Is it equipped to mount double ball-end strings or are we limited to the clamping system? Would you be as kind as to post a pic or two of the headpiece?
Thanks!
Riis
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Is it equipped to mount double ball-end strings or are we limited to the clamping system? Would you be as kind as to post a pic or two of the headpiece?
Thanks!
Riis
Clamping system with my short scale, I'm not sure about the 34" scale models.
@DrDAV14 What soft case did your bass come with. The web site says the Vader comes with the SC10B soft case, which doesn't appear to be on their list of bags/cases:
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It seems to me that a headless short-scale base should easily fit in a guitar case. Does yours have a lot of extra material, or is it a good fit.
By the way, I see you are in Houston. I spent my college years there.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
It seems to me that a headless short-scale base should easily fit in a guitar case. Does yours have a lot of extra material, or is it a good fit.
By the way, I see you are in Houston. I spent my college years there.
Great. Thanks for the info. It seems like the short-scale Vader, being headless, would be very good for traveling.
I spent my time in Houston at Rice, so I didn't make it to the NW side very often. I did go to Austin a few times to play rugby, though.
I spent my time in Houston at Rice, so I didn't make it to the NW side very often. I did go to Austin a few times to play rugby, though.
So, fellow bassists interested in the Vader. I'm torn between black and white. Any thoughts? Is one color easier to keep clean or nice-looking than the other? Also, what are your thoughts on satin and gloss finishes.
Biggest gripe I have is, I'd want a fan fret model (Keisel already does it on their Aries guitars) as I've been sort of fascinated with the idea of a guitar that would sort of mimic the Strandberg headless, fan fret guitars that seem to be very popular in prog genres these days. A fan fret Vader with a BEM board and a nice finish would be a cool toy 
Can anyone with a Vader comment on how it hangs on the player, and whether it sits farther toward the fretting hand than an ordinary bass with the strap button at the 12th fret? @DrDAV14 above said it sits fine on him, but @selassie1 said a few pages back that it felt like a guitar with a bass neck stuck on. I'm interested in the short-scale version, and one of the reason I want a short scale is to reduce the reach, so this is a critical issue for me. I'd hate spend ~10 weeks excitedly waiting for a bass only to be disappointed when it arrives.
The short scale bass hangs more centered than the 34" scale. Yes the body is smaller than a P bass, Jazz etc... Thats why "I" like it, the reach is NOT like a T-Bird or Explorer.
If you want to simulate its position, take your strap off the upper horn of your bass and zip tie it to the horn above the 15th or 16th fret (same as the Vader), and see how the reach feels.
The Steinberger XM2's and the Spector NS2's all have the same upper horn strap placement as the Vader. The short scale makes it even more reachable. I'm 5'7" and have no issues at all with the reach. I would order, fear not.
If you want to simulate its position, take your strap off the upper horn of your bass and zip tie it to the horn above the 15th or 16th fret (same as the Vader), and see how the reach feels.
The Steinberger XM2's and the Spector NS2's all have the same upper horn strap placement as the Vader. The short scale makes it even more reachable. I'm 5'7" and have no issues at all with the reach. I would order, fear not.
Here's my second Short scale Vader. This one loaded with the radius single coils. My other has the radius humbuckers.
My first one was right at 9-10 weeks from order date. I thought that was great since NAMM happened in the middle of that 10 weeks. The yellow bass above was a "In stock" bass and got it in 4 days.
Dammit! What timing. I just saw an ad for the Vader on Facebook. I went and bought a couple of Steinberger Synapses used on Reverb just a few months ago. Wish I'd seen these Vader models before I pulled the trigger on them! ***smacks forehead*** The Synapses are fine, and sound great (the guitarist in my band loves the sound of them), but they have a few hardware quirks that I don't like, such as no individually adjustable saddles. I've always loved my Carvin basses, but had to dump a few of them because they were too heavy and would kill my back after playing a gig for a few sets, which is why I went for the lighter Steinies (I do still have my Carvin LB75 fretless that I bought back in the '90s). I'll have to look into these further and take a trip down to their San Diego showroom to check them out when I can scrape up the cash.
FYI, I came across this brief but positive review of the VB6 long-scale today:
Review - Kiesel Vader 6 String Headless Electric Bass - Bass Musician Magazine, The Face of Bass
Review - Kiesel Vader 6 String Headless Electric Bass - Bass Musician Magazine, The Face of Bass
Hi all, I just received my new Vader 4 string 2 days ago and figured I'd share my early impressions. Sorry for the length, but I tried to be as detailed as possible.
First off my specs (copied and pasted from my order):
Custom Shop Instrument Details:
Base Price: $ 1,199.00
VB4 - Kiesel Vader 4-String Headless Electric Bass
Right Handed
$ 100.00 - AC - Active/Passive Electronics (Guitars Have Coil Splitters, Phase Switch)
$ 0.00 - -CG - Clear Gloss Finish (Standard)
$ 50.00 - WAL - Maple Neck & Walnut Body
$ 120.00 - 5MW - 5-Piece Maple Neck w/ 2 Walnut Stripes
$ 30.00 - BMF - Birdseye Maple Fingerboa rd (Tung-Oiled)
$ 0.00 - IDIA - Diamond Inlays
$ 0.00 - IMP - Mother of Pearl Inlay Material
$ 0.00 - -WSD - Standard Side Dots (Standard)
$ 0.00 - -FR - Med-Jumbo Frets .048" H .103" W (Standard)
$ 0.00 - -R14 - 14in Fretboard Radius (Standard)
$ 0.00 - -BC - Black Hardware (Standard)
$ 0.00 - -BLK - Black Pickups
$ 0.00 - BL - Black Logo
$ 5.00 - STS - Dunlop Super Bright Stainless Steel Light Gauge
$ 60.00 - SC10B - Black Ultimate Soft Bass Case
--------------------------------------------------------------
$ 1,464.00 - Order Subtotal
$ 29.00 - Shipping & Handling
$ 100.00 - Options Discount
$ 1,493.00 - Your Order Total
Also, it is the 34inch scale. It took exactly 10 weeks and 1 day, from date of order till delivery.
A little background on me: I have owned many different custom basses over the last few years. Some I ordered to my own specs, some I bought second hand. To name a few, I've owned 2 different Lecomptes, a Bordwell, 2 different Status (Statii?), a Steinberger, a Muckleroy, 2 different Clements, custom shop Yamahas, a Jaydee, other off the shelf stuff too (from Fenders to Washburns) so my experience with bass instruments is pretty varied. I play 5 and 6 string basses primarily, but wanted a 4 banger to add to the stable. I've spent a bit of time finding out what I like and what I don't. I really love the idea, and what I consider to be a technical improvement, of the headless design. It makes more sense overall and is an evolution of the bass that I think should be more widespread. The direct pull of tuners at the bridge make a lot more sense from an "engineering" and ease of use standpoint. The absence of a headstock pretty much eliminates neck dive, makes access to the truss rod adjustment super easy, and not having that extra six inches of headstock sticking off helps to keep you from bashing into the drummer's crash symbol or your guitarist's shoulders if you're clumsy like me
. I'm assuming though, if you are here considering a Vader, you don't need to be sold on a headless design.
I've had other headless basses, namely 2 Status basses (a Kingbass, and an early model S1) and a Steinberger Synapse, but moved them on. Not because I didn't like the headless aspect, but because of other aspects of the basses that I couldn't get along with, or considered poorly executed.
First off, all of the other headless models I tried were made with a lot of graphite, and I personally just don't like the tone that graphite imparts. There's a certain type of "growliness" (for lack of a better term) that colors the tone, and in my experience, it can't be dialed out with the electronics. This may not be a bad thing, if that is the tone you are looking for, but it just isn't my cup of tea. This "minus" to me, was especially evident in the Status S1, since it was an all graphite body and neck. Though ergonomically it was the best of the headless models I've had, the tone of that bass was just something I didn't care for .
Next up, the other headless models I tried suffered from issues of ergonomics that I couldn't get along with. The Steinberger Synapse and the Status Kingbass both had bodies that were too short for me. The issue that other's have commented on in earlier posts in this thread: the placement of the upper horn being too short and thus pushing the neck too far out to the left (making lower fret access more difficult) was very prevalent in both of those models. The Kingbass body, though wide, was too short, while the Steiny's body was just way too small in all dimensions. Neither bass could hang in a comfortable playing position sitting or standing, despite all the configurations of strap adjustments I tried. They seemed to be designed to basically hang high up on your chest almost parallel to the floor...maybe good for slapping (ala Mark King), but definitely not for finger style playing.
So, I decided to give the Vader a try...I figured what could I lose? I'd been wanting to get another headless for some time. It was relatively inexpensive compared to other customs made basses, and there is a money-back guarantee if you decide you don't like it.
Thus far this bass has exceeded my expectations. It doesn't suffer from any of the ergonomic problems I've had with other headless models. The body is slightly smaller than most bass bodies, but it hangs perfectly on me. Nice angled playing position especially when standing. Obviously no neck dive whatsoever. The lower frets ARE pushed out slightly more than a headed bass with a larger body. It is noticeable, and might require a small bit of getting used to, but it's definitely not to the point of being uncomfortable. At least not for me, and I'm an average height a 5' 10" guy. I am used to playing 35 inch scale instruments for the most part, and I ordered a 34 inch scale for the Vader. This Vader is just as comfortable for me as my other 35 inch scale basses. I would imagine that if you were to order an even shorter scale, the playing position would be even less noticeable. Unless you have very short arms or are just very particular about not having to reach in the slightest bit for frets 1 and 2, I'd opine that this isn't really an issue to worry about for most people on the Vader.
The neck profile was something I was a bit worried about when ordering this. I was expecting something on the thick and clunky side, but it is definitely not that. I was pleasantly surprised with the thickness and feel of the Vader neck. Upper fret access is superb too, actually it may be the best yet of any bass I've tried. So if you like to play a lot of melodic stuff in the upper registers, this is definitely a good choice. My only issue with the neck is that I should have added the option of a satin or oil finish on the neck. The high gloss finish is just a little too sticky, and it's something I plan to remedy with a bit of steel wool. My recommendation is to spend the little bit extra and go for a non-gloss neck. Set-up came with super low action, and I mean super low. If this isn't something you like then you may want to readjust the saddles a bit when you get it. No complaint from me though, I like low action and it's good to know the fret-board and neck can take it.
Weight-wise, it is very comfortable. I ordered a solid walnut body, which means it is obviously heavier than the alder that comes standard. Due to it's small body size though, I'd say it is in the 7 to 8 lb range with the walnut. I'm used to pretty heavy basses though, so for me this is lightweight. If you stuck with an alder, swamp ash, or mahogany body I'm sure the weight would be barely noticeable. I'm a walnut body guy though personally, the tone and beauty of the wood is a good trade off for the extra couple of pounds IMO. It's just what I like.
Build quality: equal to, and in some cases even surpasses, any other custom instrument I've owned or played. If this is something you are concerned about, I can simply say don't be. The woods Kiesel chose were beautiful (and I didn't go for anything fancy, just solid walnut body wings, no top-wood, 5 pc maple neck with walnut stringers). It's obvious they know their way around a woodshop, and have great quality control. The finish (high gloss) is absolutely immaculate. The bass is gorgeous.
Tone and electronics. Okay, I've read lots of reviews over the years about Carvin pickups and electronics being sub-par. Not the case here. I almost went with a purely passive bass, but decided at the last minute to order the active electronics package. I couldn't be happier with the preamp and pickups. Very very versatile; everything from a dirty growling to the burpy Jaco finger style on the bridge pickup, to a softer smooth or boomy bass neck pickup tone...along with everything in between blended. You can dial in a huge variation. This is the thing that probably exceeded my expectations the most...especially at only $100 added cost to the bass, I wasn't expecting such versatility and quality of sound. All of my other basses have always had higher-end expensive electronics, usually adding $300-$400 to the instrument's cost. All I can say is, don't shy away from the active electronic package on these Kiesels, it's well worth the small added cost. Plus you can still switch to passive if you desire by pulling up on the volume knob, which sounds great BTW too.
Here's the only negative complaint I've got so far. I wish the headpiece could accept double ball end strings. If there was one thing I could suggest to Kiesel, it is to redesign the headpiece to accept both double ball and standard strings. I was expecting that it would, but it doesn't...only having grub screws to use with standard strings. This is something Status got right on their headpieces, having the ability to accept both standard and double-ball end strings. I like double ball end for the simplicity of changing strings and always considered them advancement in design...no tools needed, nothing to cut, no screws to tighten.
So overall, I'm obviously very happy with this bass. It far exceeded my expectations, and corrected some of the things that I didn't like about other headless models I've tried. If you're on the fence about purchasing one, definitely pull trigger. You will certainly get your money's worth considering what you get for the price: a customizable, quality built, well thought-out instrument. The fact that you can try a made to order instrument, and return it for nothing more than shipping costs if you don't like it, is unheard of in the rest of the custom bass industry too.
Hopefully I covered everything, but feel free to hit me up with any questions. Now...off to the woodshed!
See below for a couple pics.
First off my specs (copied and pasted from my order):
Custom Shop Instrument Details:
Base Price: $ 1,199.00
VB4 - Kiesel Vader 4-String Headless Electric Bass
Right Handed
$ 100.00 - AC - Active/Passive Electronics (Guitars Have Coil Splitters, Phase Switch)
$ 0.00 - -CG - Clear Gloss Finish (Standard)
$ 50.00 - WAL - Maple Neck & Walnut Body
$ 120.00 - 5MW - 5-Piece Maple Neck w/ 2 Walnut Stripes
$ 30.00 - BMF - Birdseye Maple Fingerboa rd (Tung-Oiled)
$ 0.00 - IDIA - Diamond Inlays
$ 0.00 - IMP - Mother of Pearl Inlay Material
$ 0.00 - -WSD - Standard Side Dots (Standard)
$ 0.00 - -FR - Med-Jumbo Frets .048" H .103" W (Standard)
$ 0.00 - -R14 - 14in Fretboard Radius (Standard)
$ 0.00 - -BC - Black Hardware (Standard)
$ 0.00 - -BLK - Black Pickups
$ 0.00 - BL - Black Logo
$ 5.00 - STS - Dunlop Super Bright Stainless Steel Light Gauge
$ 60.00 - SC10B - Black Ultimate Soft Bass Case
--------------------------------------------------------------
$ 1,464.00 - Order Subtotal
$ 29.00 - Shipping & Handling
$ 100.00 - Options Discount
$ 1,493.00 - Your Order Total
Also, it is the 34inch scale. It took exactly 10 weeks and 1 day, from date of order till delivery.
A little background on me: I have owned many different custom basses over the last few years. Some I ordered to my own specs, some I bought second hand. To name a few, I've owned 2 different Lecomptes, a Bordwell, 2 different Status (Statii?), a Steinberger, a Muckleroy, 2 different Clements, custom shop Yamahas, a Jaydee, other off the shelf stuff too (from Fenders to Washburns) so my experience with bass instruments is pretty varied. I play 5 and 6 string basses primarily, but wanted a 4 banger to add to the stable. I've spent a bit of time finding out what I like and what I don't. I really love the idea, and what I consider to be a technical improvement, of the headless design. It makes more sense overall and is an evolution of the bass that I think should be more widespread. The direct pull of tuners at the bridge make a lot more sense from an "engineering" and ease of use standpoint. The absence of a headstock pretty much eliminates neck dive, makes access to the truss rod adjustment super easy, and not having that extra six inches of headstock sticking off helps to keep you from bashing into the drummer's crash symbol or your guitarist's shoulders if you're clumsy like me
. I'm assuming though, if you are here considering a Vader, you don't need to be sold on a headless design.I've had other headless basses, namely 2 Status basses (a Kingbass, and an early model S1) and a Steinberger Synapse, but moved them on. Not because I didn't like the headless aspect, but because of other aspects of the basses that I couldn't get along with, or considered poorly executed.
First off, all of the other headless models I tried were made with a lot of graphite, and I personally just don't like the tone that graphite imparts. There's a certain type of "growliness" (for lack of a better term) that colors the tone, and in my experience, it can't be dialed out with the electronics. This may not be a bad thing, if that is the tone you are looking for, but it just isn't my cup of tea. This "minus" to me, was especially evident in the Status S1, since it was an all graphite body and neck. Though ergonomically it was the best of the headless models I've had, the tone of that bass was just something I didn't care for .
Next up, the other headless models I tried suffered from issues of ergonomics that I couldn't get along with. The Steinberger Synapse and the Status Kingbass both had bodies that were too short for me. The issue that other's have commented on in earlier posts in this thread: the placement of the upper horn being too short and thus pushing the neck too far out to the left (making lower fret access more difficult) was very prevalent in both of those models. The Kingbass body, though wide, was too short, while the Steiny's body was just way too small in all dimensions. Neither bass could hang in a comfortable playing position sitting or standing, despite all the configurations of strap adjustments I tried. They seemed to be designed to basically hang high up on your chest almost parallel to the floor...maybe good for slapping (ala Mark King), but definitely not for finger style playing.
So, I decided to give the Vader a try...I figured what could I lose? I'd been wanting to get another headless for some time. It was relatively inexpensive compared to other customs made basses, and there is a money-back guarantee if you decide you don't like it.
Thus far this bass has exceeded my expectations. It doesn't suffer from any of the ergonomic problems I've had with other headless models. The body is slightly smaller than most bass bodies, but it hangs perfectly on me. Nice angled playing position especially when standing. Obviously no neck dive whatsoever. The lower frets ARE pushed out slightly more than a headed bass with a larger body. It is noticeable, and might require a small bit of getting used to, but it's definitely not to the point of being uncomfortable. At least not for me, and I'm an average height a 5' 10" guy. I am used to playing 35 inch scale instruments for the most part, and I ordered a 34 inch scale for the Vader. This Vader is just as comfortable for me as my other 35 inch scale basses. I would imagine that if you were to order an even shorter scale, the playing position would be even less noticeable. Unless you have very short arms or are just very particular about not having to reach in the slightest bit for frets 1 and 2, I'd opine that this isn't really an issue to worry about for most people on the Vader.
The neck profile was something I was a bit worried about when ordering this. I was expecting something on the thick and clunky side, but it is definitely not that. I was pleasantly surprised with the thickness and feel of the Vader neck. Upper fret access is superb too, actually it may be the best yet of any bass I've tried. So if you like to play a lot of melodic stuff in the upper registers, this is definitely a good choice. My only issue with the neck is that I should have added the option of a satin or oil finish on the neck. The high gloss finish is just a little too sticky, and it's something I plan to remedy with a bit of steel wool. My recommendation is to spend the little bit extra and go for a non-gloss neck. Set-up came with super low action, and I mean super low. If this isn't something you like then you may want to readjust the saddles a bit when you get it. No complaint from me though, I like low action and it's good to know the fret-board and neck can take it.
Weight-wise, it is very comfortable. I ordered a solid walnut body, which means it is obviously heavier than the alder that comes standard. Due to it's small body size though, I'd say it is in the 7 to 8 lb range with the walnut. I'm used to pretty heavy basses though, so for me this is lightweight. If you stuck with an alder, swamp ash, or mahogany body I'm sure the weight would be barely noticeable. I'm a walnut body guy though personally, the tone and beauty of the wood is a good trade off for the extra couple of pounds IMO. It's just what I like.
Build quality: equal to, and in some cases even surpasses, any other custom instrument I've owned or played. If this is something you are concerned about, I can simply say don't be. The woods Kiesel chose were beautiful (and I didn't go for anything fancy, just solid walnut body wings, no top-wood, 5 pc maple neck with walnut stringers). It's obvious they know their way around a woodshop, and have great quality control. The finish (high gloss) is absolutely immaculate. The bass is gorgeous.
Tone and electronics. Okay, I've read lots of reviews over the years about Carvin pickups and electronics being sub-par. Not the case here. I almost went with a purely passive bass, but decided at the last minute to order the active electronics package. I couldn't be happier with the preamp and pickups. Very very versatile; everything from a dirty growling to the burpy Jaco finger style on the bridge pickup, to a softer smooth or boomy bass neck pickup tone...along with everything in between blended. You can dial in a huge variation. This is the thing that probably exceeded my expectations the most...especially at only $100 added cost to the bass, I wasn't expecting such versatility and quality of sound. All of my other basses have always had higher-end expensive electronics, usually adding $300-$400 to the instrument's cost. All I can say is, don't shy away from the active electronic package on these Kiesels, it's well worth the small added cost. Plus you can still switch to passive if you desire by pulling up on the volume knob, which sounds great BTW too.
Here's the only negative complaint I've got so far. I wish the headpiece could accept double ball end strings. If there was one thing I could suggest to Kiesel, it is to redesign the headpiece to accept both double ball and standard strings. I was expecting that it would, but it doesn't...only having grub screws to use with standard strings. This is something Status got right on their headpieces, having the ability to accept both standard and double-ball end strings. I like double ball end for the simplicity of changing strings and always considered them advancement in design...no tools needed, nothing to cut, no screws to tighten.
So overall, I'm obviously very happy with this bass. It far exceeded my expectations, and corrected some of the things that I didn't like about other headless models I've tried. If you're on the fence about purchasing one, definitely pull trigger. You will certainly get your money's worth considering what you get for the price: a customizable, quality built, well thought-out instrument. The fact that you can try a made to order instrument, and return it for nothing more than shipping costs if you don't like it, is unheard of in the rest of the custom bass industry too.
Hopefully I covered everything, but feel free to hit me up with any questions. Now...off to the woodshed!
See below for a couple pics.
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Any idea if Carvin/Keisel plans to offer the Vader with the multi scale option as they do for the guitars? It's kind of a bummer they don't already. I like the idea of the headless, compact body but if I'm going to try one out I want the fan frets.
I would say contact them directly. From what I understand there are some custom shop options they offer that aren't listed in the features on their website.
Edit: I got to thinking about this a little more, and I kind of doubt they offer a fanned fret option on the bass. It would require a completely different type of bridge...either something completely custom for a one piece bridge, or single string bridge pieces (ala Status) that could be spaced diagonally. You never know though, they may have an option for you.
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