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Carol Kaye and why we need help protecting our stuff....

She either bought more house than she could afford or is real bad at money management.

Bass player or not, it's a bummer that she didn't pay her bills but can you really blame the rap industry and sampling for that?
 
She either bought more house than she could afford or is real bad at money management.

Dept. of Redundancy Dept.

Bass player or not, it's a bummer that she didn't pay her bills but can you really blame the rap industry and sampling for that?

No, but she is an elder and as such is likely on a fixed income. It's not anyone's fault. If you'd like to help her out you could purchase one of her excellent educational products. Alternatively, you could just aimlessly bash her, I suppose. :rollno:
 
She either bought more house than she could afford or is real bad at money management.

Bass player or not, it's a bummer that she didn't pay her bills but can you really blame the rap industry and sampling for that?

Yeah, couldn't be anything else going on like huge medical bills, some other family emergency that cost a lot of $$, or retirement investment income dropping to zero due to low interest rates and bank collapses.
 
Basslice said:
My comments were misread. I know who CK is. I just don't know her on any personal level.

My Aussie friend is dead wrong on why so many people in the US are losing their houses. 95% are stuck at the end of a variable rate agreement. They have to refinance or lose their house. They try to refinance, only to find out that their house is less than they owe on it. Many times it is actually a second mortgage that they took out to finance things they could not buy with their actual income. Stupid choices.

If people took out fixed loans based on what they could pay over the life of the loan they would not be in so much trouble. People in the US like to live way above their means. That meant people used risky variable rate loans essentially betting that their house would appreciate or at worst stay even. Even worse, many suckers took out second mortgages out to finance lifestyles that did not match their real income. This is bad calculus. It worked for a while, but now the time has come to pay the bill. I can't say I am sorry for people that "lost" houses they never should have been allowed to buy in the first place. Variable rate loans should be against the law for people that don't fully understand the risks. I don't know how you do that when there are so many greedy bankers AND customers.

I was always taught to live within my means, even if it meant living in rentals and shared housing.

Anyway, not really bass related, but the whole thread is about a famous studio bass player that needs money because of poor finances.

If you are saying too much debt is risky absolutely agree.

If you are saying fixed is safe, I have seen people lose their homes from fixed mortgages.

No need to argue the point, just putting it out there for anyone who is thinking what to do with their own refinancing.

Neither of us knows what sort of mortgage CK had. Don't need to. Hope it works out for her.

In googling for my last post I read that your property values fell something like 20% when things went bad. In Sydney where I live, even the cheapest homes in the worst areas would require an initial savings pool of $100k to have 20% equity. Maybe twice that for something average. Most people would start with 5-10% and a downturn like yours would trap them all. So I don't see being in trouble like that as proof that CK was profligate or irresponsible.
 
No out to bash anyone - especially an old lady, but we don't know the circumstances.

There are some folks out there who are so upside down on their houses that they are advised to walk away from them and take the hit to their credit.

Donald Trump has filed for bankruptcy 4 times and has had properties foreclosed on and as far as I know, he isn't sleeping in his car.

All I really know is that they don't kick out of your house if you are paying for it.
 
No out to bash anyone - especially an old lady, but we don't know the circumstances.

There are some folks out there who are so upside down on their houses that they are advised to walk away from them and take the hit to their credit.

Donald Trump has filed for bankruptcy 4 times and has had properties foreclosed on and as far as I know, he isn't sleeping in his car.

All I really know is that they don't kick out of your house if you are paying for it.

If you're suggesting that Carol Kaye is in the same financial realm as Donald Trump, well, I think you know how untrue that is.
 
If you're suggesting that Carol Kaye is in the same financial realm as Donald Trump, well, I think you know how untrue that is.

Of course I'm not, am I believe that you know that.

I just used "The Donald" as an example that foreclosure is sometimes used as a tool to success, like cutting your losses.

But going back to my first post, are the Rappers really to blame for her financial situation?
 
Okay, here's what is important.

Yes, I"m sure that Carol could have had a little better money management. What I will tell you is that Carol, in my experience, has never lived outside her means, and has been pretty prudent with the money she's made. That, however, can mean that with the collapse of the financial system and the hits some pension and investment funds took the money you had aint the money you wish you had. Since most musicians, with the notable exception of Duff McGagan, aren't financial planners, you trust others to help you put money in the right things to make it grow.

My personal example are two different accounts I have. One is in a bank savings, the other was an investment account that was heavily in mortgages. Back in the day, mortgage backed accounts were the best, safest investment. They didn't grow like regular stock funds, but had a pretty decent return and they were known as very secure. Flash forward to 2008.

When it was revealed that many of the bulk, bundled mortgage notes were rated and sold as AAA to the investment fund managers but were actually near junk status, it was a whack. My personal stake had the account not only nearly collapse, but the account which I had been building for nearly 20 years went from having a very modest 5% return to me actually losing initial principle! Yes, all the earnings over the years, and some of my original principle were gone. So, as I was planning on a nice account to suck off of as I got older, now its a piece of crap.

My savings account, on the other hand, has gained about 3% over the same time, and even today I'm getting a lousy .5%, but i'm still getting interest. Based on that I should have just put all my money in a savings account 20 years ago. I trusted the fund manager, and for many years he was great. He had little idea of what the fund was buying was really junk, and as most of us who follow this topic know that is one of the really evil things that mortgage brokers were doing over the past 10 years.

So, Carol, who is not a whiner, found that her original financial planning was suddenly thrown into a loop. And at her age (we're talking 70's, she ain't 20 anymore) where your ability to adjust to sudden, more extreme downturns is much harder, well, she got behind in her mortgage. Its not like she sat on her butt, but she couldn't make the gap up quickly enough. And owning a home in California is way more expensive then most parts of the country.

Think about it. Put yourself in her shoes. You are in your 70's. The nest egg you were planning for is effected by the evil financial dudes, so your safety net is much smaller. Then, your income from protected intellectual property drops substantially and quickly because of this thing called the internet and P2P and bit torrent, and also you have artists who blatantly turn their noses at the law and the industry, reducing what you planned reasonably to be an income. Oh, and you have a mortgage, taxes, medical insurance, car insurance, food, clothing all to pay.

So, you then ask the bank to refi, telling them you want to pay your mortgage, but you have had a real sudden income problem. Not no income, just a reduction. You ask them to redo the terms of your loan so you can have a house AND pay your bills like a good citizen. Then, the mortgage company, being incredibly stingy because of all the ills they themselves perpetrated, decide that they will now follow every single letter of the law, and since your property value has dumped (parts of CA saw a 30% drop) its at or near underwater and you have no equity. So no, they will not give you a redo or refi. So, you keep trying and at some point you have to decide if its better to eat and have medicine or a house that is killing you. And the bank doesn't care, they just foreclose, because in their minds they have to do that on everyone immediately and get rid of all the "bad debt", which, by the way, the government is helping them write off and pay for. Do it now, while the government is padding your losses. Wait or refi and if there is a default later you might get stuck with the whole thing.

So there you have it. Responsible citizens ask to have a redo or refi. They want to pay the mortgage. Carol did not just walk away from it, like soooo many other sleazebags I know did. And that includes people who could afford to pay the mortgage and bills but believed that owning the roof over their heads wasn't worth it since it wasn't gaining value.
 
Okay, here's what is important.

Yes, I"m sure that Carol could have had a little better money management. What I will tell you is that Carol, in my experience, has never lived outside her means, and has been pretty prudent with the money she's made. That, however, can mean that with the collapse of the financial system and the hits some pension and investment funds took the money you had aint the money you wish you had. Since most musicians, with the notable exception of Duff McGagan, aren't financial planners, you trust others to help you put money in the right things to make it grow.

My personal example are two different accounts I have. One is in a bank savings, the other was an investment account that was heavily in mortgages. Back in the day, mortgage backed accounts were the best, safest investment. They didn't grow like regular stock funds, but had a pretty decent return and they were known as very secure. Flash forward to 2008.

When it was revealed that many of the bulk, bundled mortgage notes were rated and sold as AAA to the investment fund managers but were actually near junk status, it was a whack. My personal stake had the account not only nearly collapse, but the account which I had been building for nearly 20 years went from having a very modest 5% return to me actually losing initial principle! Yes, all the earnings over the years, and some of my original principle were gone. So, as I was planning on a nice account to suck off of as I got older, now its a piece of crap.

My savings account, on the other hand, has gained about 3% over the same time, and even today I'm getting a lousy .5%, but i'm still getting interest. Based on that I should have just put all my money in a savings account 20 years ago. I trusted the fund manager, and for many years he was great. He had little idea of what the fund was buying was really junk, and as most of us who follow this topic know that is one of the really evil things that mortgage brokers were doing over the past 10 years.

So, Carol, who is not a whiner, found that her original financial planning was suddenly thrown into a loop. And at her age (we're talking 70's, she ain't 20 anymore) where your ability to adjust to sudden, more extreme downturns is much harder, well, she got behind in her mortgage. Its not like she sat on her butt, but she couldn't make the gap up quickly enough. And owning a home in California is way more expensive then most parts of the country.

Think about it. Put yourself in her shoes. You are in your 70's. The nest egg you were planning for is effected by the evil financial dudes, so your safety net is much smaller. Then, your income from protected intellectual property drops substantially and quickly because of this thing called the internet and P2P and bit torrent, and also you have artists who blatantly turn their noses at the law and the industry, reducing what you planned reasonably to be an income. Oh, and you have a mortgage, taxes, medical insurance, car insurance, food, clothing all to pay.

So, you then ask the bank to refi, telling them you want to pay your mortgage, but you have had a real sudden income problem. Not no income, just a reduction. You ask them to redo the terms of your loan so you can have a house AND pay your bills like a good citizen. Then, the mortgage company, being incredibly stingy because of all the ills they themselves perpetrated, decide that they will now follow every single letter of the law, and since your property value has dumped (parts of CA saw a 30% drop) its at or near underwater and you have no equity. So no, they will not give you a redo or refi. So, you keep trying and at some point you have to decide if its better to eat and have medicine or a house that is killing you. And the bank doesn't care, they just foreclose, because in their minds they have to do that on everyone immediately and get rid of all the "bad debt", which, by the way, the government is helping them write off and pay for. Do it now, while the government is padding your losses. Wait or refi and if there is a default later you might get stuck with the whole thing.

So there you have it. Responsible citizens ask to have a redo or refi. They want to pay the mortgage. Carol did not just walk away from it, like soooo many other sleazebags I know did. And that includes people who could afford to pay the mortgage and bills but believed that owning the roof over their heads wasn't worth it since it wasn't gaining value.

Thank you Tom.


And as I was saying in an earlier post.


Or just find a bs reason to just outright take it.
 
In todays world, the simple rule of work hard, do your best, and life will be the happy ending of 50's television is the simplistic image many folks hold to heart. The reality, in my experience anyway, is that life can get sloppy. And I'm finding more and more, that those folks who have the least wiggle room... working poor, elderly, suddenly physically impaired, etc... are generally people who are silently bearing their burdens. And the latest US Census re-think is that there are waaaaay more folks in that position than anyone thought. My heart goes out to all the folks in a rough situation.... Carol included.
 
This is a tragedy. I think it's despicable that someone that has played on as many hits as she has can't even make her house payments. Shame on an industry that allows this to happen to the Kayes and Jamersons of the world. At least the greed machines that were recording studios and record companies are all dead or dying. Good riddance!

I kind of agree, but whats gonna happen when record companies die too??? Where will the music go???
 
Horrific and unbelievable; but thanks for posting this.
Having said that - I went to her website and will start buying stuff immediately. Incidentally - and for everyone who stumbles through this thread - she offers a 1-1 Skype-delivered 35 minute lesson for $40. I absofreakinlootely will buy a few of those.

+1 on the lessons. That's just flippin' cool !
 

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