Changed Ibanez SRMS805 strings, same gauge, now getting buzzing

[Steve Storck]

Hello all. I'm a new bass player and I have only been playing for a couple of months now. My bass came with D'Addario EXL170-5SL which are nickel plated strings. I swapped them out a few weeks ago with D'Addario EPS170-5SL which are the same gauge. After re-stringing, I am getting some buzzing up and down the fretboard. The only thing that I changed was the strings, and I haven't adjusted anything. I looked at some resources to see if neck relief and string height were reasonable, and they appear to be. Do any of you have some ideas about what could be causing the buzzing? Thanks in advance.

 

[nFinnyD]

Did you change strings one at a time, or did you remove them all first?

 

[Steve Storck]

Did you change strings one at a time, or did you remove them all first?

I changed them one-by-one, and tuned them each before changing the next string.

 

[nFinnyD]

Apparently the EPS are slightly lower tension than the EXL, which is a little different than I would’ve expected. As generally steel is higher tension than the same gauge nickel. May need to add a bit of relief in this case, in addition to any necessary saddle adjustments.

 

[IBJammin]

Gauge is just thickness. They are different metals, so other aspects will be different. Tension is likely slightly different. I couldn't quickly find D'Addario's tension guide, but Elixir nickels are slightly more tense than their stainless steels. If this holds true across D'Addarios too, then you need to adjust the truss rod.

 

[nFinnyD]

Looking into this further, and considering IBJs info as well, it seems SEVERAL companies have steels that are lower than their nickel counterparts! Definitely not what I would’ve expected, so this is interesting to know.

 

[Steve Storck]

My impression was that, since it was nickel plated steel, the tension should be very close to the stainless strings. But I made some adjustments to the truss rod for more relief, and that is definitely helping. Thanks for the suggestion! I guess it will be good enough until I can get somebody reputable to do a full setup. I have two free setups from Guitar Center, but I have no idea how good the people are who do that work there.

 

[Aidil]

D'Addario website says the EXL170-5SL has a total tension of 221.74 lbs, whilst the EPS170-5SL has a total tension of 216.17 lbs. So, regardless of what appears to be the same gauges, there is still a total tension difference of 5.57 lbs between those two sets, though it's rather small. Logically, you did the correct thing by releasing the truss rod tension.

 

[Steve Storck]

What I don't know is how much to release the truss rod. I have decreased the buzzing, but there is still a bit on the B and E strings. Hardly as bad, now, though!

 

[Aidil]

That is normal. Basically, changing strings would require resetting up your bass, which is more likely to happen when the new string set has different gauges, materials, constructions, and/or brands.

Again, referring to D'Addario website, the XB130SL of XL Nickel is said to have 36.030 lbs of tension, while the PSB130SL of the ProSteels is said to have 35.200 lbs of tension. Also the XB100SL is said to have tension of 38.930 lbs, while the PSB100SL tension is 37.870 lbs. So, the new low-B and E are actually lower tension than the originals.

Despite that you had adjusted the truss rod, those two new strings would still vibrate with more excursions when plucked with more less the same stroke power. String fret buzzes would appear if the string actions were kept as the previous heights. So, the individual string action of those two new strings might still need to be corrected by slightly adding more height on each string saddle.

There is also how much string buzz that can be tolerated, which is personal preference.

There is also string buzz which is more apparently heard because of the string materials. The ProSteels stainless steel wraps have brighter sound than previous nickel plated steels wraps of the XL Nickel, thus any string buzz would be more likely to be heard.

 

[iiipopes]

+1 on all posted above. Tension is determined by mass, not by outside diameter. Many variables contribute to two strings of the same outside diameter having different mass: diameter of core wire, hex or round, diameter and number of wraps of wrap wire, what the metal the core and the wrap are made of, because different alloys have different densities, how tightly the wire is wrapped, and so on. Yes, generally, stainless steel wrap wire is less dense than typical nickel plated steel wrap wire, so the tension is less. Less tension, and a neck straightens out or can even backbow. Time for a truss rod tweak to restore the proper relief for the new lower tension strings.

 

[scottfeldstein]

The cause is lower string tension for sure. More interesting is the remedy. You've already adjusted the truss rod for more relief, which is a good impulse. I think I would reevaluate the entire setup. What is that neck relief, exactly? Is it 12 thou? 10? Sometimes you want to increase the neck straightness and raise the bridge saddles. I would do a complete setup on it.

 

[Greenstreet]

I looked at some resources to see if neck relief and string height were reasonable, and they appear to be. Do any of you have some ideas about what could be causing the buzzing? Thanks in advance.

Neck shim shifted, high spot on one or more frets, action not set correctly at the saddles or the nut (or both), neck relief not set correctly.
There are other things that could cause a buzz, but these are the most common.

Assuming that you measured the relief and action properly and they are both within spec, you've ruled them both out. The first thing I'd check is the fretwork.

I made some adjustments to the truss rod for more relief, and that is definitely helping. Thanks for the suggestion! I guess it will be good enough until I can get somebody reputable to do a full setup. I have two free setups from Guitar Center, but I have no idea how good the people are who do that work there.

D'Addario website says the EXL170-5SL has a total tension of 221.74 lbs, whilst the EPS170-5SL has a total tension of 216.17 lbs. So, regardless of what appears to be the same gauges, there is still a total tension difference of 5.57 lbs between those two sets, though it's rather small. Logically, you did the correct thing by releasing the truss rod tension.

Logically, he did the correct thing by not trusting Guitar Center to do a setup on his instrument. I've seen some pretty barbaric atrocities committed by their "experts".

As far as loosening the truss rod, I disagree. If he checked the relief and it was set correctly according to the instrument's specs, as he said he did, either the truss rod is not the problem, or he measured incorrectly, which means that he probably shouldn't be messing with it until he has a better understanding of what he's doing. Either way, I wouldn't advise messing with the truss rod at this point.

What I don't know is how much to release the truss rod.

No more than 1/4 turn at a time, tuned to pitch, then let it settle overnight before re-tuning and checking again. But don't do it.

I have decreased the buzzing, but there is still a bit on the B and E strings. Hardly as bad, now, though!

You may have covered up one problem, and created another in the process. It could be any number of things, or a combination of things. For starters, if the buzz is on the two outside strings and not on the inner strings, it indicates that the strings are not properly radiused, which is probably at the saddles, which indicates that the saddles are not properly adjusted, buzz or no buzz.

Again, trying to fix a problem at the saddles by loosening the truss rod is not fixing anything, it's only hiding a symptom.

Before you do anything, tune to pitch, put a capo at the first fret, hold the string down at the fret where the neck meets the body, and measure the action at the eighth fret (from the top of the fret to the bottom of the string). it should be between .3mm and .5mm. If it's not close to this range, you'll want to get it back to where it belongs before doing anything else. No more than a quarter turn at a time, re-tune to pitch, and let the instrument sit overnight before re-tuning and checking again.

Scott is right. You should always do a setup when changing strings, and with seasonal changes.

However, it's never a good idea to go wrenching away at the truss rod unless you know what you're doing.

Get the relief set correctly and we can go from there.


.

 

[dkelley]

Also, the buzzing will slowly sort of magically reduce over time too, at least a bit. New strings are much brighter and really show out the little buzzes you didn't hear before.... it'll tame down a bit hopefully.

Do you like what you hear from the different string material, and just from having new strings in general? other than buzzing...

 

[Spin Doctor]

What I don't know is how much to release the truss rod. I have decreased the buzzing, but there is still a bit on the B and E strings. Hardly as bad, now, though!

B strings might buzz even if properly set, because you honestly need to touch them differently than the other strings when you play. You can check the saddle height with this fairly quick method. Hold down the string at the 9th fret and see if it buzzes. If not, adjust the saddle until it just starts to buzz then back it off till it stops buzzing. The reason this works is because in general (on most basses), the fretboard is flat at the 9th fret and higher, so relief has no effect there. Do this for all the strings, check that the strings follow the radius for the fretboard, then check the relief.

To check relief, you can simply hold the strings at the 1st fret and see if they buzz. You can set it so it (or they) just starts to buzz then back it off a bit. Make very small adjustments to the relief. Like 1/16 to 1/8 of a turn at a time. You should never have to make 1/4 turn adjustments to relief unless something is really messed up. I'd hesitate even then. Once you set the saddles and relief this way, it gives you the theoretically lowest action with no buzz. You can tweak it more after that. Like maybe give it another 1/16 of relief. It really depends on whether you like a growly bass. From an engineering standpoint, you want to set the saddles before setting the relief, since that height affects where the relief ends up. If your relief is too high, it will work you to death.

You can learn to do setups yourself with this method. It's just wood and wire and it's always better to know how to adjust your own instrument. There really is no need to measure anything since the object is to make the bass feel good to you. The numbers/measurements are just ballpark figures. It takes a little bit to get the hang of it, but I can set up any bass in about 10 minutes doing this. I've had people, including my teacher, tell me my basses are always easy to play.

 

[GonzoBfiddy]

Hello all. I'm a new bass player and I have only been playing for a couple of months now. My bass came with D'Addario EXL170-5SL which are nickel plated strings. I swapped them out a few weeks ago with D'Addario EPS170-5SL which are the same gauge. After re-stringing, I am getting some buzzing up and down the fretboard. The only thing that I changed was the strings, and I haven't adjusted anything. I looked at some resources to see if neck relief and string height were reasonable, and they appear to be. Do any of you have some ideas about what could be causing the buzzing? Thanks in advance.

ALWAYS do a set-up after changing strings....regardless if they're the same model/brand/guage, etc. There will always be subtle differences with a new set of stings!

 

[micguy]

I have two free setups from Guitar Center, but I have no idea how good the people are who do that work there.

I'd consider two free setups from GC to be worth less than one. I don't view getting a bass from GC as a purchase - more of a rescue. I'm sure there are GC techs that know what they're doing - but the few I've met so far don't.