Can You Tell The Difference??? ASH vs. ALDER

[Bryan R. Tyler]

I find it easy to tell the tonal differences between basses made of the same or different woods. I learned how through experience. Those who can't either haven't learned how or simply don't have the ability. We all have different talents.

The point is that experience alone means nothing when it comes to proof- it can only supply evidence and uphold a belief. As I've said, I believe that tonewoods make a difference in sound, but as I can't prove it, I'm certainly not going to suggest that others who do not hear it or think that they make no difference at all are either inexperienced or have bad ears. There are lots of guys out there who swear they hear a difference in tone between properly made speaker and line level cables, etc. based on their experience and their ears, when the reality is that any differences are inaudible to humans. People put far too much stock in their own experience, and I certainly could be one of those people, so I try to keep an open mind about it.

 

[unclejane]

I find it easy to tell the tonal differences between basses made of the same or different woods. I learned how through experience. Those who can't either haven't learned how or simply don't have the ability. We all have different talents.

K, let's try again. Compare/contrast these two questions:

Do you have to "learn by experience" to distinguish colors (I don't mean learning their names, but simply the ability to distinguish them)? Or understand that the earth is round? Or understand that the sun gives off heat?

Do you have to "learn by experience" to feel the presence of god, or to distinguish the tonewood effect?

What's the difference between the two experiences here?

LS

 

[mongo2]

The point is that experience alone means nothing when it comes to proof- it can only supply evidence and uphold a belief. As I've said, I believe that tonewoods make a difference in sound, but as I can't prove it, I'm certainly not going to suggest that others who do not hear it or think that they make no difference at all are either inexperienced or have bad ears. There are lots of guys out there who swear they hear a difference in tone between properly made speaker and line level cables, etc. based on their experience and their ears, when the reality is that any differences are inaudible to humans. People put far too much stock in their own experience, and I certainly could be one of those people, so I try to keep an open mind about it.

My point is that since there's no way to actually prove it, they should try to experience it for themsleves.

I don't have the ability to hear the difference between alkaline and carbon batteries though I have tried to experience it. However, I don't discount those who say they can out of hand or try to bludgeon them with demands for proof.

 

[lomo]

i really couldn't care less. IMO, those that need proof wouldn't be able to tell the difference anyway.

I guess only a fool needs proof or evidence, but you guys who just "know" don't have to bother with it. Now I understand. Have a nice day.

 

[mongo2]

Do you have to "learn by experience" to feel the presence of god,

Why the fascination with god? It's the second time you mentioned it.

 

[KingRazor]

Or understand that the earth is round?

The only way you could even know that the Earth was round would be to have someone tell you, or to discover it yourself through experience. Bad example.

 

[unclejane]

I don't have the ability to hear the difference between alkaline and carbon batteries though I have tried to experience it. However, I don't discount those who say they can out of hand or try to bludgeon them with demands for proof.

Well there's your problem. You should - that's the equivalent of someone telling you that magical elves sit on their shoulders and tell them life's secrets, that you should believe them just based on their honest-injun word AND your actually submitting to them and believing it.

The technical term for this is "faith", the colloquialism for it is "dining on stupid".

Again, it's the difference between knowing and simply believing. These are not equivalent states of mind.

All this applies to the tonewood claim as well...

LS

 

[unclejane]

The only way you could even know that the Earth was round would be to have someone tell you, or to discover it yourself through experience. Bad example.

No - there's a distinct difference between the methodology by which one might discover the world is round and discover that magical elves exist. The difference is crucial and relevant to the TW debate. I'll leave it to you as an exercise to figure out what that difference is.

LS

 

[mongo2]

Well there's your problem. You should - that's the equivalent of someone telling you that magical elves sit on their shoulders and tell them life's secrets, that you should believe them just based on their honest-injun word AND your actually submitting to them and believing it.

The technical term for this is "faith", the colloquialism for it is "dining on stupid".

Again, it's the difference between knowing and simply believing. These are not equivalent states of mind.

All this applies to the tonewood claim as well...

LS

Resorting to insults...how noble.

Disussing this further is no longer worth the electrons. Bye.

 

[johnk_10]

K, let's try again................

Do you have to "learn by experience" to distinguish colors.............(?)

LS

no, but you do have to have experience and not be color blind in order to duplicate them when color matching, unless you use a spectrometer which won't always allow for the color once the paint has cured.

 

[KingRazor]

No - there's a distinct difference between the methodology by which one might discover the world is round and discover that magical elves exist. The difference is crucial and relevant to the TW debate. I'll leave it to you as an exercise to figure out what that difference is.

LS

I understand that, but you would still have to do some research for yourself to come to that conclusion, or just believe what the scientists say about it.

All you have to do to know the sun is warm is just...stand outside.

 

[johnk_10]

I guess only a fool needs proof or evidence, but you guys who just "know" don't have to bother with it. Now I understand. Have a nice day.

'BS blanket statement alert'.

 

[unclejane]

no, but you do have to have experience and not be color blind in order to duplicate them when color matching, unless you use a spectrometer which won't always allow for the color once the paint has cured.

But you see what the difference is between that kind of experience and an experience of, say, magic elves on your shoulder telling you what to do, right?

This is crucial.

LS

 

[-=DanAtkinson=-]

This is absurd. You'd think we were debating religion or something. For Pete's sake...let's try to put our egos and insecurities aside.

 

[unclejane]

I understand that, but you would still have to do some research for yourself to come to that conclusion, or just believe what the scientists say about it.

Yes to the former, but a definite no to the latter. In fact, you don't actually have to just take the scientist's word for it. But you apparently _do_ have to take a tonewood advocate's word for it, as john_k has insisted over and over to me for example.

It should be obvious why in both cases..

LS

 

[johnk_10]

if it makes you feel any better, i don't believe in magical elves sitting on people's shoulders. not that i wouldn't like to.

but if somehow one did actually materialize and was sitting on my shoulder, how would i be able to prove it? would taking his picture or posting a sound clip of him talking prove it?

 

[KingRazor]

But you see what the difference is between that kind of experience and an experience of, say, magic elves on your shoulder telling you what to do, right?

This is crucial.

LS

Really odd example, I wouldn't compare that to this experiment or Johnk's claims at all.

If the whole magical elf on your shoulder thing was a common belief that is accepted by a lot of people, it would make more sense.

But I agree with Dan, this is getting ridiculous. This forum is about basses, not about faith, religion, or magical elves.

 

[Swift713]

I believe there is empirical evidence that these two species of wood have different effects on the tone of the instrument. It doesn't prove anything but it sure sounds different to me.

 

[unclejane]

if it makes you feel any better, i don't believe in magical elves sitting on people's shoulders. not that i wouldn't like to.

Why not?

but if somehow one did actually materialize and was sitting on my shoulder, how would i be able to prove it? tkae his picture or post a sound clip of him talking?

... now you're catching on...

LS

 

[lomo]

'BS blanket statement alert'.

Sir, one of us is spraying statements that are devoid of logic. I'm sure you believe it is me. Sorry for that. Believe what you like and kindly leave me alone.