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Changing pickups - actual improvement or hooey?

Pickup swaps can be hit or miss, just like switching strings can be.

But the idea that you can “fix” it with your signal chain is misplaced in my opinion. You’re basically saying that you can polish a turd to good effect.

Transduction is always a very important part of an audio signal chain, so pickups and the speaker cabinet you use are the pillars your rig stands on.
 
There's a fault in your reasoning there (bold) concerning my intentions/thoughts on this or perhaps a fault in my initial wording. The change in tonality was never in question. The improvement, on the other hand, was.
I'm gonna ask once more, then. With your history and experience, are you saying that, by changing pickups, you can signifcantly improve your tone in a way that nothing along the signal path, or the altering of other parameters (strings, for example) can?
OK< all good. Well that makes for a varied conversation. To answer the first question, yes of course. Pickups contribute what pickups contribute. In simple terms, you cannot get the tone or response of Alnico from Ceramic, no matter what potentiometers you change. Coil wire thickness, pole piece shape, bobbin height, # of turns etc... cannot be duplicated with strings, effect, amp settings or technique. Period. That said... in today's industry 'mods' in general are on a bass by bass basis. Most mods are 'sideways' movement. Not better, not worse, but different. But the most important reality to understand, is that when you are 'in that subtle world of mods and change' you are only looking for the last 5%. The last 'inch of the mile' as I call it. Most of us can get what we need from stock gear. We can get 95% of the tone we want, particularly with nicer instruments right off the shelf and believe it most players don't care past that. But that last 5% is where many of us live and that is what many of the 'over hyped' mod posts come from. The change is not subtle to the owner, the shift may have been 1%, 2% closer to home, but again that is where alot the conversation lives.
 
BTW if a bass shows up off the shelf (such as my Yamahas or Fenders and have perfect killing tone, I always leave it. I know better. Pickups only contribute what pickups contribution, same can be said about strings, your cable, amplifier, speakers etc...all of it is relevant. All of it. And all of it has a sub world of subtleties and small %. Manufactures have been changing their designs over the years to meet the different mods player were performing to personal instruments, effects, amps etc. Documented for years on forums like this. They wise up. Today's off the shelf market is pretty fantastic.
 
I suppose pickups to a bass is like a mic to a singer and the strings are like vocal cords (chords!). Singers have different mic preferences. .

Yeah, this reflects my sig : "Better pickups for your bass = Better mic for your singer."
 
I just so happen to have been going through some pickup experimentation with my current two main basses (a Precision and a single-coil Telecaster style bass). I play mostly flat wound strings now and like my action low because flats with high action make me work too hard plucking the notes.

I've gone through many Precision and Precision/Jazz basses (pickup wise) over the years, and I also did a lot of pickup swapping with a '75 Reissue Jazz bass I had many years ago.

I started my pickup twiddling with the P/Js, because I was always afraid that the stock Fender J pickup was going to give me 60-cycle hum problems. After doing a lot of reading (this was probably 20 years ago), I decided upon the Bartolini 8s/9J pickup set. I was happy with Bartolinis for a long time. (I'm talking over 20 years.) I still do like them a lot, as they give you a very hot signal that results in just a touch of distortion at full volume that's pretty much perfect for rock and blues music.

The other factor is that I was never happy with the sound I got out of that '75 Reissue Jazz bass. I always got too much metallic sound (fret noise) with the stock pickups. And the sound was a bit thin to me. (It took me many years of experimenting and then playing a Precision to realize that I was trying to get the punchy sound of a Precision out of a Jazz bass pickup arrangement which I found to be pretty much impossible.)

Because of these two issues, I just assumed that the stock Fender pickups were going to be insufficient. I've since modified that stance (at least for Ps), but I guess I bought into the hype for a long time.

One thing I recently discovered was that a much bigger change you can make is to adjust the pickup height, relative to the strings. I've found I like to have mine sticking above the pickguard by about eighth of an inch. with my current low action, this places the strings about 3/8 of an inch above the pickup. Some pickups I installed put the default pickup height lower (some even flush with the pickguard). I find this too low, as the pickup doesn't have enough "oomph".

In my current main bass, I started with a Warmoth body and a Fender MIJ Precision neck. When I first got the Warmoth body, I installed a Bartolini 8S pickup with the height set as described above. As I said, I was very happy with this configuration for many years. Only recently have I started experimenting with new pickups because I found the string to string balance lacking a bit (the E and A are perfect, the D and G sound much lower, especially at higher volumes). I don't know if this is more a factor of the amp I'm using, the relative pickup heights across the strings, the neck itself, etc. Since pickup replacement is a relatively inexpensive experiment (I mean even really nice pickups are $150-200, compared to many basses costing $1500 and up on the used market (and I'm talking only about stock production basses like Fenders and Gibsons, etc., let alone more expensive basses like Nash, Lull, MusicMan, Lakland, etc.), I figure why not experiment a bit. With even cheaper good cables going for $40 and up, what's a pickup compared to a few good cables?

The current pickup is a Lollar 10% overwound. I installed just the rubber adhesive spacer provided and then the pickup, and it was flush with the pickguard. (Who knows if the pickup cavity in the Warmoth body is deeper than that in the stock Fender Precision body.) The pickup sounded beautiful, perfectly clean, with nice tight lows, and no apparent distortion at full volume. However, it did not have enough gain (compared to what I got with the Barts). The height thing bugged me though, because I always put the Barts a eight inch above the pickguard, so I took some of the foam from the Bart installation and stuck it back in there to get the Lollars to the same height. Bingo. Plenty of gain, and still no distortion. I suspect that's how I'm going to leave the pickup arrangement on this bass for the foreseeable future. It sounds really nice to me and I can't imagine why I would change it anymore. But I am a tinkerer by nature (or so I've discovered), so who knows?

One other experiment I performed on this particular bass was to try a Fender 60's Reissue Precision pickup. I was curious to check out the "vintage" Fender P sound. I found it sounded a lot like the Lollar, but with a bit less gain and a little bit less "sparkle" if that makes any sense. I thought for the $65 I paid for it (however, I think their price has gone up a fair bit since just a few years ago), that it was a very nice sounding pickup. I found that I really liked the clarity, compared to the Bartolinis.

This is already too long a read, so I'm going to stop here.

One thing I'll say is that we're talking about really subtle differences in sound between the stock Fender Precision pickup and the Bartolini and the Lollar. I think a long-time bassist might notice the difference while sitting onstage, but almost anyone else probably won't be able to tell any difference unless you maybe pointed it out to them. And I suspect no one can tell the difference out in the audience, because it's buried under the rest of the band and the PA and all the other factors. So, keep in mind that you're kind of doing this just for yourself. I'm not saying that's a bad thing. You're the person who has to be happy with your tone. But we're talking minuscule differences that are going to be lost on almost everyone else.
 
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I think that if the bass is not fundamentally a good instrument to begin with, then changing pickups will only accentuate the bad parts of the instrument’s sound.

Baking in an EQ curve is a nice “bass”line (pun intended) to shape your tone so that you have a degree of control over what your bass sounds like regardless of where you are plugging in.
 
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And by the way, I don't mean to disparage the Bartolini pickups. The differences in sound and clarity with the Lollar are really subtle. And to be honest, if I was going for a good rock sound in a passive bass, I suspect I'd prefer the Bartolini over the Lollar. I love the Bartolini punch and that teeny bit of distortion sounds great in a loud band.
 
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My favorite sounding P-bass is a Charvel Explorer. I tried putting that pickup (the exact pickup, not just the same model) in another bass and it shared basically no similar tonal qualities.

I also tried like 5 or 6 different P pickups in the Charvel to see what could get closest to the original pickup, and found that the overall character of the bass didn't really change with any of them. Swapping pickups was like a mild EQ shift. Some had more mid, some were brighter, some were darker, etc.

That experiment changed my whole perception on pickup swaps. I recorded clips of everything so I could A/B and not just rely on my memory.

I agree with those who have said strings make the biggest impact on tone (as far as the things we can easily change on our basses). On my ric I tried going from old DRs to brand new ones, and the tone didn't really change all that much. Going to rotos was a night and day difference though.
 
My opinion, FWIW :rolleyes:, is that with modern equip (pups, amps, etc) I can get pretty much any tone I need - with a ‘stock’ instrument… but I do notice a difference with pup changes… one can decide for themselves if they’re classified as upgrades - or not :thumbsup:

My current stable of basses are all FrankenFender/Squiers & I’ve found that 10% o/w Fralins have a particular clarity & punch I like. I put an SD QP in my first FrankenFender, almost 10yrs ago, and haven’t found a need to change it.

So - I change pups because it’s one of my hobbies ;) I have gone (back to) Roto rounds on my black bass & moved PW’s onto my 3TSB!

CB688D97-E518-468C-AF05-B759213568B1.jpeg
 
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. . . . can't decide whether this is all just us convincing ourselves that we made the right choice or if there's a significant enough difference to really warrant the money spent.

If someone is modding or swapping out parts on a brand new bass then they bought the wrong bass.

Other than that, I guess it depends.

I modded a bass once. My old Precision, it had always been a bit lack lustre and weak sounding so I dropped a set of Barts in and wow, an immediate improvement, going from wishy-washy to impressive in one move. Enthused by this success I had a J pickup and pre-amp installed. If the P pickup was a 90% improvement the J and pre-amp was only 10%, ie a waste of money!! I'm done with modding. If the bass doesn't sound like I want I'll sell it an buy one that does.
 
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If it had only to do with tone, even cheap pickups could get the job done. But there are other factors. Noise is a big one. Cheaper pickups can often be noisy especially when using effects and distortion. Bartolini and EMG are very well shielded compared to a cheaper pickup. Humcancelling is also nice in a J pickup and for quiet. Overall the better wire and magnets of a quality pickup lead to better tone. As far as DiMarzio vs Nordstrand vs Bartolini, etc. They are all great. Just different.
 
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Huge difference in many cases. There are so many different pickup designs, implemented in so many different ways, that there is a veritable universe to choose from. I have done swaps where the difference was minimal (Yamaha P to Duncan SPB-2), but many more swaps where the difference was huge (Nordstrand Big Splits to Lace BassBars, Duncan SSB to Q-Tuner).

It's real.
 
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