beginner or amateur player".

the OP asked for a pro grade bass which for me means a bass....

"For me" being the key words.

that a professional bassist (i.e. someone who plays bass as a profession) would choose which for me means a bass that has good fit and finish, holds a setup, holds a tuning

For the most part, correct. However, I did a major label album a couple years ago where I played an old Burns bass that had crappy fit and finish, didn't hold tune well, and was only "barely" set up - but it was the perfect tone for the song and the track ended up sounding great.

...and has a sound which fits a wide variety of genres or a variety of sounds which makes it versatile.

"Versatility" has nothing to do with a bass being "pro quality". In fact, I (and MANY other pro bassists) would much rather have a few "one trick pony" basses. Basses that do ONE thing remarkably well, instead of trying to be a "jack of all trades". Versatility, in most cases, equals "lots of tones, but none of them great tones".

as someone who plays 4 strings exclusively (came back from 5 about 4 years ago) I don't feel like he was patronizing 4 string basses or their players and I do agree that a multi genre session player would need an extended range bass which is nowdays often called for in Hip Hop and Metal.

I play 4 string basses. I make my living making music. I haven't "needed" a 5 string yet. I do occasionally tune the E string don to a drop D, or alternately, if I know the session will require a low B or such, I'll use a 4 string tuned BEAD with larger gauge strings. No big deal. 10 minutes for a string and nut switch.


My $.02 - and I'm sure that there are plenty of people that will disagree with my opinion.

 

[FunkMetalBass]

My $.02 - and I'm sure that there are plenty of people that will disagree with my opinion.

By disagreeing with your opinion, I am, essentially agreeing with you regarding this statement.

Did we just agree to disagree?

 

[Dark Horse]

Active = life-changing. All the pros use actives, and anyone who says otherwise is not a pro by any definition of the word.

Well, let's see - I make my living playing music, I have major label credits, have major motion picture credits, TV credits, co-wrote a Billboard Top 30 song, etc - and I don't use active electronics.

I guess I'm not a "pro".

So - what is YOUR definition of "pro" ?

Here's the dictionary definition -

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/PROFESSIONAL

Main Entry: 1pro·fes·sion·al
Pronunciation: \prə-ˈfesh-nəl, -ˈfe-shə-nəl\
Function: adjective
Date: 1606

1 a : of, relating to, or characteristic of a profession b : engaged in one of the learned professions c (1) : characterized by or conforming to the technical or ethical standards of a profession (2) : exhibiting a courteous, conscientious, and generally businesslike manner in the workplace
2 a : participating for gain or livelihood in an activity or field of endeavor often engaged in by amateurs <a professional golfer> b : having a particular profession as a permanent career <a professional soldier> c : engaged in by persons receiving financial return <professional football>
3 : following a line of conduct as though it were a profession <a professional patriot>

 

[G00D+~VIBES]

@ DarkH. & and FunkM.

Do I sense a touche in the near future?

 

[Dark Horse]

@ DarkH. & and FunkM.

Do I sense a touche in the near future?

Nah, just "discussin' stuff" !

We're all friends here.

 

[Rocky]

5-string - yes. No pro will be respected with only a 4-string.

Ok, now that I have caught my breath from laughing so hard I have a question for you Funkmetalbass. Ever hear of Jeff Berlin, Bob Babbit, James Jamerson, Carol Kaye, Joe Osborn? All of these people are 4 string players. Would you consider them pros? I think if any of the above mentioned showed up at a session or gig they would get MAJOR respect.

 

[FunkMetalBass]

Well, let's see - I make my living playing music, I have major label credits, have major motion picture credits, TV credits, co-wrote a Billboard Top 30 song, etc - and I don't use active electronics.

I guess I'm not a "pro".

So - what is YOUR definition of "pro" ?

Here's the dictionary definition -

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/PROFESSIONAL

Well, I've never heard of you, therefor, not pro. Besides, active basses > all.

Ok, now that I have caught my breath from laughing so hard I have a question for you Funkmetalbass. Ever hear of Jeff Berlin, Bob Babbit, James Jamerson, Carol Kaye, Joe Osborn? All of these people are 4 string players. Would you consider them pros? I think if any of the above mentioned showed up at a session or gig they would get MAJOR respect.

You have to write good music to be a pro, but to keep personal taste out of this equation, I will not confirm or deny my opinion of the aforementioned musicians' pro-status.




I was mostly kidding with a lot of what I said. I try to make my sarcasm as obvious as possible. The algorithm for my statements was intended to be:

[Subject Header - Colorful agreement]. [Wildly imaginative reason that slightly poked fun at the "pro-ness" of basses]. [Real reason why I agreed with OP's decision in what he wanted out of a bass.]


To actually respond...

Dark Horse: Many active basses have the ability to emulate passive basses, but with much more tonal control. My Spector Legend (passive pups, active pre) can sound very p-bass-esque at times with the right EQing, but then I can switch to a very modern humbucker sound with the turn of a knob. No one is better than the other as it all depends on the musical styling and your tonal preference. I prefer the sound of my active basses, but I will use a passive bass where and when it calls for it.

Rocky: It's all up to preference, but as a bassist, I don't think we should limit ourselves to only 4-strings, especially when the 5th string is so incredibly useful and ever-more prominent in modern music. Sure, you can simply keep two 4's (Heck, Jaco only needed 4 strings!!1!eleventy-one!) in separate tunings to accommodate, but to be opposed to 5-strings for anything other than tone and playability seems a bit asinine to me. I'm not pointing fingers, but I do see that stigma at times. Plus, in a multi-bass collection, varying numbers of strings seems like a logical step.

 

[Dark Horse]

Well, I've never heard of you, therefor, not pro. Besides, active basses > all.

To actually respond...

Dark Horse: Many active basses have the ability to emulate passive basses, but with much more tonal control. My Spector Legend (passive pups, active pre) can sound very p-bass-esque at times with the right EQing, but then I can switch to a very modern humbucker sound with the turn of a knob. No one is better than the other as it all depends on the musical styling and your tonal preference. I prefer the sound of my active basses, but I will use a passive bass where and when it calls for it.

However, "emulating" doesn't not equal "the same".

There are plenty of uses for active electronic equipped basses, and plenty of uses for passives. I personally prefer passives, but again, there are plenty of great basses with actives.

With regards to recording, the vast majority of top level producers and mixers, and certainly the ones I've worked with (Jack Joseph Puig, Neal Avron, Brad Wood, Andrew "Mudrock" Murdock, etc) seem to "prefer" a passive bass. Easier to effectively mix, at least IME.

Still, as I mentioned in my first post in this thread, it's more about the "player" then the "equipment". (and yeah...I know you get that FunkMetal ! )

 

[FunkMetalBass]

With regards to recording, the vast majority of top level producers and mixers, and certainly the ones I've worked with (Jack Joseph Puig, Neal Avron, Brad Wood, Andrew "Mudrock" Murdock, etc) seem to "prefer" a passive bass. Easier to effectively mix, at least IME.

You know, I've heard that before, but I never understood why - a sound signal is a sound signal. Is it just the inherent tonality of the passive pickups sitting better in the mix?

Also, what style(s) of music? Surely that's not a general rule for ALL styles...

 

[Drucifer]

It's not hard to find a used USA G&L L2500 for $750-900 in near new shape that meets every requirement you laid out--pro quality, good studio instrument, active, passive, 5-string. People who know what a G&L is respect them as excellent instruments.

+1 My first modern bass was an L2500, 5 strings and very configurable, two pickups, can get both modern active sound or a traditional passive sounds, very quiet. IMO does okay for slap but I'm more comfortable on my Stingray or Fender Jazz.

You can find used Stingrays in great shape pretty regularly here on Talkbass and on Craigs List and eBay. I bought two in the last year, I had never owned one before.

I paid $700 for this 1999 StingRay on CL (not great shape, but sounds great):
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?p=8182498&highlight=#post8182498

I paid $850 for this 1994 StingRay here on TB:
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=592854&highlight=

 

[Dark Horse]

You know, I've heard that before, but I never understood why - a sound signal is a sound signal. Is it just the inherent tonality of the passive pickups sitting better in the mix?

Mainly because a passive bass typically is "less invasive" on the other instruments EQ space. Narrower bandwidth makes it easier to mix. Typically...

Also, what style(s) of music? Surely that's not a general rule for ALL styles...

I do rock, hard rock (metal, but not super heavy), AAA, country, Newgrass/Bluegrass, Americana, Indie, and Alt / Alt country sessions mostly ( a few other things in the past, like hip hop stuff, blues, soul and such). Just depends on who is paying, whether I like the artist, and more than those reasons, if I think "I" can bring something to the project that will "enhance" it.

Again, I'm simply speaking from my experience. What I say is by no means a "hard and fast rule". I'm sure plenty of people have different opinions and experiences.

 

[Zombbg4]

lakland, G&L, Mtd Kz&heir.

Word. An upgraded (pups/pre) MTD KZ-5 is what's up and can be had for under a grand. Looks pro, sounds pro, plays excellent. Has a boutique vibe for a quarter of the price.

 

[air_leech]

Nobody was "hard on him". People simply said that the "bass" is not part of the "pro" equation. The "player" is. A Fodera doesn't make you a "pro player", just like a SX doesn't make you a "beginner or amateur player".



"For me" being the key words.



For the most part, correct. However, I did a major label album a couple years ago where I played an old Burns bass that had crappy fit and finish, didn't hold tune well, and was only "barely" set up - but it was the perfect tone for the song and the track ended up sounding great.



"Versatility" has nothing to do with a bass being "pro quality". In fact, I (and MANY other pro bassists) would much rather have a few "one trick pony" basses. Basses that do ONE thing remarkably well, instead of trying to be a "jack of all trades". Versatility, in most cases, equals "lots of tones, but none of them great tones".



I play 4 string basses. I make my living making music. I haven't "needed" a 5 string yet. I do occasionally tune the E string don to a drop D, or alternately, if I know the session will require a low B or such, I'll use a 4 string tuned BEAD with larger gauge strings. No big deal. 10 minutes for a string and nut switch.


My $.02 - and I'm sure that there are plenty of people that will disagree with my opinion.

seems like you completely disregarded every idea and disclaimer on my original post to keep the argument alive and display your own opinions as being the right answer.

read again please- everything is in your quotes.
I wrote a pro instrument could have either one tone which fits a handful of genres or one which could has a plethora of sounds to boot.
personally I play Precisions and single pickup Stingrays - these are the tones I like the most and fit all the styles I play IMO but if I was to become a session player my tastes in tones aren't important, I'll need a swiss army knife of a bass that gets what the customer asks for and thats why if the OP is looking for one bass to cover all the grounds his Epiphone Viola and P with flats don't cover he should get something versatile as that is the PROFESSIONAL thing to do.

 

[Dark Horse]

seems like you completely disregarded every idea and disclaimer on my original post to keep the argument alive and display your own opinions as being the right answer.

read again please- everything is in your quotes.
I wrote a pro instrument could have either one tone which fits a handful of genres or one which could has a plethora of sounds to boot.
personally I play Precisions and single pickup Stingrays - these are the tones I like the most and fit all the styles I play IMO but if I was to become a session player my tastes in tones aren't important, I'll need a swiss army knife of a bass that gets what the customer asks for and thats why if the OP is looking for one bass to cover all the grounds his Epiphone Viola and P with flats don't cover he should get something versatile as that is the PROFESSIONAL thing to do.

Read again - I didn't "disregard" ANYTHING you said. I simply stated that the key words were "for me". All that says is that people have differing opinions. Yours differs from mine in some ways, that's all.

As far as the "professional" thing to do, my opinion is that you do the best job in getting the sound and feel that the client wants. In my experiences, this usually involves a "one trick pony" bass, but again - that is "my" experience, and yours can certainly differ.

I didn't realize that anyone was "arguing". I simply thought we were discussing basses and presenting our individual opinions on them.

I also made it a point - many times in this thread - to mention that my "opinion" is just that - an "opinion" that is based on my personal experience.

 

[Nivlem]

Hey people, thanks for all the responses. I do agree that it's the player not the equipment. The "pro" thing was a bit tongue in cheek -- more about how an instrument is sometimes perceived as "pro" or "non-pro" by the non-bassists doing the hiring. Sorry if that wasn't 100% clear in the original post.

However: there is definitely a trend towards active / 5 string / 24 frets in the last (20?) years, so as long as I'm getting a new bass, might as well go with the flow. Probably won't give me an edge when applying to join a band, but who knows...

Dark Horse: The point about active vs passive is well taken; so is your point about one trick ponies vs excessive versatility. I guess what I'm looking for is a modern/slap-pop one trick pony then. Definitely not a Burns

Thanks again for the recommendations -- some brands & models I hadn't thought about; will have to do some more research here...

 

[Demonator]

Even the pros may use cheaper basses and equipment. Serj Tankian played every instrument on his solo album (not live obviously) and he used first act. Point being brand doesnt make the player expertise does. It doesnt even matter how long youve been playing, years of practice can make a difference but its what you do and accomplish in those years that make the pro.

 

[Robs1887]

Even the pros may use cheaper basses and equipment. Serj Tankian played every instrument on his solo album (not live obviously) and he used first act. Point being brand doesnt make the player expertise does. It doesnt even matter how long youve been playing, years of practice can make a difference but its what you do and accomplish in those years that make the pro.

If I heard that Kermit the Frog was recording an album I'd give him cheap gear too.

 

[air_leech]

Read again - I didn't "disregard" ANYTHING you said. I simply stated that the key words were "for me". All that says is that people have differing opinions. Yours differs from mine in some ways, that's all.

As far as the "professional" thing to do, my opinion is that you do the best job in getting the sound and feel that the client wants. In my experiences, this usually involves a "one trick pony" bass, but again - that is "my" experience, and yours can certainly differ.

I didn't realize that anyone was "arguing". I simply thought we were discussing basses and presenting our individual opinions on them.

I also made it a point - many times in this thread - to mention that my "opinion" is just that - an "opinion" that is based on my personal experience.

ok then.

again, read what I wrote and you'll find out we have the same opinion - I mainly play a P with flats and thats a one-tone-does-it-all bass for me.
same goes for my Rays (single pup, 2 band pre), I like to keep it simple and have one tone I like, plug & play style and they don't sound out of place to me in any musical genre I played them on.

however, the op already has a P and asked for something modern so instead of telling him what I like I told him what would be a good choice to suit his needs.
I don't know what styles you play and under what circumstances but if you play with a band you have artistic freedom which a hired gun bassist isn't going to have, he is going to have a producer demand a certain tone and he should have the tools (alongside the technique, theory and musical ideas) to come up with a bass track that makes the customer happy. this is harder to do than working regularly with the same musicians or within the borders of a defined genre.

 

[Dark Horse]

Hey people, thanks for all the responses. I do agree that it's the player not the equipment. The "pro" thing was a bit tongue in cheek -- more about how an instrument is sometimes perceived as "pro" or "non-pro" by the non-bassists doing the hiring. Sorry if that wasn't 100% clear in the original post.

However: there is definitely a trend towards active / 5 string / 24 frets in the last (20?) years, so as long as I'm getting a new bass, might as well go with the flow. Probably won't give me an edge when applying to join a band, but who knows...

Dark Horse: The point about active vs passive is well taken; so is your point about one trick ponies vs excessive versatility. I guess what I'm looking for is a modern/slap-pop one trick pony then. Definitely not a Burns

Thanks again for the recommendations -- some brands & models I hadn't thought about; will have to do some more research here...

That's a good way to approach things and narrow the field a bit.

I would think that if you are looking for an active bass, the aforementioned G&Ls, Laklands, Fenders, etc would all be good choices. The best thing is to get as many different basses in your hands and try them to see how they work for YOU - even things that may be a bit above of below your price range, or models/brands that you may not have considered before. The bass that is most comfortable to YOU might be a Ibanez 5 string, or is could be a 1952 Fender P Bass. The key is that it is comfortable for you to play and can get the sound(s) you like.

It can sometimes help to "narrow things down" a bit with threads like these - just remember that "sometimes" you'll find yourself comfortable with a bass that you never would have considered originally.

Your opinion is more important than mine or anyone elses (including prospective band mates!) with regards to your bass choice.

Have a great day !



OH - BTW - I just happened to think of this - a great sounding and playing bass that you can sometimes find "dirt cheap" are the Peavey G Basses. The Cirrus basses are really nice too.