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Can't get a good deep bass tone

#21
vail_bass said:
Yes, 200-250 is the evil frequency! ;-)
Muted attack of the flatwound would need MORE compression, since it is biased toward a heavy attack and NO sustain.
I'm trying to help this guy out. You obviously already have the sound you want.
Too much signal processing takes the magic out of the players hands and gives it to the engineer. Your choice;
I'm a musician and an engineer, so I have an objective perspective.
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I think we're going to have to agree to disagree here, mate. My experience with flats clearly differs greatly from yours. That kinda sucks, because they fill a great tonal niche if you have the right feel for 'em. You definitely can't play the same way you do with rounds, though.

That being said, though, this is the recording gear sub-forum. We're not talking about the magic of bass here. We're talking about engineering and production. So take off the "processing makes me sound like a robot" hat, put on the "where the hell is my LA-2A?" hat, and think outside the box for a bit. There's more than one way to skin a cat, they say. What calls for rounds and a 250Hz cut for you, might be flats and a 350Hz bump for me. You never know!
 
#23
vtbass-63390a3f636edb5ff7918f251d859224.jpg
 
#24
mambo4 said:
Another tidibit about EQing a "fat" bass tone:

I discovered a years ago that if I wanted a good, fat, articulate bass tone -a tone where the notes I was playing really jumped out- that simply cranking the "bass " knob never did the trick.

when I got an amp with a parametric mid EQ, I discovered that by boosting the low mids (somewhere 250-500 hz) I got a nice, warm, fundamental friendly bass tone.

YMMV
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Yes!
 
#25
Check the video still at 4:59 for some more clues.

Looks like a B15NC in the video, but I don't see a mic. Definitely see a cable running into the input. Probably taking a line out of the B15? Also looks like just to the left of the amp there is some sort of signal processor. Who knows.

From what I can find out, Tracy Wormworth was playing a Sadowsky bass in 2007. She pops up on their website holding the same bass. Looks like an active (notice 4 tone control knobs) jazz style bass. When I listen closely with headphones, every once in a while I detect some fingers-on-rounds sound. If you check out some live videos of Tracy's performances around the same time, definitely sound like rounds. You can catch some of her right and left hand technique in the video. Looks like very light touch over the neck pickup and very deliberate and clean left hand movements.

Not saying a passive P with flats and some technique couldn't get you there, but might be easier with a high-end active jazz with a boost of big booty and a B15/direct mix.

Honestly, I don't really know anything. But she sounds good!
 
#28
rp911 said:
but I can't get the deep fat tone I'm craving. It's the solid low end I want to hear, that the whole band can just sit on top of.
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[Invalid or Expired Link Removed] makes miracles in a recording just the way you describe it. Turning the bass knob on it to 9-10 o'clock is enough. It is that easy.

EDIT: Here we go, the bassist in that clip plays Sadowsky bass.. ;) The Sadowsky DI/preamp is the cheaper option to get 90% of this result.

Check 4:48 here
 
#31
Just want to add what the original conversation left unsaid: that thick bass tone in the Joan Osborne cuts is possible only b/c the tones on the keys, guitars, and drums leave that space for the bass to be articulate in the low mids with a touch of articulation.

For example, when the electric guitar moves forward @ 2:43 in "Sara Smile," listen to how it eats into the bass's mids. When that guitar phrase ends, the bass immediately breathes again. Here, giving the guitar that room is appropriate in that guitar-spotlight section, of course. But I've heard working mixes where for whole songs giant-sounding guitars, keys, and drums eat everything from 120-5K Hz, and then the band's wondering why the bass tone (and vocals) aren't right.

If my mixes and arrangements don't leave room for it, no magic piece of gear will make my bass sound like Jamerson in the mix.
 
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#35
EastCoastThump said:
Just want to add what the original conversation left unsaid: that thick bass tone in the Joan Osborne cuts is possible only b/c the tones on the keys, guitars, and drums leave that space for the bass to be articulate in the low mids with a touch of articulation.

For example, when the electric guitar moves forward @ 2:43 in "Sara Smile," listen to how it eats into the bass's mids. When that guitar phrase ends, the bass immediately breathes again. Here, giving the guitar that room is appropriate in that guitar-spotlight section, of course. But I've heard working mixes where for whole songs giant-sounding guitars, keys, and drums eat everything from 120-5K Hz, and then the band's wondering why the bass tone (and vocals) aren't right.

If my mixes and arrangements don't leave room for it, no magic piece of gear will make my bass sound like Jamerson in the mix.
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I agree. On digital, there is bandwidth, and the EQ of each instrument will take up specific ranges of that bandwidth. Nevertheless, I've done some Sidechain limiting and compression, that allows one instrument or the other to stand up front in the mix, to get that type of effect. Like when the guitar fill and solo comes in, sidechain compression limits and compresses the drums, bass, to a lower level letting the guitar come to the front of the mix. And the split second the guitar is out, the other instruments return to normal levels. I'm wondering, if splitting the bass track into 2 with the frequencies lower than 120hz on one track, and the higher 120 to 1kHz on the other would allow for sidechain compression on the bass and guitar for that crowded 120 to 5kHz range. In any event it would sure eliminate any mud build up. And it could allow the bass articulation to come through the mix without walking on the other instruments.
 
#36
Edit: ARGH!!! The Zombies are here............. Again!

Some advise, though some of it has already been mentioned, anyway here's my take on the matter:

Roll off the J pickup completely and dime the tone of the P pickup.

Play finger style if possible.

Play with the VST EQs in your DAW till you get the desired sound, that would be very low mids/low mids primarily you'll be boosting, as well as cutting some highs (just be reasonable and don't boost or cut too broadly or much. I would say you safely can get rid of everything above 5KHz for your purpose though, or at least begin to roll off there. Also get rid of everything below 30Hz or so).

Also download this free VST Bass Landscapes, sounds amazing for enhancing low and mid harmonics, and generally bringing your bass tone to life, just don't use the tube emulation on it though, it's absolutely horrible and fizzy: Invalid Link Removed

And as someone already mentioned be sure to use compression as the very first VST in your chain.

Finally don't be afraid to experiment with what you got, that's how I learned it.

What I often do to get a feeling of room on a DI'ed bass is that I copy the recorded track, pan the two tracks ever so slightly out to each side, EQ one of them with a little more emphasis on the higher frequency content and to that track add an ever so subtle chorus effect, eventually maybe even some light reverb and/or OD (only if you got a good one, for example in an amp/cab emulator, which I would advise you to use on both tracks anyway), and then mix that track lower than my base bass track, balancing them to my liking.

Google is also your friend.
 
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