Can this Band be Saved / Changed?

[dasherf17]

We have a gig this weekend, a Christmas party, in a nice event center so I'm hoping that some of the issues from the last gig will have resolved or at least diminished.

If the subject was brought up, maybe...I hope so...have a good gig, PRI! Let us know how it went...

 

[mutethatguitar]

Ha! I have been there. Not for a nearly 2 decade stretch but I can only echo other replies....

Time to start your own project.

IF it is not too soul sucking to continue working with your current group stay the course and refocus on your own material. I base my reply on my own experience and others. Good luck

 

[ezra1]

17 years is a long time ...there is a lot of things that you are not happy with.
That ship may have sailed

 

[Aceman]

First off, I’ve been in this band for 17 years, so these issues aren't new. It's just that at one time I was up as many as five bands, so what any one band was doing didn't really bother me that much, since I had other outlets. That has changed now.

Anyway...we’re a blues based band. We play a lot of fun and cool gigs, like festivals and private events, but we also play bars and clubs. When we play festivals we mostly play the BL’s original songs. When we play bars we play mostly covers. My issue, really, is about what we do on those gigs where we play mostly covers, because we are not being as successful at those gigs (1) as other bands are, and (2) as we could, in my opinion, be.

Problem One: Many of our covers songs, while not “blues” per se, are treated like blues songs. Many are of the I-IV-V format and feature lots of guitar solos. There are two guitarists in the band and both of them love to play solos. And that works when you only do it occasionally. With us, though, songs like “Pink Cadillac” and “Keep your Hands to Yourself” become blues rave ups. I have tried to suggest newer songs that are not I-IV-V and feature actual parts rather than solos and jamming but the BL says that they don’t fit into our format.

Problem Two: The music that our LG plays through the PA when we take a break is always some kind of blues. Now, I like blues, but I get tired of anything after a while. So, between the actual blues that we play, and the cover songs that we play that sound like blues, and the blues that’s played on our breaks, that’s a LOT of blues. Too much blues for a general non-blues bar going crowd, in my opinion.

Problem Three: The LG will not play signature parts on songs. I don’t know if its laziness or not caring or thinking it doesn’t matter. Example, the signature intro lick to “Tennessee Whiskey “ by Chris Stapleton. To me it isn’t a difficult part but should be there and he doesn’t play it. On other songs like “La Grange” he just jams on the solos. No signature licks. Okay, I guess, but getting the feel of the original would be better.

Problem Four: Dress on stage. Last week we played at a private club. The BL was wearing jeans, T-shirt and a camo cap. Drummer wearing jeans, t-shirt, and cap. LG wearing some kind of stretchy loose pants that looked like sweat pants but not exactly. I was slightly more dressy in jeans, nice Henley with undershirt and pork pie hat. I think they all looked like they just showed up to play wearing what they happened to be wearing when they got off the tractor. Now they all dress up more for SOME gigs, although the BL has really gotten slack about dress compared to how he used to dress. I see videos of bands that are playing the same venues that we play who have obviously dressed up for playing. We don’t. Does a band’s look matter?

If it was MY band and it was my decision on how to proceed this is what I would propose:

1. Learn newer and non-blues like songs, including some modern country.

2. Don’t play blues on breaks. Either let the venue play the music they like or play a mixture of classic rock and country, or a mixture of songs that everyone knows.

3. Take the time to learn and play the signature licks of songs. They are just as important as singing the right words, in my opinion.

4. Dress for the gig. A.K.A. dress for success. Most folks who go out to a bar for an evening of drinking, dancing, and listening to music dress up. Why shouldn’t the band?

So, my question is, what should I do. Here are the choices”

1. Take the issues to the band and hope that they will embrace my ideas and be willing to chance a few things to improve the band.

2. Keep my trap shut and learn to accept things the way they are, while gently pushing on the issues in a more subtle way, i.e. keep suggesting new songs of a non blues genre without explaining why.

3. Look for another band that is already doing the things I think should be done.

Thanks for listening and for your thoughts!

Oh man...you hit ALL my trigger buttons!!!! I'll be back for response later....

 

[Kevin Colt]

it appears that you have two choices here. 1) be happy you have a steady paying gig and distance yourself from the boredom of the three chord nonsense. after that many years, these guys will not change for you or anyone else. 2) call it a day and leave. with that much experience under your belt, you should have no trouble finding a band that plays a more challenging repertoire. sometimes you have to tear yourself down and rebuild to become better at what you do. just my opinion, you know what those are worth. lol. good luck.

 

[newtonbassist]

If they let you get away with wearing a pork pie hat for 17 years I would be hesitant about jumping ship

 

[dasherf17]

it appears that you have two choices here. 1) be happy you have a steady paying gig and distance yourself from the boredom of the three chord nonsense. after that many years, these guys will not change for you or anyone else. 2) call it a day and leave. with that much experience under your belt, you should have no trouble finding a band that plays a more challenging repertoire. sometimes you have to tear yourself down and rebuild to become better at what you do. just my opinion, you know what those are worth. lol. good luck.

(...this should be the final answer...)

 

[51PRI]

If they let you get away with wearing a pork pie hat for 17 years I would be hesitant about jumping ship

Well, I haven't worn the same hat for 17 years

 

[51PRI]

If the subject was brought up, maybe...I hope so...have a good gig, PRI! Let us know how it went...

The gig has been cancelled due to the effects from the devastating storms that came through the SE United States last night.

 

[Aceman]

OK - I'm back: Band Rage ACTIVATED!!!

Problem One: Many of our covers songs, while not “blues” per se, are treated like blues songs.

- It works if you are a blues band, playing blues venues, and REALLY working it up. If not - get on the audience page and play it like it is supposed to be. Nothing wrong with "Van Halen-izing" songs. Make it your own and own it! But for a standard pop variety gig....no. But no one needs half a set of decent pop/rock tunes to become rave up blues jams.

Problem Two: The music that our LG plays through the PA when we take a break is always some kind of blues.

- Again...unless AT the blues club, DO NOT do this. Break it up, play something that will a) give other people a break from blues b) have everyone else ready for you to be back.


Problem Three: The LG will not play signature parts on songs. I don’t know if its laziness or not caring or thinking it doesn’t matter. “Tennessee Whiskey “ / “La Grange”

- Tennessee Whiskey - oh hell no. Not only is the lick, but the tremolo effect are both signature to that! I'd tell him to play it the way it is supposed to be, and then slap him like a little B!&%^$ like he deserves if he didn't. As for La Grange, man, that is staple blues stuff and buried in the mix. But it ends on a pretty distinctive lick! Again - if you are Van-Halenizing something....nothing is sacred. But otherwise it had better be right. Some songs REQUIRE it unless you are special, and I don't mean special ed. Others can be partials, and some merely "in the style of" but know the signature licks and solos!!!

Problem Four: Dress on stage.

- As always, you are there to ENTERTAIN. People go to SEE the band. They should know you are in the band even when you are not on stage. It looks professional and gets people to think "Cool" instead of "What slacker band is this?" out of the gate.

Here are my personal examples of all three things in my band - an 80's hair metal tribute, and I'll give another example in a country band:

1. We actually are gonna do hair metal Jingle Bells and Santa Claus etc this week. Why? People want to see hair metal. But if a pop gig - we'd do it right. In a country bar, you can do a country version of AC/DC You Shook Me. But any other place, that is a straight up rock song.

2. During breaks we play pop 80's - not Whitesnake. In the country band you might play really old country, or classic Americana or whatever.

3. The solo to Talk Dirty To ME is the sol. Period. every damn note. Same with Rock You Like a Hurricane. The first half of sweet child is note-for - note...but I take some liberties and play "in the style of slash during a lot of E pentatonic wankery. I play the entire solo to high way to hell "In the style of AC/DC". But even that is played in the right zones. No country example here. You get the point. Some people know all of, some you know some of, and some is just wankery that no one remembers (<= those are the ones where you can have fun).

4. For us, Spandex, acid wash denim, appropriate shirts and accessories. For country, snazzy cowboy attire. Not jeans and a flannel with a baseball cap!

BE the professional people expect to see!

 

[El Güero]

Problem Three: The LG will not play signature parts on songs. I don’t know if its laziness or not caring or thinking it doesn’t matter. “Tennessee Whiskey “ / “La Grange”

If the LG has disregarded signature licks for 17 years, I wouldn't expect him to start playing them now.

 

[P. Aaron]

Successful cover bands offer a Halloween grab bag of audio candy. They get-in, and get-out. Some dance grooves one may be able to extend for a bit by reading the room...but usually, by the 3 minute mark, the band should be planning that song's exit. And on to the next song, another crowd favorite with that catchy opening lick or phrase that takes you back to the first time you heard it.

A well-known blues tune here or there sure, but chicks just aren't into guitar solos. Just count how many babes are at a Joe Satriani concert. And that ain't a knock on Joe. It's just the way it is!



A successful cover band is NOT a jam session. It's an entertainment offering for the listening pleasure of the audience.

 

[Aceman]

Successful cover bands offer a Halloween grab bag of audio candy. They get-in, and get-out. Some dance grooves one may be able to extend for a bit by reading the room...but usually, by the 3 minute mark, the band should be planning that song's exit. And on to the next song, another crowd favorite with that catchy opening lick or phrase that takes you back to the first time you heard it.

A well-known blues tune here or there sure, but chicks just aren't into guitar solos. Just count how many babes are at a Joe Satriani concert. And that ain't a knock on Joe. It's just the way it is!



A successful cover band is NOT a jam session. It's an entertainment offering for the listening pleasure of the audience.

Chics dig guitar solos when they are in the context of Bon Jovi, Poison, Whitesnake, and Def Leppard songs...

But again; NOT dance songs, played at a dance club for a dance crowd. And they are certainly not rambling blues explorations.

 

[P. Aaron]

Chics dig guitar solos when they are in the context of Bon Jovi, Poison, Whitesnake, and Def Leppard songs...

But again; NOT dance songs, played at a dance club for a dance crowd. And they are certainly not rambling blues explorations.

Most cover bands use a buffet approach to reaching an audience and every cover band I've been in has ran the rack on top 20, 30, 40 hits of a given era or whatever songs remain universally popular. There's more than one way to be a decent or even great cover band. Many times, it's a regional thing too. What goes over in metro Detroit may be vastly different to what works in Dallas/Fort Worth.

 

[Aceman]

This really speaks to regular message you see in a lot of posts:

Self-focus and disregard for the venue & the audience

The MAJORITY of all gigs - The CUSTOMER is the bar owner. They are buying ENHANCED ATTENDANCE and DRINK BUYING.

The audience expects ENTERTAINMENT. Any 100 people will have a very different definition of what that means.

I like the 90% squared rule: 90% of the audience had better like 90% of the songs played at any given moment. That means knowing any given song is going to be enjoyed by 81% of the audience. That gives you 19% to goof around with and be self indulgent.

Or you can take the artistic high road. A great approach. Just understand that the road to the top is littered with dead bodies. And you are likely to become of them. If you choose that path - no complaints.

 

[P. Aaron]

This really speaks to regular message you see in a lot of posts:

Self-focus and disregard for the venue & the audience

The MAJORITY of all gigs - The CUSTOMER is the bar owner. They are buying ENHANCED ATTENDANCE and DRINK BUYING.

The audience expects ENTERTAINMENT. Any 100 people will have a very different definition of what that means.

I like the 90% squared rule: 90% of the audience had better like 90% of the songs played at any given moment. That means knowing any given song is going to be enjoyed by 81% of the audience. That gives you 19% to goof around with and be self indulgent.

Or you can take the artistic high road. A great approach. Just understand that the road to the top is littered with dead bodies. And you are likely to become of them. If you choose that path - no complaints.

This^^^ and...
Band members that forget what their job is and try to be as much of the party as the patrons, instead of being part of the hospitality patrons should get.

 

[pepj]

A really good blues band only survives if the gtrs are really good.
Its got to hit the mark and crowds need to be getting better, but I'd say that after 2 years max on this point alone.
Bands get tired and even if ppl dont know exactly why, if they stop coming, you are done.

 

[51PRI]

A really good blues band only survives if the gtrs are really good.
Its got to hit the mark and crowds need to be getting better, but I'd say that after 2 years max on this point alone.
Bands get tired and even if ppl dont know exactly why, if they stop coming, you are done.

Well, we played at the same place last night, and with the same issues. I spoke to the drummer briefly about playing some newer songs. We talked about a few songs that the venue was playing while we were setting up. So, I may bring up my ideas if and when the band has a rehearsal. I don't thing the guitarists will be interested, though. We had a good 5 or more minute guitar battle on one song. We didn't have a good crowd and didn't hold the crowd we had. My feeling is that I'm just going to have to accept things as they are and not worry much about it,awhile looking at other opportunities.

 

[pepj]

I kind of take a poor view if people dont want or sometimes accept my input. It makes me feel not invested.
If that becomes the norm, I start to care even less and we are getting into a bad position. If I cant be bothered, why continue to bother.

 

[BlueTalon]

Well, we played at the same place last night, and with the same issues. I spoke to the drummer briefly about playing some newer songs. We talked about a few songs that the venue was playing while we were setting up. So, I may bring up my ideas if and when the band has a rehearsal. I don't thing the guitarists will be interested, though. We had a good 5 or more minute guitar battle on one song. We didn't have a good crowd and didn't hold the crowd we had. My feeling is that I'm just going to have to accept things as they are and not worry much about it,awhile looking at other opportunities.

You desperately need to find another band as quickly as you can. This one is choking the life out of you.

I believe that the moment you drop this band -- give them notice that you are done, and mean it, and be completely out of it (no sub gigs, no going to see them play, etc.) -- you'll feel a weight lifted and be able to breath easier.