• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Carol Kaye and why we need help protecting our stuff....

#61
DWBass said:
Listen closely! Not 'exactly' the same although the intent is still there. I have not heard about any legal action from Nile Rogers so either he got paid or didn't give a crap!
Click to expand...

Nile and Bernard have discussed "Rapper's Delight" in interviews. They sued and they got paid. I think sampling can yield some great results - and a lot of the re-issued 60s and 70s recordings out there have been re-issued largely because of interest in sample sources on the part of rare groove and hip-hop fans. To me, however, the artists being sampled need to be acknowledged and paid.
 
#62
OldDog52 said:
In some Perfect World, a Sting or McCartney or someone of that stature would leverage their influence and see to it that her unfortunate situation is somehow alleviated. Wouldn't it be great if American Idol would do like they did with Bob Babbitt and get Carol up there on stage to play along with one of the contestants, or better, with the band for an entire show. And why isn't Carol in the R&R Hall of Fame or getting some kind of Lifetime Achievement award or something? My god if you look at her discography, even throwing out the disputed tracks, her contributions to the music biz are mind boggling. Every major label could quietly chip in some kind of anonymous assistance to her and they would never even miss it and it would mean the world to her.

:bawl:
Click to expand...

I am on it. Oh, MA, if you are reading this thread, please see if any of your contacts can help.

I will attempt to call X Factor and Idol producers today. I agree, like with Babbit, great idea.

I just happen to know the original curator of the R&R Hall, as he is from Jersey. I'll see if there is a way to nominate her for something.

Also, I will contact a few of the old studio cats in NYC and see what is up.

Part of the issue is as others said, not only are they ripping off music, but as legendary Roy Vogt wrote, people are taking the stuff Carol did, like her DVD and digital copies of her books, and putting them out on P2P and torrents.

You know I have been ranting about the torrents for a while, but I was focused on the music. This is one I forgot about. WHEN YOU PUT SOMETHING ON YOUR HARD DRIVE, UNLESS YOU SPECIFICALLY PUT IT IN A SPOT THE TORRENT CANNOT ACCESS, YOU ARE PUTTING IT OUT THERE FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE! So, stop that crap, now.
 
#65
TRichardsbass said:
You know I have been ranting about the torrents for a while, but I was focused on the music. This is one I forgot about. WHEN YOU PUT SOMETHING ON YOUR HARD DRIVE, UNLESS YOU SPECIFICALLY PUT IT IN A SPOT THE TORRENT CANNOT ACCESS, YOU ARE PUTTING IT OUT THERE FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE! So, stop that crap, now.
Click to expand...

You have that backward. Every torrent program, and every p2p program, I have ever used only shares from directories you tell it to share from.
 
#66
sampling oldies has REVIVED more careers than it has diminished, IMHO!!! it's not a valid war, my friends.

because of these samples, my kids have discovered dozens of acts that have long been forgotten and these people have indirectly BENEFITTED from the interest renewal. if the artist can't get paid, then BLAME the judicial system.
 
#68
projectMalamute said:
I'm totally with you.

It's terrible when people take a bass part they didn't even write or play and claim it as their own.
Click to expand...

happens in every genre!!!

blues progressions SHARE basslines as well as rock progressions, jazz progressions, reggae, etc.

we all have used these basslines and gotten paid. sampling may be a blatant copyright infringment, but the courts have to make a firm decision and hold violators accountable.

calling out specific artists might work. my bet says a royalty from each and every perpetrator would not have saved her home without proper money management.
 
#69
Tom, I'm still reading through the thread (a great one, for sure), but wanted to pause and thank you for posting about Carol. I just "liked" her FB page and I'm really enjoying her posts. Fascinating... An amazing musician and what a career! I know I'm going to learn a ton by checking out her page on a regular basis. Really hope the downturn in her finances turns out to be blessing in disguise and a wonderful new chapter for her!
 
#70
In addition to the above, how about a good old-fashioned benefit concert with the theme "Stop the Piracy"?

She would get more "public" name recognition in one night than in her entire life, and people might wake up to her plight, and to that of other musicians.

Perhaps I am dreaming, but it's an idea.
 
#72
Great thread and a great read. Thanks to Tom and all others for their insights.

Just got back from Carol's site after purchasing some instructionals and cds. I've been steadily employed for 30 years as a sloppy, uneducated player so why not learn something from one of the best. My first bass lesson ever!

As for the idea that swiping bass lines, drum parts, iconic riffs, for your own song somehow helps the original artist with increased visibility for the original artist - I ain't buyin' it and neither is anyone else. That's the problem. A cover band might send me home to listen to a song I forgot or to buy an artist I need more of, but a steal in the service of "original music" is just garbage. Was Vanilla Ice some brilliant genius reminding us of Queen or just a talentless poser lining his pockets with another person's hard work?

If you lift it because you admire it, then credit it and pay for it. Just because you can get away with it doesn't make it right.
 
#73
Well, I'm sorry to hear Carol is in a tough financial spot. But I have a few observations.

1. Probably 90% of her work was as a paid employee for laying down bass parts. In that respect, her situation is---unfortunately---no different than that of any other hourly or salaried employee who's been screwed by the current economic situation.

2. Having copyright protection is only useful if you're ready to pay attorneys to sue infringers. If you aren't, then copyright is a waste of time.

3. The copyright for a sound recording (a record or CD) almost never belongs to the writer. It could be argued that the audio sample infringes the holder of the SR copyright but not that of the writer. The record company will spend lots of time and money in court making this argument. If you can afford to fight it out against a high-priced legal department, you might have a small chance of winning.

4. Facebook friends? Yeah, that'll help a lot.
 
#74
I love Carol Kaye. If I had to pick my favorite bassist it would be a close call between her and Jamerson and McCartney. I have purchased materials from her site that were reasonably priced and of the highest quality.

Had some correspondence with her too during my transactions and she was very approachable, friendly, helpful and a pleasure to deal with. She gives out bonuses with some items too like free CD's which are great, and throws in little goodies like a couple free picks and autographs which are nice little touches.

I just posted on here awhile back in fact about her CD's of her basslines which are really great for transcribing. Truly inspirational-and in my case challenging-material. I cannot say enough good things about her products. I highly recommend them to anyone and I plan on buying more myself.
 
#75
Piracy is not was has hurt Carol Kaye. She gets up in arms over it, as do many in this thread, likely because they don't think about what piracy entails. (Please note: I am a fan of Carol's and I have bought a book and CD from her in the past month and plan to buy all the others as I work through them. I do not condone piracy) Here's my point: "Piracy," more accurately "file-sharing" is simply the duplication of something and sharing with others. This, obviously, does not make Carol's wallet any fatter. It also does not necessarily cut into any profits she would make. I would wager that most people who download her work without paying are the sort of people who wouldn't pay either way. It's null. You can argue about whether they "deserve" to have the work, but I don't think you can make a serious case that it harms her financially.

Where the real damage to Carol Kaye comes in is how amazingly underpaid talented studio musicians were during her heyday. Think about it: the Monkees did not record their own music, musicians like Carol did. Those records go on to sell thousands and thousands of copies and the Monkees are the one's who profit, not the actual musicians. That's the theft (someone profiting off someone else's work) not your average teenager with a modicum of tech savvy.

[flamesuit on]

ETA: I'm also stunned that nobody's come in yet to crap on this thread and say she deserves to lose her house for claiming Jamerson lines as her own, which is itself worse than simple online piracy
 
#76
CnB77 said:
ETA: I'm also stunned that nobody's come in yet to crap on this thread and say she deserves to lose her house for claiming Jamerson lines as her own, which is itself worse than simple online piracy
Click to expand...

For me the jury is still out - Kaye may have played on more than many are willing to accept.

Interesting.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back