Certainbass "Svelte Bass" Kickstarter

[Iridescentone]

No, you wouldn't. Your hand is already above the strings, with your thumb in line with the roller controls. Yes, you would reach over to roll one of them, but you wouldn't need to reach "up and over;" you're already "up."

Okay then, let's not split hairs over how far "up" one needs to go, with how far "down" one needs to go. I'll concede the two inch difference. Point being, you still have to entirely move your hand from playing position to the controls, then back again with either setup. They look equidistant to me. I mean, what are we trying to do here....change settings at lightning speed so we can shred chords on the downstroke like guitards....or play bass?

Know what? The more I think about it, the more the Svelte looks like a guitarists idea of what a bass should be. (not that there's anything wrong with that)

 

[Dradder]

If this was any sort of actual benefit the bass market would have been flooded with controls on top decades ago.

By that reasoning, no improvements to bass design are possible, because if they were possible, they would have been made already.

Beyond that, what Hendrix did with a Strat has nothing to do with how anyone plays bass. Irrelevant name dropping.

This strikes me as a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" proposition. If he hadn't mentioned Hendrix, certain types would have been all over him like ticks on a hound, saying, "That isn't an original design! Jimi did the exact same thing!"

 

[Dradder]

I mean, what are we trying to do here....change settings at lightning speed so we can shred chords on the downstroke like guitards....or play bass?

Well, actually, I think you're right about this. I hot-rodded my current bass, with the pickup going straight to the output, so the knobs don't do anything at all. The controls placement on this Svelte bass wouldn't be the selling point for me, one way or another.

 

[JACink]

I must say I am not fond of the bass, or at least the prototype.

And regarding the location of the controls being faster to change and then follow through with a downstroke, unless you are using a pick, do you actually do much downstroking on a bass?

I agree with Templar:

Know what? The more I think about it, the more the Svelte looks like a guitarists idea of what a bass should be. (not that there's anything wrong with that)

 

[Iridescentone]

By that reasoning, no improvements to bass design are possible, because if they were possible, they would have been made already.

Not at all. Loads of functional improvements have been incorporated into bass design throughout the decades. There's a difference between "improvements" and alterations that have little or no functional benefit. The useful changes stick around, the others don't last long. The roadside of guitar history is littered with failed ideas, some so obviously goofy as to make one wonder...."why"?

 

[Dradder]

Not at all. Loads of functional improvements have been incorporated into bass design throughout the decades. There's a difference between "improvements" and alterations that have little or no functional benefit. The useful changes stick around, the others don't last long. The roadside of guitar history is littered with failed ideas, some so obviously goofy as to make one wonder...."why"?

Yes, but if that were the case here, there would have already been basses designed with the controls mounted on top. Have there been, and was that design change found unsatisfactory? I'm not aware of any. David Certain is a performing bassist, and if he finds top-mounted controls useful -- I wouldn't -- then possibly someone else playing in that same style might. But the fact that the market isn't "flooded" with basses with top-mounted controls wouldn't mean that the idea has been tried and found wanting; more likely, it just hasn't been tried before.

 

[Dradder]

unless you are using a pick, do you actually do much downstroking on a bass?

I always use a pick; just the way I like it. So yeah, I do a lot of downstrokes. Me and the late Dee Dee Ramone, not that he would've been much interested in fine-tuning the controls on his bass.

 

[Iridescentone]

This strikes me as a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" proposition. If he hadn't mentioned Hendrix, certain types would have been all over him like ticks on a hound, saying, "That isn't an original design! Jimi did the exact same thing!"

Really? On a bass forum?

Just looks like someone's wild Jaguar-esque concept to me. Hendrix would never have entered my mind, apart from the builder having "dropped" his name into the ad copy. I suppose if an iconic bass player was associated with a Jaguar bass, then that name would have been plastered in there instead. lol

 

[Dradder]

Really? On a bass forum?

Yes, but he didn't say it on a bass forum; he said it on his Kickstarter page. Which has also been Facebooked and otherwise promoted, so people besides bass players would be likely to see it and note the similarity to where the controls were on Hendrix's flipped guitar.

 

[Iridescentone]

Yes, but if that were the case here, there would have already been basses designed with the controls mounted on top. Have there been, and was that design change found unsatisfactory? I'm not aware of any. David Certain is a performing bassist, and if he finds top-mounted controls useful -- I wouldn't -- then possibly someone else playing in that same style might. But the fact that the market isn't "flooded" with basses with top-mounted controls wouldn't mean that the idea has been tried and found wanting; more likely, it just hasn't been tried before.

There is.....the Fender Jaguar bass, which has some top controls. It's a bass spinoff of the Fender Jaguar guitar.

Many acoustic-electric guitars/basses have controls mounted at the upper side of the body. That's useful to reference the EQ sliders at a glance. Can't really do that with a solid body instrument, though I'm sure some have tried.

 

[Iridescentone]

Yes, but he didn't say it on a bass forum; he said it on his Kickstarter page. Which has also been Facebooked and otherwise promoted, so people besides bass players would be likely to see it and note the similarity to where the controls were on Hendrix's flipped guitar.

Good point. I suppose if anyone might be interested in actually owning (read; paying their hard earned money for) a Svelte it probably wouldn't be a bassist, anyway. Maybe dropping Jimi's name, along with some "vintage Fender-speak" can help reel in some non-bassist interest.

 

[Dradder]

There is.....the Fender Jaguar bass, which has some top controls. It's a bass spinoff of the Fender Jaguar guitar.

That would answer the question about whether top-mounted controls have been tried before on a bass, but it wouldn't answer whether they were found unsatisfactory. And in fact it would indicate that they weren't found to be so, since the Jaguar bass is still around.

I'm familiar with the Jaguar, but the Svelte bass seems to me to be fundamentally different, in that with the Jaguar, you're still dropping your hand to adjust the volume and tone controls, whereas with the Svelte you'd never be doing that.

 

[Dradder]

Maybe dropping Jimi's name, along with some "vintage Fender-speak" can help reel in some non-bassist interest.

I think when you're running a Kickstarter, you pretty much don't care why somebody gives you the money, as long as you get it.

 

[scourgeofgod]

I think you're both focusing too much on the Jimi Hendrix thing, I didn't know he mentioned Jimi you mentioned it. Jimi's situation is not really the same thing so it was kinda silly to mention him, but I also doubt that the mentioning of Hendrix's top controls will sway anyone into donating or buying. Everyone here is already either a 1 or a 10 on the intrigued/kill-it-with-fire scale.

 

[Dradder]

Upon looking at the Kickstarter pictures some more, I think that if I were to acquire one of these Svelte basses, I'd pay him to wire the pickups straight to the output, leave out the roller controls entirely so the pickguard could be screwed down tight to the body and I wouldn't be likely to jab my hand on the pointy bit, and have the output mounted on the side rather than on the top. And have the body finished in some eye-blinding color, with the pickguard some completely contrasting color. That would be cool. It's an interesting visual concept, but maybe he just didn't take it far enough. Plus maybe I'm just not keen on those roller controls peeking over the edge of the pickguard.

 

[Iridescentone]

That would answer the question about whether top-mounted controls have been tried before on a bass, but it wouldn't answer whether they were found unsatisfactory. And in fact it would indicate that they weren't found to be so, since the Jaguar bass is still around.

I'm familiar with the Jaguar, but the Svelte bass seems to me to be fundamentally different, in that with the Jaguar, you're still dropping your hand to adjust the volume and tone controls, whereas with the Svelte you'd never be doing that.

Let's recap; Having all the controls on top saves players the agony of reaching down a couple inches, then having to drag their hand all the way back up to playing position. Sounds like an answer to a question nobody is asking.

The Jaguar bass has an aesthetic that appeals to some players. I expect that's what Jaguar bass players like most about them, more so than the upper controls. (I like how they look, but don't much care for the upper controls FWIW)

Further, I can easily imagine that if the Jaguar had all of its controls on top, there would be a lot less interested parties.

 

[Dradder]

Sounds like an answer to a question nobody is asking.

Well . . . I could imagine that if you were a jazzy type bassist, and you had some solos in a rapid call-&-response pattern, and you had one of the roller controls mounted to a varitone so you could get a considerably different tone with a click or two of your thumb, then maybe the Svelte's top-mounted controls would be a big deal; you could make yourself sound like two basses answering each other. Would there be a pretty limited number of bassists who would be in the market for that sort of thing? Oh yeah, definitely -- but I'm pretty sure David Certain wouldn't be expecting to move as many of these Sveltes as Fender moves Jaguars.

 

[soupofthedave]

his ambition is awesome and his other basses look really good. but his final product for this one leaves something to be desired IMO.

 

[Millsbass5ive]

This...

"Conventional controls that are below, you go down, adjust something, then you have to bring your hand back up above the strings to catch the down stroke. It's more movement, less efficient."

More efficient? So, instead of moving down to the controls, then back up.....you now move up and over to the controls, then back over and down to playing position. If this was any sort of actual benefit the bass market would have been flooded with controls on top decades ago. Design aesthetic, nothing more.

This....

"I had to make it function and feel like a vintage Fender or Fender styled bass....I started with a Jazz bass body and trimmed it down in order to retain those traditional contact points, points at which the human makes contact with the instrument.... it's just like playing an old Fender Jazz Bass except much better balanced and lighter weight!"

If the contact points are the same on both basses, why will one have "much better balance" than the other? Clearly, neither the 2+2 headstock, nor the headless one, are traditional Jazz bass contact points. Doubtful any one will think the Svelte is going to "function and feel" like a Fender bass, vintage or otherwise.

Beyond that, what Hendrix did with a Strat has nothing to do with how anyone plays bass. Irrelevant name dropping.

My fave features? The sharp-edged body (saves on router bits), and the "lifted" pickguard to make room for the control knobs. Classic stuff.

I think I'd have left the p/guard flush against the body, then I would've sort of inset the control knobs into the body, just protruding so much. And, I would've also radiused the body edges & put the input jack on the side of the body, too.

Also, I checked out his 5-string model on his sight, and the mystery to me is the 5-strings are $1000.00 more than the same 4-string model. Kind of a big jump in price for a high C/low B string, you think? Usually, it's customary for builders to charge between $50.00-$200.00 more for a 5-string model, and that's even for the vast majority of neck-thru builds! So, I wonder why the big price hike?

 

[Joe Nerve]

If he were asking a reasonable price I'd listen to my mom and not say anything unless I had something nice to say. I think $2500 is a bit much for a kick starter deal (that means we're getting a big discount, right?), AND I feel like taking him up on his challenge. He'll give a bass away to anyone who can outplay him, and makes less money? Actually thought about this for a minute. We can both write something along to a beat, and give each other a couple of hours to reproduce what the other wrote and played . Not saying I'd win, don't know how this guy plays and he might play circles around me... but I'd be up for the challenge for a free bass . And while I hate to admit this, on the earning less money thing, I'm not in the greatest space right now. I think I've got him beat on that.

As for the un-nice things to say, I'm not too sure the controls in that spot would serve me well. I move a lot when I play, and me thinks I'd be hitting those knobs on a regular basis, unintentionally.

Ahh.. I wish him well anyhow.