Changing pickups - actual improvement or hooey?

[kodiakblair]

The non-ferrite single coils in my Peavey Foundation?

The single coils hiding under VFL shells are ferrite. Ceramic/Ferrite two terms for the same thing.

@Gothic

There's an easy test whether pickup swaps are hooey.

Remove logo from new pickup.

Install new pickup.

Count the years before someone asks when you changed the strings

 

[ScotRFM]

I buy based on sound, tone, look, the whole thing. I won't buy something to just mess with it. I swapped pickups in one bass and it was not a great move. Having said that, I did buy one to literally tear it down and rebuild it (it was a cheap one) with custom paint and such, which turned out well. Overall, I'm the same when I see folks buying brand new and immediately playing swaptronics...just wonder why, but know it's totally subjective

 

[BasEd]

I suppose pickups to a bass is like a mic to a singer and the strings are like vocal cords (chords!). Singers have different mic preferences. I’ve swapped P bass pickups (Alnico) for Geezers (passive) and didn’t notice much difference. The main reason is that Geezers are completely hum free. Swapping from round to flat strings made a lot more difference. I would say that swapping passive for active pickups does make a difference as the actives have a greater frequency range. The number of winds makes a difference too. Overwound is very middy. Underwound is more scooped with more bass and highs.

 

[JimmyM]

I buy based on sound, tone, look, the whole thing. I won't buy something to just mess with it. I swapped pickups in one bass and it was not a great move. Having said that, I did buy one to literally tear it down and rebuild it (it was a cheap one) with custom paint and such, which turned out well. Overall, I'm the same when I see folks buying brand new and immediately playing swaptronics...just wonder why, but know it's totally subjective

I've never done it myself, but in some cases I get it. If I bought a bass that I was familiar with the pickups and knew I'd hate them, I'd do it, especially if I were trying to have a couple basses that sound the same.

 

[scott sinner]

Ive done more pickup changes on guitars than basses, but they can make a dramatic difference.

My changes have usually been aimed at dramatic difference though. E.g. like the Start style bits but not the sound, replaced with three mini humbuckers.

Replacing something with an ‘upgraded’ version of the same type, I have usually been doubtful that would be worth it.

However I did recently change some stock MIM Fender Jazz Bass singles for some Lace Aluminum jazz bass pickups. And there I was really just wanting noiseless. But the sound was still notably different. Not dramatic I suppose, but the Lace seem to pickup a bit more across the whole string somehow, imparting more reflective sound of the wood. The stock were more sounding just the immediate string area.
Still, not a dramatic change. Still sounds like a jazz bass. Not sure those nuances would really come thru in most mixes anyway, but again I did just want nosieless.

 

[bench]

Doesnt the cheese in a quarter pounder negatively affect the tone?

Depends on the ohms....

 

[MAJOR METAL]

New pickups will only accentuate what's lacking sonically in the instrument.

 

[mongo2]

I like several pickups but my favorite is the old Danelectro lipstick pickup as in my '60s Convertible guitar and Silvertone Model 1444 "dolphin nose" bass. The more modern versions I've tried have too much midrange for me.

 

[MJ_Sotti]

I have Duncan Antiquity II's on my '74 AVRI Jazz. Like alot.

Also have Geezers on my Precision. Those are really great.

But someone said earlier strings have a huge effect, I agree...I use the DR's I keep forgetting if they're the Hi Beams or the other name. Anyway they're the round core strings. Roundwounds.

 

[mongo2]

I have Duncan Antiquity II's on my '74 AVRI Jazz. Like alot.

I was just about to edit my post above to say that my second favorite pickup to the Danos is the Duncan Antiquity II Precision pickup.

 

[bassliner50]

No question. Replacement of a pickup in my Precision basses does very noticeably change the tone, the EQ and the way the bass responds to my fingers even sustain. Now if you want to discuss the changes a fully functioning bridge with an upgrade bridge (usually heavier and always more expensive) that is a valid debate. Once set up identical to original, I detect no change from a bridge. Change the pickup? Yes oh yes. My favorites P pups are fender Original '62 and Seymour Duncan SPB-1.

 

[Smooth_bass88]

I think that swapping the pickups out changes the sound.

 

[Hundred proof]

When I get around to I’ll swap out my stock Pbass pickup for a quarter pounder and change the strings from flats to Dunlop super brights, a combination I’ve had success with before.

 

[fhm555]

…Especially in inexpensive basses, it's advisable to also replace the pots and output jack if you bother to upgrade the pups. In my experience, the cheaper the bass, the cheesier the electronics. Scrimping on pups and pots is about the first thing they do to keep the price down.

while I found this to be true in a lot of budget basses, it is not so in MIM Fenders. It may have been in the past, but I got my first MIM J in the mid 90’s and it had the same pots and jack as the MIA Fender J basses i was looking at back then. Since then I had a lot if MIM J basses and every one of them came with CTS 1/4” solid shaft 250k pots and whatever jack Fender uses in their MIA basses.

 

[InhumanResource]

I've seen many, MANY posts about people buying a new bass and wanting to change the pickup before even playing it. And while I will defend everyone's right to do whatever the hell they want with their money, I find it... well, I'll be polite and say, rash.

There are many people also that swear by their pickup change. Example:
"I got a p-bass and putting in the GZR made it a dream"
And I've also seen other people change pickups and get jack. Sure, it may sound different but is it really better*?
(*totally subjective, yes, hence this thread)

Personally, I honestly can't decide whether this is all just us convincing ourselves that we made the right choice or if there's a significant enough difference to really warrant the money spent.

Not saying there isn't a difference, mind you. BUT, with many of us sending the signal through a lot of tone shaping tech before it actually becomes sound, does the pickup really matter that much or does it just become a marginally significant part of the whole equation?

I've always advocated that, on an electric instrument, the pickups/electronics are the major factors that shape the tone (as opposed to body/neck/fretboard woods as well as hardware). So I'm not saying they're nothing.
What I'm asking is, have you seen that big of a difference between different pickups, AFTER going through preamps and EQ's and all that? Would you be able to effectively change something in your sound through the aforementioned (amp, EQ etc.) without changing the pickup?
I mean, how much can you screw up a pickup in a precision, for example?

And by the way, I'm mainly talking about the pickups themselves, presently. Not the circuitry involved. Which is my next point. Perhaps a change in that area (say 500k pots instead of 250k) would be enough?

Discuss.

Changing pickups is kind of crazy before you heard the instrument and understand what you want to get that it does not already provide, but I disagree that pickups don’t change anything (if that is the premise here).

At one point I was changing pickups kind of frequently and it probably wasn’t necessary. However it did give me experience enough to know which models do what and what I do and don’t like. Nowadays I just want things to be plug and play so unless the bass is a designated project I’m unlikely to screw around with it.

 

[KJMO]

The single coils hiding under VFL shells are ferrite. Ceramic/Ferrite two terms for the same thing.

@Gothic

There's an easy test whether pickup swaps are hooey.

Remove logo from new pickup.

Install new pickup.

Count the years before someone asks when you changed the strings

SUPER-ferrite. I don't know why it double posted, and I edited one of the posts to say super ferrite.

 

[Bonafide]

This isn't a thread about me looking for a new pickup. I'm not. Nor is it about my ears and whatever their level of distinction is.
This is about your experiences with pickup changes.

Yes, understood. That part was very clear. And, my response was exactly that, my experience with pickups. The fact you missed the point, makes the point. It's not a slight on your ears, but it is an indication of your experience level with pickups and their true tonal characteristic and contribution to tone. The fact you questioned whether a transducer and various magnetic field patterns will alter tone is the irony I was speaking to. I find it to quote myself, 'surprising at best, unfortunate at worst' (but not insulting) in 2021, even after the years of empirical data and the brilliant engineering in the industry (many on this board) that pickup tonality changes being primarily psycho-somatic was in question.

Speaking for myself, I have been in the tone industry, pickup industry and gear industry for almost 30 years as a player and tech. I have been commissioned by many pickup companies for solutions, beta testing, consulting, demos etc. I have developed some unique things for the gear industry and have expert level experience with pickups and instrument wiring. I am responding to your post with that history. What I was saying in my initial response, is the journey through pickup subtleties are not subtle in the least. The more experience you have with them, the more your ears will refine to the truth of them. It is inevitable... and that is a fun and super cool journey for a musician or any tone hound. It was a well wishing reply. Still is man.

 

[lfmn16]

I've seen many, MANY posts about people buying a new bass and wanting to change the pickup before even playing it. And while I will defend everyone's right to do whatever the hell they want with their money, I find it... well, I'll be polite and say, rash.

+1

I've seen many posts where someone order a bass, pickups, bridge and tuners at the same time. How do you know you need all that if you've never played the instrument? They are listening with their eyes, and @Gorn is 100% right. All mods are not upgrades.

 

[Gothic]

Yes, understood. That part was very clear. And, my response was exactly that, my experience with pickups. The fact you missed the point, makes the point. It's not a slight on your ears, but it is an indication of your experience level with pickups and their true tonal characteristic and contribution to tone. The fact you questioned whether a transducer and various magnetic field patterns will alter tone is the irony I was speaking to. I find it to quote myself, 'surprising at best, unfortunate at worst' (but not insulting) in 2021, even after the years of empirical data and the brilliant engineering in the industry (many on this board) that pickup tonality changes being primarily psycho-somatic was in question.

Speaking for myself, I have been in the tone industry, pickup industry and gear industry for almost 30 years as a player and tech. I have been commissioned by many pickup companies for solutions, beta testing, consulting, demos etc. I have developed some unique things for the gear industry and have expert level experience with pickups and instrument wiring. I am responding to your post with that history. What I was saying in my initial response, is the journey through pickup subtleties are not subtle in the least. The more experience you have with them, the more your ears will refine to the truth of them. It is inevitable... and that is a fun and super cool journey for a musician or any tone hound. It was a well wishing reply. Still is man.

There's a fault in your reasoning there (bold) concerning my intentions/thoughts on this or perhaps a fault in my initial wording. The change in tonality was never in question. The improvement, on the other hand, was.
I'm gonna ask once more, then. With your history and experience, are you saying that, by changing pickups, you can signifcantly improve your tone in a way that nothing along the signal path, or the altering of other parameters (strings, for example) can?

 

[rashrader]

Hmmmm…. Uh. Moving from single coils to hum canceling Jazz Bass pickups is a move that goes beyond the question of “tone hunting”…. It’s a move away from 60 Cycle Hum. I love Jazz Basses. I hate Hum. I know before I even touch a bass, if it has Single Coils, they WILL get replaced.