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Carol Kaye - Chordal Notes

#23
Get Band in a Box - program a bunch of changes and practice the arpeggios and substitutions. It's one thing to discuss the theory, quite another to train your ears and fingers. Both endeavors are good for the soul.

It helps to have a robot that doesn't care about playing a series of changes ad inf.

Also - using a piano to demystify how harmony works is priceless. A piano takes the stuff you learn in theory and shows you what it means in a very clear, easy to understand linear fashion that no other instrument can do.
 
#24
I've bought lot of books, CD and DVD from CK, talk with her on the forum, but I still don't understand how you can improvise with chord substitution...

Her methods are not modern and don't include chords sounds so we cannot hear the interaction between background harmony and foreground improvisation with notes from other chords... You just hear the bass ! How can you become familiar with harmony and have fun with it ?

Can we apply this to rock music ? Do rockers play with chord substitutions ? I'm not sure... However she says her method works for all kind of music.

Tell me if I'm wrong...
 
#25
you could use a looper to lay down the chords, also record progressions in your DAW...or have a guitarist or keyboardist play the chords... yes, very important to hear the chords and how these patterns sound with these.........Listening is paramount -- all of my students do this and after a time hear the changes as well as the tension and resolve of the progressions and recognize them in music they listen to...
 
#27
Subscribe and read posts on Carol Kaye's Forum

http://carolkaye.com/forum/

Read the topic "The Real Education"

It's all about chord substitution for bass, what I was speaking about... I never understood anything her theory and her methods I bought (books, CD, DVD, ...), not because it's bad, but because I'm not made for this, maybe not made for jazz... so impossible to improvize on pop/rock by applying her lessons (eventhough she says it works for pop too).
 
#28
tumbaobab said:
Subscribe and read posts on Carol Kaye's Forum

http://carolkaye.com/forum/

Read the topic "The Real Education"

It's all about chord substitution for bass, what I was speaking about... I never understood anything her theory and her methods I bought (books, CD, DVD, ...), not because it's bad, but because I'm not made for this, maybe not made for jazz... so impossible to improvize on pop/rock by applying her lessons (eventhough she says it works for pop too).
Click to expand...

Seriously, you don't see how it all applies to other generes of music? All songs are constructed out of chords.

I'm asking this as an honest question, because once I was taught (and am still currently studying) chordal theory, I began applying it everywhere - jazz, contemporary Christian, country, and bluegrass.

And to clarify, I'm no rocket scientist or brain surgeon.
 
#30
I conceptually understand what's been discussed but have never really been able to successfully apply it. I have a lot of Carol's books and both of the DVD courses too. Anyone have any helpful hints here? It seems so simple and straightforward and I feel like I am so close to really "getting it" (hearing and applying) but just haven't been able to. Maybe I have spent too much time with the dreaded note scales....:hiding:..... though I definitely feel studying them has helped somewhat.
 
#31
Pockett said:
Looked this up just yesterday! Here's some theory, a video, and a pretty helpful transcription of Carol Kaye Chordal Scale Exercises from a teacher in Australia:
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Click to expand...

Thank you but this is one more exercise as I saw dozens in CK methods.

I still don't know how to apply these patterns in real life.

I still never heard a modern method with CD tracks playing roots chords with synthesizer or guitar and the bass in front of it playing raw arpeggios first of the substitute chords, then progressively playing musical patterns with these arpeggio... and finally arrive to the point "Whaou... this is a beautiful bass solo".

Let's wait until 2030 to find such a method on Amazon :ninja:
 
#32
I have a lot of confidence that this method works but that I must not be working at it correctly. I'd really love to hear some success stories and the different approaches that people used. Is it really just recording changes and running the written lines until they become unconscious?

Her fingering approach really helped me....which is why I'm sure her approach to soloing will too. I need to go back and read all the hints again.
 
#34
When you practice musical information, say diatonic chords-- you must remember you are not rehearsing a Performance but getting concepts under your fingers, in your mind, and most importantly to hear good chordal music --- nothing wrong with learning licks and runs, etc but with practicing good chordal stuff such as Carol's material -- you can understand and hear the changes you encounter on the job or jamming....this is much more valuable to the bass musician... I've taught my students in this manner for years and some have gone on to be session/touring musicians in their own right...
 
#36
I've taught using Carol's methods at times and yes chordal playing is where it's at...and not just jazz either! understanding how chords work, '' ask'' for one another, and most importantly hear what is going on are invaluable to the session work I do here in Nashville...I teach privately in my home office and world wide via Skype.....and all my students get a good grounding in this...and some are working session/touring/gigging bass players now

I've never been hired to play a scale....:-) True!
 
#37
:DI've taught using Carol's methods at times and yes chordal playing is where it's at...and not just jazz either! understanding how chords work, '' ask'' for one another, and most importantly hear what is going on are invaluable to the session work I do here in Nashville...I teach privately in my home office and world wide via Skype.....and all my students get a good grounding in this...and some are working session/touring/gigging bass players now

I've never been hired to play a scale....:-) True!
 
#40
And please explain us how can we appreciate a pattern based on a substitute chord if we don't hear the original chord as in "Pro Jazz Phrases".

IMHO the harmony-melody link is missing in her method... I would prefer listening the pattern played on the piano with the right hand and the original chord played with left hand...
 

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