Carol Kaye: Shes got opinions

[cowsgomoo]

erm... difficult... Carole Kaye's approach clearly worked for Carole Kaye, and advice from people with outstanding achievements should be listened to very seriously and very carefully...

however, no-one's entitled, no matter how great or how lowly, to dispense with courtesy

 

[BargeOn]

I think what she means by the songs vs. theory point, is that some people will just blindly learn a song note-for-note and not really understand, or bother to try to understand, the theory behind it.

+2

She made her living and build her reputation on being able to sit down and play music she did not have the benefit of studying much, if at all, before hand.

If you and I learn to play Teen Town, we learn to play what Jaco already did. That's fun, it's a challenge and we can learn from it.
But people like Jaco and Carol played it first and played it well because they understood how music works. (and that doesn't mean you have to take years of study in harmonic theory but a grasp of the fundamentals will take you quite a way)

She may be a thorny SOB. I don't really care.

John

 

[slugworth]

I absolutely loved Carol...until I started posting on her website regularly. Every question was considered a challenge to her genius; every comment was considered a putdown of what she's done, every damn thing I said was taken the wrong way, and every opinion I had that didn't completely jibe with hers was either ridiculed or yanked off her board.

On the other hand, she completely cured me of pain in my RH when I use a pick; when you order something from her she sends oodles and oodles of bonus stuff like CD's, press clippings, and picks; and she's very giving to people who want to learn the way she teaches. And you have to admit that she's done more than everyone on Talkbass put together. But dang, she can be just as mean and nasty as she wants to be. And it makes me sad because I really wanted to like her and have her be my pal. But I couldn't take having to explain myself over every little harmless comment or question I'd make.

>>> I took lessons from Carol in the late 70's, she's a VERY different person today from what she was then. I also got
tongue-lashed and pummeled on her message board, she is incredibly cruel. Her high powered image of herself and the utter absence of professional courtesy she displays towards others is deplorable. If she wasn't a 70 year old lady, I would have some choice words for her in the NAMM parking lot. She has become one of the most BITTER people I have ever met in my life and I cannot for the life of me understand why, considering her vast accomplishments. She operates on some weird theory of self entitlement, and believes her word is gospel. Furthermore, how she's attempted to steal a dead man's legacy is detestable. There are now many, many players out there whose ability and talents Carol couldn't even approach, even when she was at the top of her game. Yeah, she did 10,000 sessions, but a significant part of it was a bunch of sophmoric throwaway AM Radio garbage. The saddest thing in life is finding that a person you once respected has become a cruel, self-absorbed
jerk. She should donate her basses to the Smithsonian as national treasures and retire to the home for obsolete musicians. The world has moved on, and so should Carol.

It's sad...

Slug

 

[Warwickthumb]

Furthermore, how she's attempted to steal a dead man's legacy is detestable

Who's legacy?

 

[slugworth]

J.J

 

[slugworth]

I've never met the gal but she was quite the hottie when she was younger.

From what I've read by her and about her she is stubborn and opinionated. That's o.k. If she wants to be stubborn, fine...and we all have opinions.

And she has a valid point. Not the only valid point but nevertheless a valid point.

And she has some very, very heavy creds.

Take her roughness with a grain of salt and just try to see her opinion as that...an opinion.

And by the way...learning theory isn't about scale wanking. Think about it. Knowing theory is a good thing whether it's learned in the classroom or through experience.




She's not a purist, she's set in her ways it sounds like. She was a rebel...and way back then you had to be both good and tough to be a female rebel FIRST CALL MUSICIAN.

It takes all kinds..including me, you and her.



Joe.

>>> All of her accomplishments and heavy creds do not entitle her to be rude, disrespectful, and attack people personally, especially when it's just about music theory
and playing bass. When someone acts that way toward me, I cease being a nice guy...

Slug

 

[FunkKing]

What Slugworth said.

 

[spooner2112]

I think what she means by the songs vs. theory point, is that some people will just blindly learn a song note-for-note and not really understand, or bother to try to understand, the theory behind it.

Sometimes the original bassline was composed with no "theory behind it" at all. Just a player with talent and an ear. I read a Steve Harris interview in which he said he didn't know a single scale. (Of course, Ms. Kaye probably wouldn't consider him a "real" musician.)

Knowing theory certainly helps put things in context, and it can be learned parallel to specific songs -- I think the two approaches naturally compliment each other.

It also depends on what type of music you are trying to play. A session jazz bassist who is reading charts needs to know plenty of theory. Someone trying to rock to Black Sabbath and Iron Maiden tunes... maybe not so much.

 

[bigtexashonk]

Nothing against Carol as a musician. She has certainly earned her cred no matter how significant or insignificant the session(s) may have been. It's never classy to be an "oaf".

While playing Ramones tunes may not be as "theoretically" challenging as playing say, Mahavishnu Orchestra tunes, there's no denying how fun it truly is to play a Ramones tune.