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Carol Kaye and why we need help protecting our stuff....
- Thread starter TRichardsbass
- Start date
Well, those are all career frontmen who had recognizable hits, and Carol is an unknown (to the general public) studio bassist.
Kinda different draw potential, dontchathink?
I learned to play from her books. When I started playing a few years back, I re-upped. Bought 'm all again, directly from her. She sent a bunch of extra stuff with them. A copy of her work log (session after session after session), a copy of a check from the union for doing a session, etc. Great stuff. Great player. Great person. I hope she gets sorted out.
+1, not to mention those are all lifers when it comes to touring, IIRC she's been almost exclusively studio and maybe a few concerts here and there.
Couldn't imagine being in my 60s/70s and starting all over again doing tours if you've never done it extensively before, and gender has nuthin' to do with it.
I wish her well and success in getting out that mess, have learned much from her books and many of the tunes she's played on over the years.
Alkali Ike
Gold Supporting Member
- Jan 1, 2011
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- I never actually learned to play very well
My birthday's comin' up - gonna send my hubby to her website to buy lots of cool stuff. Thanks for posting the info.
I think it depends. Chic successfully sued the Sugar Hill Gang over "Rapper's Delight". I can't imagine they won because of the rhythm guitar part.
I am going to buy a web cam after work today and take some Skype lessons from her to go with the books & dvd I already have.
- Jun 3, 2009
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- Bassgearu, Music Industry Consulting and Sales. Tech 21, NBE Corp, Sonosphere.
Carol Kaye | Facebook
This is the one I have.
I bought all the material on her site a few months ago, including a lifetime's worth of picks. Didn't know about the whole story, only she was needing some help.
Thanks for everyone here doing their part. Hope it helps a legend. At least when you buy her stuff she gets it directly and YOU still get something of value.
This is the one I have.
I bought all the material on her site a few months ago, including a lifetime's worth of picks. Didn't know about the whole story, only she was needing some help.
Thanks for everyone here doing their part. Hope it helps a legend. At least when you buy her stuff she gets it directly and YOU still get something of value.
- Apr 1, 2000
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- Endorsing Artist: Roscoe Guitars, DR Strings, Aguilar Amplification
I already mentioned that, and nobody responded. I know in order to get writing credit, it would have to significantly contribute to the tune (a'la the Sugar Hill Gang tune mentioned, or "Brick House"). And in order to get publishing rights, she'd have to have bought or negotiated them, or have writing credit...
Clyde Stubbefield is in the same boat.
- Jun 3, 2009
- 3,330
- 398
- Disclosures
- Bassgearu, Music Industry Consulting and Sales. Tech 21, NBE Corp, Sonosphere.
You can actually copyright a bassline. I've done it a ton of times. You can run into issues when it comes to enforcement, especially if its similar to another one that exits. They key is really when you publish it. If I create a bassline, and copyright it, then put it in a song, and copyright that, I'm doubly protected. Well, at least I have a better legal leg to stand on. I always copyright my diddles so that in case someone hears one I can have a shot at getting my due if they steal it.
Copyrights only matter when something is published and stolen. The copyright entitles the owner some money for the work, and should it be ripped off, it is a legal basis for the court action and possible compensation.
That is why the Sugar Hill Gang lost. If the bassline is the defining part, that is copyrighted as part of the work. Otherwise, someone could tear apart song components and get away with using the whole bassline, guitar riff or drum beat for nothing.
"Another One Bites the Dust" IS the bassline, as well as the song "White Lines". If I were to take just the bassline, I'd still be stealing a copyright. So, in a way, yes, you can copyright a bassline. Several of the songs I wrote that I sold to artists were just basslines, a beat and my singing over it.
Studio musicians have a harder time because they were normally paid union wage for "work for hire", meaning they got paid no matter what they contributed, and got nothing more. But on some songs, like "And the Beat Goes On", as she likes to talk about, she came up with the bassline which makes the song. She I believe still gets a royalty for any sales that have that song on it.
Les Paul made more for his licensing of the "Les Paul" on the guitars and for his early recording equipment patents then he ever did with music.
Either way, I had to post this here. Its just a damn shame.
Blessings to you trichardsbass for exposing this. You are obviously a class act. Hopefully, it gets enough internet buzz to get her some help.
This page can't be "friended", only liked - but it seems like it's the most active of the bunch.
This page seems inactive but I'll befriend it anyway.
Thanks.
She ran out of room for Friend requests so she created the 2nd page "Carol Kaye II"
I've talked to her several times, never knew this was what was going on.
I've talked to her several times, never knew this was what was going on.
This is a tragedy. I think it's despicable that someone that has played on as many hits as she has can't even make her house payments. Shame on an industry that allows this to happen to the Kayes and Jamersons of the world. At least the greed machines that were recording studios and record companies are all dead or dying. Good riddance!
Stick_Player
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- Nov 13, 2009
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For someone to steal your copyrighted bassline, you'd have to prove that it was stolen. Coming up with a bassline in your bedroom and "copyrighting" is not the same as releasing (publishing) a recorded bassline (clearly being an integral part of the Composition) that sells multi-millions of copies and then later discovering it showing up in a subsequent recording.
I'm sure that someone played the same combination of notes that later became known as the bassline to Come Together.
While I greatly admire Carol Kaye's bass playing. This sounds like a money management problem.
If I could do over 10,000 sessions at today's AFM $450.00 rate... plus books, lessons, etc...
We're not getting the whole story here.
Rally, TB'ers!!
Someone should turn Carol onto this thread, it should make her day. There is a lot of positive support here.
I don't know what to say about the copyright stuff, that's pretty muddy waters and i'm not familiar enough with the specifics to know. Art is derivative, and depending on how it's done there are many views and perspectives that require some consideration, imo.
TR, I am one of the inquiring minds; are you declaring war, or not? =)
Someone should turn Carol onto this thread, it should make her day. There is a lot of positive support here.
I don't know what to say about the copyright stuff, that's pretty muddy waters and i'm not familiar enough with the specifics to know. Art is derivative, and depending on how it's done there are many views and perspectives that require some consideration, imo.
TR, I am one of the inquiring minds; are you declaring war, or not? =)
