CBS report: Earth's resources are running out.

[MatticusMania]

Yeah, okay. That makes sense, energetically speaking.

I'm not saying that there are no advantages to hydrogen gas as a fuel. Quite the reverse. But what I am saying is that hydrogen is not an answer to an energy shortage as it is not a primary energy resource (like I tried to make clear in my list above, post #126).

Every home should be equipped with a Drip Action Hydroelectric Generator!

 

[NWB]

Scientifically? Im a philosopher, not a scientist. I can only answer the why's, not the hows.

I could easily see us drinking and yapping about this stuff on my back patio for a whole night. The scientist and the philosopher duking it out!

 

[jmattbassplaya]

Well, we're already reaching an apex of life expectancy. They say the present generation will be the first one in a looonnng time to not live as long as their parents. This might contribute to a leveling. Also, as the world develops (and it all will eventually) their birthrates will follow the developed world I presume.

That's just in the US though, or at least in countries with obesity rates as high as ours.

 

[jmattbassplaya]

Scientifically? Im a philosopher, not a scientist.

Dammit, Jim. I'm a doctor.

 

[MatticusMania]

I could easily see us drinking and yapping about this stuff on my back patio for a whole night. The scientist and the philosopher duking it out!

I see Science and Philosophy going hand in hand. The two most important questions man can ask being "How?" and "Why?". Science is great at providing reason for the former, while philosophy does its best to find suitable reason, all based on perspective, for the latter.

"it is certain that in all nature harmony and movement are the result of the equilibirum of opposing or contrary forces."

"Science perishes by systems that are nothing but beliefs; and Faith succumbs to reasoning."

 

[UncleFluffy]

I see Science and Philosophy going hand in hand. The two most important questions man can ask being "How?" and "Why?".

Hey, what about us engineers?

Please allow me to put in a plug for "Is this useful?" and "Does it work?" as "most important questions" as well

 

[MatticusMania]

Hey, what about us engineers?

Please allow me to put in a plug for "Is this useful?" and "Does it work?" as "most important questions" as well

Is this useful = Why
Does it work = How

You engineers always see things in such a complex manner.
Engineering = Science

Always wanting to feel special, too.

 

[NWB]

I see Science and Philosophy going hand in hand. The two most important questions man can ask being "How?" and "Why?". Science is great at providing reason for the former, while philosophy does its best to find suitable reason, all based on perspective, for the latter.

"it is certain that in all nature harmony and movement are the result of the equilibirum of opposing or contrary forces."

"Science perishes by systems that are nothing but beliefs; and Faith succumbs to reasoning."

Yeah, the "duking it out" part was rather tongue-in-cheek. I have no doubt we'd agree on most things.

 

[jmattbassplaya]

Hey, what about us engineers?

Please allow me to put in a plug for "Is this useful?" and "Does it work?" as "most important questions" as well

And don't forget the business position - "how can I exploit this to make the largest profit possible?"

 

[MatticusMania]

Yeah, the "duking it out" part was rather tongue-in-cheek. I have no doubt we'd agree on most things.

Oh, I knew you were being tongue in cheek.
And Im sure if/when we didnt agree one of us would leave with a new perspective.

And don't forget the business position - "how can I exploit this to make the largest profit possible?"

Thats just looking for a how when the why is already answered.

Also, note I said "two most important", not the only two.

 

[GregC]

You are right Bill. But nortonrider is on the right track to consider all of the energy inputs needed to access other energy sources. Using his line of thinking, there probably are grades of coal and/or very deep deposits that may require more energy than you'd get out of them.

The US has vastly more petroleum than Saudi Arabia in the Green River Shale formation. Why can't we just dig that up and process it into useable oil?

Because to separate the petroleum from the rock requires somewhat more energy than you'd get out of it. Energy return on energy invested. Not to mention limitations on the significant amounts of water needed for the process. The deposits are located in an arid region.

Returning to the concept of energy return on energy invested provides some insight on currently high oil prices. More energy (and capital) is needed to access the remaining oil reserves. Getting oil from the current deepwaters, arctic regions, and oil sands is much more expensive than shallow on-land sweet crude reserviors that are reaching depletion limits.

Also, shale oil processing is expensive--$70-$95 a barrel according to the Rand Corp., and that's not even including transport.

 

[Mousekillaz]

More of Al Gores koolaid

 

[Simo98]

Where are they going?

Other than occasionally sending something off into space, it's all still here, we just need to stop burying our "spent" resources in the dirt and start using them more effectively.

 

[NWB]

Also, shale oil processing is expensive--$70-$95 a barrel according to the Rand Corp., and that's not even including transport.

Are you sure that's for oil shale and not oil tar sands?

Seems about right for Canadian tar sands, but really low for oil shale.

 

[Eric Perry]

We ought to change the thread title.

"CBS report: Earth's resources are finite."

I'd probably bet decent money that someone, somewhere would still say "Nonsense".

Oh I have NO doubt!

 

[Bassamatic]

Too Many people - population has to be controlled or there will be no future. The Pope has to realize that his continued Doctrine of no Birth control is killing millions of people, and others have to get in line with this as well.

Meanwhile - the car makers just keep building Bigger and BIGGER and more powerful and thirsty cars as demanded by the soccer moms and other egocentrics. WHY is an Accord now the size of a Chevy? And - hybrids are not the answer. They take more energy to develop, make and recycle than they save, and use plenty of energy to create the electricity. From an engineer's point of view they are a stupid detour.

And yes - processing oil from shale and the tar sands is REALLY REALLY expensive and may not even be feasible.

 

[MIJ-VI]

"...as demanded by the soccer moms and other egocentrics."

lol

 

[Skitch it!]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Externality#Negative

'Take the money and run
Take the money and run
Take the money

Here I'm allowed
Everything all of the time
Here I'm allowed
Everything all of the time'

Radiohead - Idioteque.

 

[oniman7]

This is certainly nothing new. I just skimmed the article, but it basically told me "we're using so much that at one point we'll run out" which has kind of been assumed for a very long time...

 

[elgecko]

...Meanwhile - the car makers just keep building Bigger and BIGGER and more powerful and thirsty cars as demanded by the soccer moms and other egocentrics. WHY is an Accord now the size of a Chevy? And - hybrids are not the answer. They take more energy to develop, make and recycle than they save, and use plenty of energy to create the electricity. From an engineer's point of view they are a stupid detour...

I have to disagree with you on this point. The Ford Excursion was shelved long ago and Hummer has gone the way of the Dodo. The big three have figured out how to make full size V-8 pickups that somehow get better milelage than my 10 year old 4 cylinder pickup. I'm seeing more and more mini cars (e.g. Smart Cars, Fiats, and Scion iQs, etc) on the streets and I can't pass a used car lot that doesn't have a couple of lifted diesel Super Duties for sale.

I honestly never thought I'd see these kinds of changes. I suppose gas breaking $4/gallon has something to do with it.