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Can You Tell The Difference??? ASH vs. ALDER

WHICH IS ALDER? WHICH IS ASH?

  • 1-A and 2-A are Alder, 1-B and 2-B are Ash.

    Votes: 17 15.7%

  • 1-A and 2-A are Ash, 1-B and 2-B are Alder.

    Votes: 48 44.4%

  • I can hear a difference between the "1" recordings, but not the "2" recordings

    Votes: 16 14.8%

  • I can hear a difference between the "2" recordings, but not the "1" recordings

    Votes: 3 2.8%

  • I can't hear a difference between any of them!

    Votes: 24 22.2%
  • Total voters
    108
#481
GroovinOnFunk said:
Yeah, the EB Bongo is made of basswood... and I would say it's a pretty decent ax :bassist:. And I would definitely say that basswood is one of the crappier kinds of wood that is commonly used for basses. :hiding:

As for me, I'm about to get an Alder body bass with a Maple fingerboard. I foresee this being a great combination of snappy and bright from the maple with a hint of warmth from the alder.
Click to expand...

The absolutely best bass I've ever played is basswood.
 
#483
unclejane said:
Nice - this is exactly what I was after. Now let me ask _how_ you know this to be true.
Click to expand...
as i said earlier, after building 100's, owning 100's and servicing/restoring 1000's of them, anyone with a decent ear starts to notice that there's an obvious pattern developing.


unclejane said:
- What wood is associated with what tone? I.e. for each wood, what exactly is the effect on the tone?
Click to expand...

i've said this alot of times already, but i'll say it again (and my observation will never change):
swamp ash is generally more resonant, has more mids, and mid bass.
alder is more scooped sounding, has less mids with a little more thud and fundamental.
this also held true with all of the telecasters and stratocasters that i've built for guitarists.

unclejane said:
- Can you demonstrate the tonewood effect with your basses (keeping in mind the forgoing discussion about controlling for other variables that might affect the tone inadvertently, the magnitude of the tone shaping, repeatability, etc).

If the effect is real as you say, this should be a trivial no-brainer for you to demonstrate.
LS
Click to expand...

i do not feel the need or desire to, so i'm not going there. sorry. if you feel that it somehow disproves or negates my observations, sobeit. it doesn't matter to me in the least. and IMO, nothing is a 'no brainer' when it comes to posting examples of sound clips, as this thread (as well as previous others) has clearly demonstrated.
 
#485
This is a great thread, Dan. I could hear a difference between the A clips and thought that 1A was probably Ash, I didn't notice anything discernible with the B clips...you got me there!

What I find most interesting is the reactions that you are getting. I am one who for YEARS has thought the same thing...in a live situation no one can tell, least of all the audience.

I find it funny that bass players talk about hearing the differences between bent plate bridges and rolled saddle bridges and other "parts" which make up the sum of a basses sound...I read in a Nordstrand thread about a year and a half ago about guys lamenting which bridge they should go with...I have been playing bass for 32 years and have never had someone come up to me after a gig and ask what kind of bridge was on my bass...I have never had anyone mention the tone of the body wood, or fretboard...no one ever commented on the electronics. What people comment on is how it all comes together...the band. Does the band sound good?

As bass players it is our job to play the gear that works ergonomically with our bodies, and sounds good in our musical situations. Our gear needs to fit into the roll we are playing. If I were to play a gig with a lucite bass that sounded like crap, I would be doing a dis-service to the music and the band. I opt for basses that sound like a bass should...solid lows, a midrange that does not get too nasally and highs that are crisp but not brittle. If I bring that recipe to 90% of the musical situations that I have ever been asked to play in, I am doing my part and working towards the betterment of the songs.

I could care less if it's ash, alder or basswood. Does the bass have the fundamentals I look for? Will it work in my group and other groups that I may be asked to play in? As long as the tools I have meet that criteria, I am good.

Thanks!
 
#486
johnk_10 said:
i've said this alot of times already, but i'll say it again (and my observation will never change):
swamp ash is generally more resonant, has more mids, and mid bass.
alder is more scooped sounding, has less mids with a little more thud and fundamental.
this also held true with all of the telecasters and stratocasters that i've built for guitarists.
Click to expand...
Super. A couple questions off the bat tho:
- how does this square with Dan's experiment in which no such difference was detectable with these two woods? (i.e. why did Dan's example fail?)
- is this a consensus finding among all bass luthiers? If there's disagreement, what is it?

i do not feel the need or desire to, so i'm not going there. sorry. if you feel that it somehow disproves or negates my observations, sobeit. it doesn't matter to me in the least. and IMO, nothing is a 'no brainer' when it comes to posting examples of sound clips, as this thread (as well as previous others) has clearly demonstrated.
Click to expand...

Then I'm forced to reject your claim that you _know_ the tonewood effect is real. I could use harsher language than that, but as a matter of simple respect I'm simply going to say that in fact you most likely do not _know_ the effect is real. You may _believe_ it's real, but you've not demonstrated that it _is_ real.

As was discussed at length in the thread, if it's a real effect it shouldn't be just a matter of individual interpretation - reality is not just a strongly held opinion.

LS
 
#487
unclejane said:
Then I'm forced to reject your claim that you _know_ the tonewood effect is real. I could use harsher language than that, but as a matter of simple respect I'm simply going to say that in fact you most likely do not _know_ the effect is real. You may _believe_ it's real, but you've not demonstrated that it _is_ real.
LS
Click to expand...

that's absolutely fine with me. that is 100% YOUR (IMO, inexperienced) opinion, and i could care less whatever that may be, and feel no need to 'hold your hand' and explain it to you any further. :rollno:

and by the way, i'm not going to try and tell you (or anyone else) whether you should believe in god or not, or vote republican or democrat either.
 
#489
- how does this square with Dan's experiment in which no such difference was detectable with these two woods? (i.e. why did Dan's example fail?)

I feel like putting my head through a wall when I see this....

LOTS of people could tell a DIFFERENCE when there were in fact TWO different basses were BEING used... is that so freakin hard for people to see?
 
#490
unclejane said:
Super. A couple questions off the bat tho..........................
LS
Click to expand...

i've answered your questions, so how about i ask you a few? (and please be honest).

how many jazz basses have you built using ash and alder bodies?
how many have you restored/serviced?
how many have you owned?
 
#492
I get tired of these types of discussions insofar as I think that some folks are just anal retentive micro-managing control freaks when it comes to their instruments. Danelectros are made of masonite and/or plywood. Dave Jacques plays a Dano and it sounds quite fantastic. All my favorite artists play a variety of basses made of a variety of woods. I don't care what they're made of. My bass is made of **GASP** basswood. I think it sounds great as do my bandmates, the audience and recording engineers. I, like Dan, think that the wood makes only a very small difference when contrasted with things like pickups/strings/playing technique (ESPECIALLY in a mix)

Kirk out...
 
#493
johnk_10 said:
i've answered your questions, so how about i ask you a few? (and please be honest).

how many jazz basses have you built using ash and alder bodies?
how many have you restored/serviced?
how many have you owned?
Click to expand...

If differences in tone based on wood type are truly present and provable, then experience or lack of would have no bearing on the outcome. If something can be proven true, then experience (either for or against) is meaningless. Experience only comes into play when establishing evidence towards a belief.

I believe that woods make a difference in tone based on all my experience. But as I know that difference hasn't been proven true as of yet, my belief is just that- a belief. There could be a million trees out there whose sonic properties are totally different from what I would have normally assigned them.
 
#494
my point wasn't whether it was provable or not, (which i personally think that it is). my point was that you can't make a determination unless you've played intimately and/or built lots of them, in order to get a large sample size to make a more accurate evaluation/perspective. IMO, basing a recording test on just one or two basses of each wood type wood wouldn't yield the pattern of what's going on tone-wise any way near as well as 100's of them would.
 
#497
Alright , I got only one answer from this post . But as I'm still reading people claiming that wood doesn't have any effect on tone I post it again , these clips are from a guy nicknamed Eberbach who ownes two basses , the same one twice , but one of them has an ash body.

Warwick(J/J) corvette ash :
fingerstyle :Invalid Link Removed

Slap : Invalid Link Removed

Warwick corvette(J/J) bubinga :

fingerstyle : Invalid Link Removed

Slap : Invalid Link Removed

Do you hear a difference ? I do definitely hear one.
 
#498
Once again, I hear a difference but it's not huge. Based on the finger style clips I prefer the bubinga but I think the ash could be made to sound like that with a little eq tweak and/or compression.
I'm wondering about simply measuring the resonance of various pieces of wood. What if pieces of identical dimension but different species were struck with a mechanical mallet of some sort and the resulting tone recorded and measured? That could tell us about the tone of the wood. Of course we'd have to use multiple examples of each species etc. We could also measure the actual density of each piece to see if there was any direct correlation between that and the tonal response. Then, once we had determined how different the resonance of various species were we could go about trying to measure how much that influences the sound of an electric bass when used for a body and how much when used for a neck etc. I wouldn't be surprised if it made a bigger difference in a larger (or more massive) instrument, for example a Les Paul shape vs a Steinberger or a 6 string vs a 4 string.
 

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