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Celestion speaker replacement question.

For guitar, 100W offers a pretty stupid amount of power.


Do you just line the cab a little bit with it? How does one get it to stick to the walls?
100 watts is plenty for almost any situation on guitar.

To stick sound treatment foam inside my Peavey Headliner, (which ships with some random tissue paper stapled inside) I used industrial contact cement. It's like rubber cement, and may be exactly rubber cement, but I'm not positive on that.
You paint both surfaces with your least favorite brush or spatula and let it dry for a few minutes, or you overpaint the foam and then press it to the inside of the cab and remove it.
Rotate it as you remove it or little glue strings will get everywhere.
When it's almost dry(about 5 minutes) you press it into place and it's very permanent. Be sure to lightly clean the wood surface inside with denatured alcohol to remove any surface oils first.
This process turned my boxy harmonic overtone nightmare Peavey Headliner into a tight faithful signal reproduction device. It cost about $40 for the acoustic foam and the glue. I also resealed the interior and reseated and sealed the handles, drivers and electronics panel with black silicone while I had it opened up.
 
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Am I missing something? I'm plugging in parameters for the Celestion BN12-300S into the DIY Audio & Video Speaker Box Enclosure Designer/Calculator with published specifications and clicking "Compute Sealed Box" and for dimensions, I'm getting this:

View attachment 2968065


This is what I get for the TN1020, the 10" that I like so much:

View attachment 2968067


This is what I get for the TN1225, the 12" from the same range that I have somewhat considered:

View attachment 2968068


What's with these tiny Vb numbers? Are Celestion bass and midrange drivers THAT different from industry standard?
Just because those enclosures allow the speaker to work within optimal physical ranges doesn't mean they sound the best to you for your particular use.
 
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Do you just line the cab a little bit with it? How does one get it to stick to the walls?
You can line the walls of a sealed cab with various absorbing material, but they are usually just stuffed. Poly-fill is cheap, available and easy to work with. You just stuff it in wherever you can, usually through the speaker hole, get it about half full and test it. Just be careful stuffing around the wires so they don't bend the terminals, pull loose or break something. Loose stuffed. The only other risk I can think of would be damaging the speaker or fasteners (drop, pushing a thumb or tool through the cone, etc.). Speaker mounting screws, get them back in loose, then just snug them in a criss-cross pattern, then check in a few weeks. All is easier if you can lay it on it's back. It doesn't matter where the stuffing's go or how accurate, just guess half or even can go by thirds, let it expand to it's natural size. You're just looking for an improvement or not, then add more, take out etc.
 
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One major challenge with a very small Vb is that often the driver simply won't fit inside the box!

For gtr, .6CF is generally ok, you may not like the flavor of the damping though, tends to sound pretty dry, stiff, lifeless (unless that's what you are looking for).
 
I've never built a geetar cab, and I think I've run dry on anything that can help Honey'skewl. This timely though, because I have 4 guit cabs to build and need to get at least one done before the end of April for my wife's birthday. It's good to know about the drawback of an open back. Her existing combo (a bit heavy for her) is semi-open back with a removable panel to go full open. I'll be starting with the easiest, a small 30 Watt combo.
 
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One major challenge with a very small Vb is that often the driver simply won't fit inside the box!

For gtr, .6CF is generally ok, you may not like the flavor of the damping though, tends to sound pretty dry, stiff, lifeless (unless that's what you are looking for).
Ha. Your first point is definitely true. I tried to see if a Celestion Alnico speaker would fit (for fun, didn’t expect it to work), and the cabinet just laughed at me.

And I think I might like dry and lifeless. Maybe a little bit of poly fill in the 12” cabinet might help take out a little bit of boxiness, but overall, these are live and rehearsal amps, and I’m finding that these little closed back cabs really cut through the stage mix. I have a 18 watt open back 1x12” combo for home and recording use and that thing is massive. But as good as that thing sounds in controlled environments, I think closed backs help me hear myself live without too much volume.
 
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I've never built a geetar cab, and I think I've run dry on anything that can help Honey'skewl. This timely though, because I have 4 guit cabs to build and need to get at least one done before the end of April for my wife's birthday. It's good to know about the drawback of an open back. Her existing combo (a bit heavy for her) is semi-open back with a removable panel to go full open. I'll be starting with the easiest, a small 30 Watt combo.
Generally my favorite cabs in the past have been 1x12” nearly closed, more vented than open, about the size of a Vox combo, so quite big. Usually about 24” by 18” by 10.25”. I like a Celestion Alnico speaker, which are very expensive, but have so much vibe. Unfortunately a cabinet as I have described is quite heavy. I generally don’t like more than one speaker in a cab because I feel like one speaker just sounds better, more immediate. I also like 1x10” cabinets with the right 10” speaker, Celestion Vintage G10 is one of my favorites. For weight and power handling, though, you can’t beat the Jensen Tornado, which is a 100 watt neo speaker that has tons of character and is available as 10” or 12”.

I think the biggest downside to most guitar cabs is you just can’t hear the darned things because they generally flap at the guitarist’s legs. When you build your cab, try to address that issue. A little built in angle goes a long way. The Quilters seem to have about a 12 degree built in angle. Most Fender tweed style cabinets have less of an angle but they do try, and every little bit counts. I don’t think it’s a good idea to go 45 degrees or anything, but something in that 10-20 range will be cool when you’re in front of the cabinet. It would be a woodworking challenge to make an angled baffle, though, which is probably why most people don’t bother.

Also, my experience with Quilter is letting me know that I like very hi-fi speakers, too. Lot of players swear by these EV12 speakers that are very popular and very accurate (and very heavy) with no cone cry or distortion. I think what Quilter decided is, if many players like EV12 speakers which are basically like PA speakers, why not just get an 8” speaker like the TF0818 and just put that in a closed back cabinet of appropriate size? So a lot of their combos are exactly that: an 8” midrange driver in a tiny angled closed back. And as you know from bass cabs, you know what that means: crazy dispersion. You can hear that thing anywhere on stage. Even my angled 12” combo disperses very well.

I think half stacks are absolutely overrated. I don’t think they sound as good as a well designed 1x12” and they don’t disperse well. And are heavy and uneconomical. They’re good at throwing sound waves out there on stage but that’s about it.

There’s something magical about a Celestion Alnico speaker in an open back that just gets lost when you put a PA speaker in a closed back. But you lose most of that magic at stage volume when there are cymbals eating up the higher frequencies and you only need the mids to push your tone through. I still insist on recording with Alnico, though, because they distort and compress magically.

I think my ideal cab would be a very light 1x12” with 1/2” ply, about 20”x16”x10”, give or take an inch, almost closed with maybe some narrow vents, or maybe just about 4” open so I can throw the speaker cable in the back of the cab. MojoTone makes a light cabinet with almost the right size that you can see what I’m talking about. Make sure the jack is not dead center in the back panel so that it doesn’t get in the way of the driver magnet. It would have an angled baffle for sure. I think I want the box to be straight, only the baffle angled. And as heavy as Alnico speakers tend to be, for me, it’s worth the extra 5 pounds to have a Celestion Alnico Cream. It’s the best speaker that money can buy, IMO.

That would be my dream cab for sure.
 
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Generally my favorite cabs in the past have been 1x12” nearly closed, more vented than open, about the size of a Vox combo, so quite big. Usually about 24” by 18” by 10.25”. I like a Celestion Alnico speaker, which are very expensive, but have so much vibe. Unfortunately a cabinet as I have described is quite heavy. I generally don’t like more than one speaker in a cab because I feel like one speaker just sounds better, more immediate. I also like 1x10” cabinets with the right 10” speaker, Celestion Vintage G10 is one of my favorites. For weight and power handling, though, you can’t beat the Jensen Tornado, which is a 100 watt neo speaker that has tons of character and is available as 10” or 12”.

I think the biggest downside to most guitar cabs is you just can’t hear the darned things because they generally flap at the guitarist’s legs. When you build your cab, try to address that issue. A little built in angle goes a long way. The Quilters seem to have about a 12 degree built in angle. Most Fender tweed style cabinets have less of an angle but they do try, and every little bit counts. I don’t think it’s a good idea to go 45 degrees or anything, but something in that 10-20 range will be cool when you’re in front of the cabinet. It would be a woodworking challenge to make an angled baffle, though, which is probably why most people don’t bother.

Also, my experience with Quilter is letting me know that I like very hi-fi speakers, too. Lot of players swear by these EV12 speakers that are very popular and very accurate (and very heavy) with no cone cry or distortion. I think what Quilter decided is, if many players like EV12 speakers which are basically like PA speakers, why not just get an 8” speaker like the TF0818 and just put that in a closed back cabinet of appropriate size? So a lot of their combos are exactly that: an 8” midrange driver in a tiny angled closed back. And as you know from bass cabs, you know what that means: crazy dispersion. You can hear that thing anywhere on stage. Even my angled 12” combo disperses very well.

I think half stacks are absolutely overrated. I don’t think they sound as good as a well designed 1x12” and they don’t disperse well. And are heavy and uneconomical. They’re good at throwing sound waves out there on stage but that’s about it.

There’s something magical about a Celestion Alnico speaker in an open back that just gets lost when you put a PA speaker in a closed back. But you lose most of that magic at stage volume when there are cymbals eating up the higher frequencies and you only need the mids to push your tone through. I still insist on recording with Alnico, though, because they distort and compress magically.

I think my ideal cab would be a very light 1x12” with 1/2” ply, about 20”x16”x10”, give or take an inch, almost closed with maybe some narrow vents, or maybe just about 4” open so I can throw the speaker cable in the back of the cab. MojoTone makes a light cabinet with almost the right size that you can see what I’m talking about. Make sure the jack is not dead center in the back panel so that it doesn’t get in the way of the driver magnet. It would have an angled baffle for sure. I think I want the box to be straight, only the baffle angled. And as heavy as Alnico speakers tend to be, for me, it’s worth the extra 5 pounds to have a Celestion Alnico Cream. It’s the best speaker that money can buy, IMO.

That would be my dream cab for sure.
Thank you for all that information! I’m going to have to do some experimentation. I have a ton of speakers of varying quality. I was going to start with a bunch of small 4 or 5” drivers on the tiny rig. Maybe I’ll go with a single 10 or 12. 12’s I have are a bit heavy though... and l’m not against buying an expensive Alnico either. I’m making the baffle easy to remove and replace for fails/mind changes :D
 
Thank you for all that information! I’m going to have to do some experimentation. I have a ton of speakers of varying quality. I was going to start with a bunch of small 4 or 5” drivers on the tiny rig. Maybe I’ll go with a single 10 or 12. 12’s I have are a bit heavy though... and l’m not against buying an expensive Alnico either. I’m making the baffle easy to remove and replace for fails/mind changes :D
Good idea! Fender baffles are often just in there with four screws. My Vibrolux and Deluxe were both done that way. Weirdly enough the Princeton baffle has eight screws holding it. If you plan ahead, maybe all your cabs can use the same baffles.

I think if you get the right wood and use skillful joins, you should be able to get a basic six sided box going for 15 pounds or less, maybe a lot less. That means even with a 10 pound speaker, it’s not too bad. Of course once you add the combo chassis... maybe you’ll wish you saved 5 pounds on the driver. Or maybe you can just try to convince your dearest that maybe the Quilter 101 Reverb is the way to go. You should check out the Blockdock 10TC as an example of what you can do with a Class D amp. :D 10s are kind of a sweet spot for driver weight and performance.

And I forgot to mention that the other upside to a Celestion heavy magnet speaker is that they’re super efficient. Which is good or bad but generally good. And I swear, their 100 dB is louder than Eminence 103 dB.
 
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I have a 3 cu ft sealed 15 I made for bass, both front and rear are removable and sealed with rubber weatherstrip. Those are held in with pocket screws to 1 x 2's inside. I made the rear removable so I could move it inwards for a smaller cab. Very strong, but 3/4" plywood.

I was tempted by 1/4" plywood in part of micro-mini, but chickened out. They didn't have 3/8" in decent quality here, so I'll go with half. That will work with the corners I have on hand.

And I swear, their 100 dB is louder than Eminence 103 dB.
Really, with performance specs, IMO you can only get an accurate comparison between different speakers of the same brand. If Eminence tested the Celestion in their room and conditions, it might well come out higher than Celestion rated it. That does not mean either is dishonest in their ratings.
 
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I have a 3 cu ft sealed 15 I made for bass, both front and rear are removable and sealed with rubber weatherstrip. Those are held in with pocket screws to 1 x 2's inside. I made the rear removable so I could move it inwards for a smaller cab. Very strong, but 3/4" plywood.

I was tempted by 1/4" plywood in part of micro-mini, but chickened out. They didn't have 3/8" in decent quality here, so I'll go with half. That will work with the corners I have on hand.


Really, with performance specs, IMO you can only get an accurate comparison between different speakers of the same brand. If Eminence tested the Celestion in their room and conditions, it might well come out higher than Celestion rated it. That does not mean either is dishonest in their ratings.
That 15 probably already sounds pretty good for guitar!

I’ve always loved the sound of a good 15. They have outstanding presence and efficiency. You can get serious decibels out of them.
 
I looked up the cream and that's pretty affordable. I'll see how it goes with what I have. I do have three Carvin issue Celestions, the same in my wife's current combo. Bought to make her a 2nd 2 x 12 for that, the 3rd as a spare as Carvin had folded. I might try that spare in this first build. Very nice head for this one, but the next will be really interesting.
 
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That 15 probably already sounds pretty good for guitar!

I’ve always loved the sound of a good 15. They have outstanding presence and efficiency. You can get serious decibels out of them.
That one probably would! The driver in native form would come up a bit short and be dark, but it's had an aluminum dust cover added and I have to tone it down with eq for bass. It probably goes as high as most guitar driver go.

And I do appreciate the tips! And you sharing of experience. I have none, and my wife is just learning to play now.
 
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I looked up the cream and that's pretty affordable. I'll see how it goes with what I have. I do have three Carvin issue Celestions, the same in my wife's current combo. Bought to make her a 2nd 2 x 12 for that, the 3rd as a spare as Carvin had folded. I might try that spare in this first build. Very nice head for this one, but the next will be really interesting.
That’s probably a V30 variant. Those are loved by many, and then hated by others. Very mixed opinions on them. Metal players like them. And so do clean players. Those who fall in the middle seem the most torn about it.

They cut through a mix like nothing else with a pronounced midrange presence bump. I think that’s why clean and metal players like them, but players who want to have smooth overdriven tone don’t. At ten pounds, they’re rather heavy.

That one probably would! The driver in native form would come up a bit short and be dark, but it's had an aluminum dust cover added and I have to tone it down with eq for bass. It probably goes as high as most guitar driver go.

And I do appreciate the tips! And you sharing of experience. I have none, and my wife is just learning to play now.
As a bass player, you understand sound tone at a scientific level. I think if you just go with 60% science and 40% intuition, vs. bass where it’s like more 90% science, unless you’re strictly a fridge player, then you can build things that can outperform guitar tradition while still saving some weight and all that.
 
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You nailed it! I just tried the 15 using this head Invalid Link Removed and her guitar. Sounded very nice.
Great!

Also because of this thread, I was about to poly fill my cabinet.

Then when I went back to the combos and tried them out, turns out both of the combos sound good in different ways and it’s actually not that boxy. I dialed in a tiny bit of dark reverb with short trail to add a little bit of ambience and that thickens up the tone nicely, too. I think knowing that the speaker does actually have ample cubic inches behind it removes some of the doubt I might have about the speaker, too. Perhaps it was a mental block that was keeping me from dialing it in via the controls and wondering if there is a speaker issue.

Thanks to everyone for the help!!
 
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