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Channel Strip?
- Thread starter TakePride
- Start date
- Feb 16, 2008
- 21,240
- 23,636
- Disclosures
- John K Custom Basses
i have quite a few bass preamps and they are pretty good.
i also have an Art Pro channel channel strip as well as a Presonus Eureka, with an Avalon VT-737SP on its way to me (just bought one online yesterday).
the Art Pro Channel is a tube preamp with alot of features and flexibility (compression & parametric eq) and IMO, sounds great for the money. (i paid $249 for it brand new including shipping)
the Eureka works very well, but i don't think its as good as my other 'bass-specific' preamps.
both of my Sansamp PSA's also sound great as a bass preamp (& great for guitar too)
of course, i expect the Avalon to be pretty good (fingers crossed), but it was expensive.
i've also played bass thru my old Neve 1060 modules and it sounds huge thru them.
another channel strip that i've considered is the API 7600, which i think would be awesome, since i always loved playing bass thru an old API board with 512 mic pres / 550A eq with their 525 compressor.
i also have an Art Pro channel channel strip as well as a Presonus Eureka, with an Avalon VT-737SP on its way to me (just bought one online yesterday).
the Art Pro Channel is a tube preamp with alot of features and flexibility (compression & parametric eq) and IMO, sounds great for the money. (i paid $249 for it brand new including shipping)
the Eureka works very well, but i don't think its as good as my other 'bass-specific' preamps.
both of my Sansamp PSA's also sound great as a bass preamp (& great for guitar too)
of course, i expect the Avalon to be pretty good (fingers crossed), but it was expensive.
i've also played bass thru my old Neve 1060 modules and it sounds huge thru them.
another channel strip that i've considered is the API 7600, which i think would be awesome, since i always loved playing bass thru an old API board with 512 mic pres / 550A eq with their 525 compressor.
the DI in the avalon gave me good results with bass, but not the comp, in fact I tried to like the unit especially for its looks but never sounded enough for what it costs.
but the best way is to try it and see for yourself, there are a lot of people who loves it and hates it. IMO it simply not delivers the sound I was expecting for the price. The avalon U5 and the solid state series on the other hand are awsome
What I found when using a unit like the 737 (TLAudio in my case) is since they were not built for bass use is to just run a touch of compression.
The compressors are so adjustable you can get totally "lost" in their adjustablity and it's very easy to overcontrol and make things sound choppy. You need to know exactly what each knob controls and use sparingly.
With a bass preamp that has a one knob compressor with fixed attack etc, its hard to get lost.
JOhn, please let me know what you think about the 737. FOr the most part there has been bad press her on TB except for a few users. I have seriously considered one for some time.
BOB
true, the best way when a 737 sounded when using lil to non compression (belive me I know what does every knob and function of a comp and what kind of comp the 737 has on it)
I´ve tried it (in the studio) with bass, ac. guitarrs, vocals and specially more vocals, though it sounded good (don´t take me wrong) I was expecting more from a unit that cost nearly 2000 , if it would have cost 1000 maybe I´d buy it.
they way it sounds depends on so many factors and the first most important is what do we like, so maybe for you it´s the holy grail, but not my case, though the looks are killer
bongomania
Commercial User
I've had mixed results with channel strips. Here are some reasons why some of them are not so great as bass rig preamps:
--The EQ (non-parametric) may not be centered on frequencies that are useful/good-sounding for bass.
--They usually have just one output, so you have to use an external DI box or splitter box if you want to send your signal to both the PA and a power amp at the same time.
--Their low-cut ("rumble") filter is usually at 80 or 120 Hz, where a low-cut for bass is better at 30-50 Hz.
--They often have features that most bassists will not use, such as phantom power, polarity reversal, de-essing, or expansion.
--The tone is often too "characterless", having a dry or sterile quality.
Of course these complaints don't apply to all channel strips, there are plenty of exceptions. But these issues are pretty common, so bear them in mind when considering any given channel strip.
I recommend the Joemeek 6Q and VC6Q for bass.
--The EQ (non-parametric) may not be centered on frequencies that are useful/good-sounding for bass.
--They usually have just one output, so you have to use an external DI box or splitter box if you want to send your signal to both the PA and a power amp at the same time.
--Their low-cut ("rumble") filter is usually at 80 or 120 Hz, where a low-cut for bass is better at 30-50 Hz.
--They often have features that most bassists will not use, such as phantom power, polarity reversal, de-essing, or expansion.
--The tone is often too "characterless", having a dry or sterile quality.
Of course these complaints don't apply to all channel strips, there are plenty of exceptions. But these issues are pretty common, so bear them in mind when considering any given channel strip.
I recommend the Joemeek 6Q and VC6Q for bass.
- Feb 16, 2008
- 21,240
- 23,636
- Disclosures
- John K Custom Basses
i just thought that i'd try one since it appears to contain all the tools that i'd like to have in one unit. and i'll be sure to let you know what i think of it once it arrives.
so far, i think its its going to be pretty hard to beat the sound (tone, punch, depth, clarity and response & all with very low noise) that i'm getting out of my Demeter HPB-1J, EL-8 combination that i used again on the gig last saturday. with the EL-8, you can compress the hell out of your bass and it still is fat and punchy.
I agree with the above but want to clarify that my experiences have been with plugging a bass into an actual console and not a spearate channel strip; would think that the differences are not having a built in DI on older consoles.
Here is my opinions based on years of recording with older consoles:
Neve - Believe this board from the 70's had the 1081 series of strips with discrete electronics - very warm and fat, not at all fast, and not super transparent but clear; loved it on bass, piano, vocals, strings, etc but could never get a proper modern (90's and up) drum sound
API - 70's vintage consoles, also warm, full, and perhaps spoke slightly faster than the old Neve's; did not have tons of experience as I was a guest engineer at this studio
MCI - Very fast, clear, and transparent, not particularly warm on it's own but the Plutec tube EQ's fixed that, drums would jump out of the monitors; if you couldn't get a modern sound out of this console you were doing something very wrong
Sony - Very similar to MCI, pehaps a bit warmer
Bass guitar, through any simple mic pre into Pultec tube EQ; crazy warm and full; very musical
New Presonus tube channel strip with parametric EQ and very adjustable compression - very dbx like
Tube? what tube; EQ was OK but just didn't sound killer; what do you expect for $300?
SSL - Engineered one session and played bass on 1 session on modern SSL boards; this thing could do no wrong in my book
Other than the SSL, I often equate discrete electronics and trasnformers to warm, smooth, and slow, and, 80's - 90's chip designs to fast, super clear, and not naturaly warm and thick
Most of this was done with passive Fender style basses and the ocassional MM; usually used Countryman DI although did experiment with a passive Jensen transormer box
Ironicaly, one of my favorite sounds was an older V4B with a big load resistor on the output and, the preamp-out going straight to tape; not as adjustable as a strip but for the right session, this rig ruled
Edit - Forgot Trident - played on 1 session at this studio and loved the bass tone (used a Steinberger at the time) music didn't call for super warm bass but it was very clean, clear, and full; engineer (an old friend) did not use much EQ although we did hit the tape pretty hard and the machine was an ancient Otari; had to, the band was broke and we were running 15 ips no N/R! (for you kids, this was back when a roll of 2" tape was $165 and if you ran at 30 ips you only got 15 minutes recording time)
- Feb 16, 2008
- 21,240
- 23,636
- Disclosures
- John K Custom Basses
having owned a Neve designed Amek M3000 for 20 years (they only made three or four of them), i have to say that that board's channel strips when used with a Urie 1176, an EL-8 or my UA 175, gave me everything and more than i could ever want (fast, smooth, punchy, clear, warm etc.) my previous board, a Trident Series 70 was good but not great. The old API boards w/550A eq that i used were also wonderful.
I used to use a Presonus Eureka for a bass pre when I was just running direct or recording. It did a good job, compressor did it's thing and the eq is extremely flexible. Much better than their cheaper one with the tube that does nothing.
- Feb 16, 2008
- 21,240
- 23,636
- Disclosures
- John K Custom Basses
that's good to know, since i have a Eureka, and while its pretty darn good (and flexible), it just doesn't quite have the clarity of my Demeter HBP-1J, or even my Yamaha PB1 or my Ashly BP-41E, and you'd think that it would since its actually a microphone channel strip.
How about we use something like an Ampeg or Yamaha PB-1 as a reference point for discussion?
I like the tone controls of the PB-1 and think it speaks clearly and quickly; has good bass but don't remember it to be super warm sounding. IMO the Yamaha is not as
3-D as the Ampeg CL preamp. Not saying the Ampeg is particularly clear but just that it does have some kind of mojo and deaper soundstage that I like with either a Berg or TL606 cabinet. Have not tried either in the studio as of yet.
Anybody have experience with these two along with comments?
I like the tone controls of the PB-1 and think it speaks clearly and quickly; has good bass but don't remember it to be super warm sounding. IMO the Yamaha is not as
3-D as the Ampeg CL preamp. Not saying the Ampeg is particularly clear but just that it does have some kind of mojo and deaper soundstage that I like with either a Berg or TL606 cabinet. Have not tried either in the studio as of yet.
Anybody have experience with these two along with comments?
- Feb 16, 2008
- 21,240
- 23,636
- Disclosures
- John K Custom Basses
later this week, i'm thinking of posting some clips of all the preamp/channel strips that i have. probably the best way for me to do it is to run them as close to flat as possible (as per manufacturer's recommendations) and record them directly into the line in of my Zoom H4 using a Fender Jazz bass (playing the same riff thru all of them of course).
the preamps/channel strips that i'll be testing/recording are:
1-Demeter HPB-1J
2-Ashly BP-41E
3-Ampeg SVP CL
4-Ampeg SVP Pro
5-Yamaha PB-1
6-Sansamp PSA 1
7-Sansamp PSA-early NO preset version (probably redundant but i'll try it anyway)
8-Presonus Eureka
9- Avalon VT-737SP
10- Sansamp RPM
11- Art Pro Channel (tube)
the preamps/channel strips that i'll be testing/recording are:
1-Demeter HPB-1J
2-Ashly BP-41E
3-Ampeg SVP CL
4-Ampeg SVP Pro
5-Yamaha PB-1
6-Sansamp PSA 1
7-Sansamp PSA-early NO preset version (probably redundant but i'll try it anyway)
8-Presonus Eureka
9- Avalon VT-737SP
10- Sansamp RPM
11- Art Pro Channel (tube)
Thanks John; that would be great.
Perhaps playing along to a drum machine just to have some semblance of how the bass sits in a partial mix; if too much trouble the pre's alone would be much appreciated.
How would you compare the SVP-CL to the PB-1?
Perhaps playing along to a drum machine just to have some semblance of how the bass sits in a partial mix; if too much trouble the pre's alone would be much appreciated.
How would you compare the SVP-CL to the PB-1?
The EHX Bass Metaphors is called a channel strip. I like it but I have nothing to compare it to.
- Feb 16, 2008
- 21,240
- 23,636
- Disclosures
- John K Custom Basses
i was thinking about using a drum machine with just a simple beat to play it with (just need to find the power supply for my DR-16).
the CL is on its way to me so I can't really compare it to the PB1 yet, but i gotta say, i think that the PB1 is really nice.
I have one of these for recording... works great. Has a lot of control including compression. Never thought of using it as a 'LIVE' pre though. I'll have to check it out.
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