Changing pickups - actual improvement or hooey?

[tallulahsdaddy]

The only bass I've swapped pickups in is a Peavey B-Ninety. I bought it used, and it had the factory active pickups (P/J) in it. I prefer passive, and considered replacing the originals, but the tone was fine with me. Then the P pickup died on me, so I went ahead and slapped the EMG Geezers in it (came with pots and wiring) These pickups are so dynamic, they respond to every nuance my fingers give 'em! If that P pickup hadn't died on me, I probably wouldn't have ever changed them, but dang am I glad I did!

 

[asparaguspee]

Put a MM pick up in my Yamaha and of course it made a world of difference. But then again it wasn't your straight up ordinary swap.

 

[Rolling Thunder]

I've had outstanding luck with pickup upgrades (all Seymours) and I did plenty of research beforehand...always emailing SD directly.

I think managing expectations is key. For example, playing a strat with a fuzz face and wah will not make you Jimi Hendrix.

 

[KJMO]

The Fender CS 60's jazz pickups are great sounding pickups. If that's what your bass comes with, you're not going to do better, only different (except get rid of single coil hum).

Fender Mustang P/J the pickups are reasonable. The jazz/bridge pickup is garbage, but sounds ok mixed. The P pickup is decent enough. I think most good pickups are an upgrade (Geezers, SD pb-1, etc.).

Most P pickups are just different shades of good. I don't think you can expect huge gains, as in "wow factor". But Geezers with the right strings (sunbeams for me) can't be beat. Just perfect, imho.

The Aguilar P/J pickups I have? I don't think they sound good. I doubt they would improve most basses.

The ceramic pickups in my Squier Affinity Jazz (warmoth neck) actually sounded pretty dang good. Beefy and like a jazz should. I played them live a couple times, and they were a tad muddy. I put a Fralin in the neck spot, and it has way better clarity. Maybe EQ could have done the same, but I would rather not have to futz with it. It does sound "sweeter", but I doubt I could tell live.

The non-superferrite single coils in my Peavey Foundation? I wouldn't switch them if I could. They just plain sound good, although they might be a little too beefy sounding for some styles. And they are the quietest single coils I've ever heard.

If you want to talk about people wasting money, lets talk about bridges ;-)

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

Most peeples don’t know how to adjust pickups.

Sometimes it’s easier to spend money than learn something.

Yeah, like raising your split until your poles grow an 1/8 inch, and lowering the single in your bridge til it splits into two coils wired in series. Some people just can't grasp the true power of a #1 Philips.

In fact, I just adjusted the pickups in my jazz bass. They now look like this

I turned 11 screws.

It's now deeper, hotter, and has a special sort of edgy smoothness to it. #1 Philips. Who would of thought?

 

[packhowitzer]

I can only offer my anecdotal experience. In general, I'm not that interested in changing pickups if I don't have to. BUT - I put DiMarzio Model Js in my CIJ Geddy Lee Jazz and it completely transformed that bass for me. It always sounded good, but had a completely different output level from my very hot P basses or active stingray. It sounded good, but i'd have to re-EQ my amp to compensate for the lower output. With the Model Js, it still sounds totally like a Jazz bass, but now has the beef to stand toe to toe with my other basses.

Secondly, I have a frankenbass that started life as an SX Ursa 3 PJ. The original pickups were fine really - especially for a $99 dollar bass, but I wanted to gussy it up for my son and had a DiMarzio Model P available to put it in as well as a Bill Lawrence J pickup. Replacing the stock pickups with those I just named has breathed new life into that bass. It had other upgrades besides the pickups, but I think the pickups really made a substantial difference.

And for the record, I'm typically in the camp of thinking that new strings can do more than pickups, bridges, tone woods, capacitors or any of the other things we tend to obsess over here at TB. But in those two instances, I really did see a drastic and positive result from new pickups. ymmv.

 

[andare]

playing a strat with a fuzz face and wah will not make you Jimi Hendrix.

Yes but we're discussing tone here, not playing ability

 

[MtManiac]

Sigh… there’s a lot going on in this post. Your questions seem to boil down to “does changing the pickups make a difference in your tone?” Yes, of course.

I've swapped out good pickups, mediocre pickups, and bad pickups for better or worse pickups in all cases. Sometimes I play straight to my amp, sometimes I use a little overdrive, compression, or extra EQ, and yes I can tell the difference between these pickups. Can I pick any of them out in a blind test with a recording? No idea, maybe, maybe not. I can tell the difference solo at home, but the test for me is when I’m playing with a group. If nobody else can tell a difference, it doesn’t matter to me, what matters to me is that I can.

None of my ability to tell the difference is related to confirmation bias. Sometimes the new pickup is deflating. I have enough money that I don’t care about the cost of a pickup, and I have several unused pickup sets on a shelf at home waiting to be used, and others I’ve sold or given away.

At this point, I’m tempted to replace every P pickup I’m using with one particular pickup model because I love it so much, and have used it with great success in multiple basses.

My Epi Tbird vintage pro and my embassy bass will never get a pickup change, as the pickups in them are a major reason why I bought them both.

My Ray5 will likely not get a change, but possible it will. I haven’t owned it long enough to decide, and the stock one seems ok. It’ll be a while before I can play it with a group.

My MIM Standard Jazz will not get a change as the bass will probably not survive in my house much longer - I find myself shopping for a fretless J, and for me, a fretless needs a whole other pickup profile than a fretted bass, so depending on what it is and what it comes with it may get a swap.

I find the question absurd to be honest. Strings and pickups are the two biggest equipment-related factors to tone on a bass - not counting effect-related, amp-related, or room-related factors. If you can’t tell a difference, that’s cool for you, but whatever other people choose to play, well they have their own reasons, and I don’t see how it affects anyone else.

 

[Franchy]

Is the difference in pickups could be described as mostly EQ thing happening? Sometimes people want some kind of pre-backed tone, say, with more low-mid thump, mid growl, hi-mid grit, percussive highs or fat lows, that will work better in given music context or correspond better with "sound in a head". In another case, sterile sound with broad frequency responce (EMG? ) could be more universal and flexible choice.

 

[MtManiac]

Fixed it.

Pickups can change a lot, but I think they can also sometimes change almost nothing. If you buy a decent quality '62 reissue P pickup, it will sound about like the vintage reissue pickup you already have. If you swap it out for a quarter pounder, that sound it still in there, but you'll by default have more low end, resulting in less perceived midrange. If you swap it out for active EMG's, you'll have something very different, but familiar. If the same geometry pickup goes into the same location, it will have a lot in common with the previous pickup.

To me, a P bass with a VMod sounds quite different from a SPB-1, and a CS62 sounds quite different from a SPB-1 in a different way. I wouldn’t dream of replacing any with an active EMG set.

 

[Ricky Rioli]

I find it insane to pick out pickups for a bass you haven’t even played yet

Let's see if I can stop foaming at the mouth long enough to write this:

I bought a Dimarzio Model P pickup and then found a bass to fit it to.

Because the jack had been knocked in transit and needed repairing at the same time as the Dimarzio was fitted, I never had the opportunity to hear the original pickup.

But I now have the sound I wanted. What noise the original pickup would have made is of no interest to me (and will remain a mystery, as someone was very keen to buy it from me)

This is insane?

 

[Gothic]

I read through the original post, shaking my head at all the points brought up and questioned. The questioning (out loud, anyway) of the motives, hearing, and purposes of people that one doesn’t even know has always baffled me

The only response I can come up with is, it’s like Jazz. If you have to ask the question, you ain’t gonna understand the answer.

Let me break this down for you, then, since quite a lot of people seemed to understand it fine.

Have you ever changed pickups (with the same type) and seen an improvement?
And if so, do you think you could replicate that improvement through the tech in your signal chain instead?

^^ Yep ^^ The fact that the question of whether pickups are not merely a 'psycho-somatic' impulse or even a relevant tonal upgrade is even being asked, in 2021...is surprising at best and unfortunate at worst. To the OP, enjoy the journey. Developing your ears in regard to magnet types, coil wire, bobbin shape, pickup design etc is an enjoyable process as a musician.

This isn't a thread about me looking for a new pickup. I'm not. Nor is it about my ears and whatever their level of distinction is.
This is about your experiences with pickup changes.

 

[WI Short Scaler]

My Fender Musicmaster had the crummy old guitar pickup in it when I got it. Changing that out for an SD 1/4 lb 4 pole made a big difference in the toe tone. But since I was too naive to know about string spacing the pickup was too wide and that left muddy tone on the E string. I have since put in a Nordstrand with the correct 17mm spacing and the clarity and tone are great now.

The Squier Musicmaster had the great Vista Tone pickup in it and that's still going strong. No changes on that one in mind.

Sometimes it does help, but not always.

 

[themickster]

I fitted a new pickup to an Aria but only to get rid of hum.

 

[Rolling Thunder]

Yes but we're discussing tone here, not playing ability

Sigh.....

Ok, for clarification, I did not sound like Jimi either.

 

[juggahnaught]

I've seen many, MANY posts about people buying a new bass and wanting to change the pickup before even playing it. And while I will defend everyone's right to do whatever the hell they want with their money, I find it... well, I'll be polite and say, rash.

There are many people also that swear by their pickup change. Example:
"I got a p-bass and putting in the GZR made it a dream"
And I've also seen other people change pickups and get jack. Sure, it may sound different but is it really better*?
(*totally subjective, yes, hence this thread)

Personally, I honestly can't decide whether this is all just us convincing ourselves that we made the right choice or if there's a significant enough difference to really warrant the money spent.

Not saying there isn't a difference, mind you. BUT, with many of us sending the signal through a lot of tone shaping tech before it actually becomes sound, does the pickup really matter that much or does it just become a marginally significant part of the whole equation?

I've always advocated that, on an electric instrument, the pickups/electronics are the major factors that shape the tone (as opposed to body/neck/fretboard woods as well as hardware). So I'm not saying they're nothing.
What I'm asking is, have you seen that big of a difference between different pickups, AFTER going through preamps and EQ's and all that? Would you be able to effectively change something in your sound through the aforementioned (amp, EQ etc.) without changing the pickup?
I mean, how much can you screw up a pickup in a precision, for example?

And by the way, I'm mainly talking about the pickups themselves, presently. Not the circuitry involved. Which is my next point. Perhaps a change in that area (say 500k pots instead of 250k) would be enough?

Discuss.

I think you're correct that there are diminishing returns to pickup changes after a certain point - if you are able to get a full-range sound from your current pickups. I also do think that you are correct about pickups and their effect in a complex signal chain - you can compensate for pickup differences with the rest of the effect chain (as long as you have the means to do so, this is easier with modern effects and modelers).

All that said - I have two basses. One (my SR506) has Bartolini MK1 pickups, and one (my SR750) has Nordstrands. The one with Nords has a much different sound than the one with the Barts - it's brighter, more modern, with upper mid growl and a lot of clarity - and so I have considered putting Nordstrands into the SR506. They both sound different direct, and they do sound different through my Helix presets. But I may try new strings on the SR506 before I go down that path.

I think that at least in my case, new pickups MIGHT make a large difference in the sound of my SR506. This may not apply for all cases.

 

[JimmyM]

I used to think it was hooey till I had a couple drastically improve by better pickups. Now I'm all for it!

 

[Clank Plank]

Fixed it.

Pickups can change a lot, but I think they can also sometimes change almost nothing. If you buy a decent quality '62 reissue P pickup, it will sound about like the vintage reissue pickup you already have. If you swap it out for a quarter pounder, that sound it still in there, but you'll by default have more low end, resulting in less perceived midrange. If you swap it out for active EMG's, you'll have something very different, but familiar. If the same geometry pickup goes into the same location, it will have a lot in common with the previous pickup.

My own experience differs, but hey ho.

Strings can sometimes make a radical difference, but pickups can sometimes make an even bigger one. In a deep twist of irony its often possible to get a nice sounding pickup for less than the cost of a decent set of strings.

But certainly they're the two biggies.

 

[JimmyM]

I've seen many, MANY posts about people buying a new bass and wanting to change the pickup before even playing it. And while I will defend everyone's right to do whatever the hell they want with their money, I find it... well, I'll be polite and say, rash.

There are many people also that swear by their pickup change. Example:
"I got a p-bass and putting in the GZR made it a dream"
And I've also seen other people change pickups and get jack. Sure, it may sound different but is it really better*?
(*totally subjective, yes, hence this thread)

Personally, I honestly can't decide whether this is all just us convincing ourselves that we made the right choice or if there's a significant enough difference to really warrant the money spent.

Not saying there isn't a difference, mind you. BUT, with many of us sending the signal through a lot of tone shaping tech before it actually becomes sound, does the pickup really matter that much or does it just become a marginally significant part of the whole equation?

I've always advocated that, on an electric instrument, the pickups/electronics are the major factors that shape the tone (as opposed to body/neck/fretboard woods as well as hardware). So I'm not saying they're nothing.
What I'm asking is, have you seen that big of a difference between different pickups, AFTER going through preamps and EQ's and all that? Would you be able to effectively change something in your sound through the aforementioned (amp, EQ etc.) without changing the pickup?
I mean, how much can you screw up a pickup in a precision, for example?

And by the way, I'm mainly talking about the pickups themselves, presently. Not the circuitry involved. Which is my next point. Perhaps a change in that area (say 500k pots instead of 250k) would be enough?

Discuss.

I don't know if anyone's brought this up, but here's why I'd rather change a pickup if I'm not getting what I want...

...the AmStd pickup Fender used from 2008-12 is IMHO garbage. When I took it to a gig, it was all lows and highs and no mids. Sure, I could crank up mids in my amp and they did in the PA as well, but when you crank up a frequency range, you also crank up its noise floor. You also don't necessarily crank up the right frequencies. My 76 P with the 62 CS I bought in the early 2000's blew it away by far. So then I bought a 62 Original, thinking it would be the updated model of the 62 CS, which was disco'd at the time. Hah! Better than the stocker, but still had this annoying treble response and mid reduction and sounded nowhere nearly as good as the 62 CS. I bought a Stellartone Tonestyler to try and cope with it, and it did help a good bit, but it still wasn't right because the source material was what it was. About a year later, the Geezer was in pre-production and I got my hands on a couple. BANG ZOOM! Perfection!

I still have that 62 CS pickup but I still replaced it with a Geezer just because I liked the extra little kick in the mid mids that it had, otherwise they sounded very close. Had I been able to get a good pickup from Fender and didn't have a friend who worked with EMG and hooked me up, I'd have left it in the 76. But I am digging it out of mothballs for this fretless P build I'm working on. Good enough and I own it already, and despite having a deal with EMG, I still have to pay for stuff I get...I just pay way less

 

[SteveCS]

I've seen many, MANY posts about people buying a new bass and wanting to change the pickup before even playing it. And while I will defend everyone's right to do whatever the hell they want with their money, I find it... well, I'll be polite and say, rash.

There are many people also that swear by their pickup change. Example:
"I got a p-bass and putting in the GZR made it a dream"
And I've also seen other people change pickups and get jack. Sure, it may sound different but is it really better*?
(*totally subjective, yes, hence this thread)

Personally, I honestly can't decide whether this is all just us convincing ourselves that we made the right choice or if there's a significant enough difference to really warrant the money spent.

Not saying there isn't a difference, mind you. BUT, with many of us sending the signal through a lot of tone shaping tech before it actually becomes sound, does the pickup really matter that much or does it just become a marginally significant part of the whole equation?

I've always advocated that, on an electric instrument, the pickups/electronics are the major factors that shape the tone (as opposed to body/neck/fretboard woods as well as hardware). So I'm not saying they're nothing.
What I'm asking is, have you seen that big of a difference between different pickups, AFTER going through preamps and EQ's and all that? Would you be able to effectively change something in your sound through the aforementioned (amp, EQ etc.) without changing the pickup?
I mean, how much can you screw up a pickup in a precision, for example?

And by the way, I'm mainly talking about the pickups themselves, presently. Not the circuitry involved. Which is my next point. Perhaps a change in that area (say 500k pots instead of 250k) would be enough?

Discuss.

My experience is that it depends on how radical the change is. Most of my pickup 'upgrades' have been quite radical and have made clearly audible differences. In the case of my passive P/J, I replaced the original DiMarzio P with an 'Original Bill Laurence' twin blade, and the original DiMarzio J with a vintage-style Alnico taken from a Tokai 'Jazz Sound' bass. The P was a revelation in clarity and dynamics, but the J made little real difference. In fact is could barely keep up with the OBL in terms of output or tone. Many years later I dropped in a Seymour Duncan QP Jazz and order was restored. In fact I use that far more than the P.

On my StingRay basses I have replaced the Alnico pickups with ceramic, and that made a huge difference. My experience is that ceramic pickups have faster transients than Alnico and tend to have more 'air' at the top, more sensitive and nuanced dynamics and more transparency in the bass. Some see that transparency as a lack of heft or warmth in the bass. I would agree but for me that as a good thing as I don't want the thump or flub to dominate.