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Carol Kaye and why we need help protecting our stuff....

Got my order from Carol on Saturday. Can't wait to get into it but will have to. Getting ready to leave for Pismo for our 10th Anniversary so will have to wait. Just had time for a quick look and she sent a bunch of extra stuff. No picks though, like some of you other guys mentioned, and I was hoping for some. Oh well guess I'll have to place another order when I get back. LOL.
 
Got my order from Carol on Saturday. Can't wait to get into it but will have to. Getting ready to leave for Pismo for our 10th Anniversary so will have to wait. Just had time for a quick look and she sent a bunch of extra stuff. No picks though, like some of you other guys mentioned, and I was hoping for some. Oh well guess I'll have to place another order when I get back. LOL.

I also just received several items (Bass DVD, Jazz Bass CD, Standards I and II). I got one white pick that was taped to one of the extra sheets. They're cheap enough though ($.48 each). Appears to be lots of great lessons in these tutors, I have a lot of work to do. :bassist:
 
Odds are Babbitt didn't write the line in any case. Lots of Motown writers wrote the basic bass lines that Jamerson and company then expanded upon.

And as the writers got more experienced, I believe they began presenting more complete basslines in the score, so there was less of a requirement to invent one on the spot. In that case, the session player was there to play the song as written - and little more.
 
Copyrighting is hugely important. My band does all original kids music and although we sell a pittance in CD's we do get a decent amount in royalties especially for TV shows, satellite radio, etc... It does add up. My band basically pays for itself (studio, recordings, video's, CD pressings, etc).

I know of one children's artist who never licensed or copyrighted her work until the song writer/guitarist in my band told she probably missed out on "many thousands" in royalties because several of her songs were "hits" on the XM Kid's station with regular airplay.


read & learn:

HowStuffWorks "How Music Royalties Work"
 
I bought 3 books and 3 CD's from her Amazon.com site on Monday and they arrived today, and the confirmation email told me they would get here between Dec. 5 and 10. Each book had a personalized note to me and signed by her! Also she included several extra pages of exercises, newspaper clippings, lists of songs she recorded, musicians she's worked with, copies of photos, and recording session logs. Also included was 3 Carol Kaye picks. Talk about going above and beyond...this is great customer service! I have her DVD on my Christmas list and I hope Mrs. Claus orders it for me! :)

Just bought some books and a DVD from her site.
 
It's such a sad thing when someone who is so recognizable in the music industry who has worked their whole life, and worked their butt off, is in a situation like this. I don't know the details as to why she's in foreclosure, but it's still a shame none the less that she can't have the security we all strive for.
 
Don't know Carol. Assume she is a good bass player from all the posts. Never used her books. I don't have much sympathy for people that financed houses through variable rate loans. I had people telling me how much of a sucker I was for always sticking with long-term fixed rate loans, but now I see I wasn't such a fool. You can't get something for nothing. I am sorry She and so many other lost their housing, but in most cases people have been living way above their means. Not a good thing when the man comes calling.

As far as getting ripped off musically, she was an LA session musician. That is what she did for a living, a hired gun that was paid well for what she did at the time. It wasn't like radio stations were marketing the latest Carol Kaye record.

Summary: Lots of stories of people getting taken down after living outside of their means. Lots of stories of people that claim they didn't get their due. Also lots of people that live within their means - even if that means rentals forever - and plenty of people that work their whole lives in a job and realize that what life is all about.
 
Not sure about her house, but Carol is the star of a multipart interview. Excellent! Lots of musical advice and insight here. Her story is much bigger than the Motown controversy. Here's the first one; the others are on the side menu.

Carol Kaye: Session Legend part one on Vimeo
About to hit part 3. Great show...just Carol, a bass, and a guitar. Listen, no matter what you think about her or whatever, she is a legend and someone to be listened to when it comes to playing music on stringed instruments.
 
I don't have much sympathy for people that financed houses through variable rate loans. I had people telling me how much of a sucker I was for always sticking with long-term fixed rate loans, but now I see I wasn't such a fool.

It's a derail but I'll respond, since it's kind of defending CK, who is worthy of respect (can't believe you don't know who she is, you must be young). Also, the counterpoint for anyone who may consider following your approach.

Summary, I believe you are flat wrong. Now the detail :)

You lose a house if you can't service the repayments. That could happen with a fixed rate loan if for example you are relying on investment income to service the loan, and your income drops due to an economic downturn. Under such a scenario, if you had had a variable rate in a market where rates were falling, the fall on mortgage rate might have offset your drop in income, where a fixed rate drives you under.

Not intimately aware of interest rates in the US, but generally around the world they have been dropping due to the economic downturn, and the internet suggests that they are as low in the US as they have been for a decade.

Tom's original post describes CK needing to refinance to get to current market rates. Speculating on what this means, I would have read that as meaning that rates have dropped since she took out her loan and she needed to change loans to get to current market rates. Which suggests her interest rate was not moving, or varying, with the market. Which suggests it was...........?

To be fair, I don't know CK's finances but I know mine. In the late 1980s I was caught in this exact scenario. Australian interest rates dropped maybe 4-5% at the same time as house prices crashed maybe 10% (I understand the current US crashis much worse). Salary increases were not keeping up with inflation, therefore my income in real terms was dropping. A high fixed interest rate that was killing me financially, combined with falling house prices that meant I owed more than the house was worth and could not refinance. I did not lose my house in this situation, but only because I had help, but I did not come out ahead financially. I have several friends who did lose their houses at that time, who would have kept them if they had had variable rates. Hence my belief that you are wrong. I have specific experience that contradicts your advice.

Whatever mistakes she may have made, I am reading that CK tried to provide for herself, and was caught by simple bad luck...stuck needing to refinance at a time when house prices had dropped like a stone and she no longer had sufficient collateral to back a debt or sell the asset and come out cash positive.

Hope it worked out. Tom if you are still following the thread, any update?
 
My comments were misread. I know who CK is. I just don't know her on any personal level.

My Aussie friend is dead wrong on why so many people in the US are losing their houses. 95% are stuck at the end of a variable rate agreement. They have to refinance or lose their house. They try to refinance, only to find out that their house is less than they owe on it. Many times it is actually a second mortgage that they took out to finance things they could not buy with their actual income. Stupid choices.

If people took out fixed loans based on what they could pay over the life of the loan they would not be in so much trouble. People in the US like to live way above their means. That meant people used risky variable rate loans essentially betting that their house would appreciate or at worst stay even. Even worse, many suckers took out second mortgages out to finance lifestyles that did not match their real income. This is bad calculus. It worked for a while, but now the time has come to pay the bill. I can't say I am sorry for people that "lost" houses they never should have been allowed to buy in the first place. Variable rate loans should be against the law for people that don't fully understand the risks. I don't know how you do that when there are so many greedy bankers AND customers.

I was always taught to live within my means, even if it meant living in rentals and shared housing.

Anyway, not really bass related, but the whole thread is about a famous studio bass player that needs money because of poor finances.
 
Fingerbun and Basslice, good discussion.

No personal update. I have a few calls into Carol to see what's up, but a friend of mine in Cali tells me she is working hard and not complaining, however she still has seen quite a downturn in income.

For Basslice, in this case Carol had purchased a modest home to finish out her years in that was in a convenient location. Unfortunately she bought it a few years ago before the market plummeted and before people had the immense ability to share digital media. So her income, which was based significantly on her educational material, was much higher then and even with some decline in it she was good.

Then, in the past couple of years, the income from the teaching material drastically fell. It definitely was impacted by people taking her material, putting it on their computers and websites and giving free access. Add to that the biz itself not hiring as much studio work and she got a double whammy. She wanted a refi so she could help adjust to the more sudden drop in income and not need help. Unfortunately that was now, and she got the double hit by the home being "underwater" as we say here.

I understand where Carol is completely. I got a refi on my home this year. I have owned my home for 25 years, paid my mortgage on time for all those years. I did my refi with the same company. Getting the refi was like being investigated for committing a crime. I have never had someone have me verify my employment and income every week before, not had people look for over four years of tax returns, not ask for tons of detail like this, ever. I've had a few mortgages in my life. When you think about the fact that the company I have been paying perfectly for 25 years treated me like someone who never had a loan or credit before, you can understand Carol's position. If I didn't have any equity in my home to start I'd never have gotten the refi. And despite the law that basically requires banks to help redo loans so people don't default, few banks or lending institutions will, as they view that as a sign of bad loan. In many cases that is not true.

When I hear back from Carol I'll give the update here.
 

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