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Cheap Ruler accuracy

As far as trusting a measuring device, something off a printer would be at the bottom of my list. Even if printer scaling doesn’t decide to make adjustments on its own, there can be variation in the drive and paper.

Even our commercial 36” wide plotter at work isn’t always accurate. The paper width is good, but the length can be a little off based on the feed mechanism. I think it’s usually like 1/8” over 18” or something like that. For most things it’s fine, since they’re just beating and welding steel in the shop. But for anything more precise we have to print one, measure it, then scale it in that direction in Autocad to compensate.
As long as the error is a consistent percentage of the whole length, this is unlikely to be a problem for instrument building. If the print feed is inconsistent, that's a different matter.

Then again, if the plotter is 36" inches wide and the width scale is accurate, you wouldn't actually have a problem! :D
 
Do you have a good metal tape measure to compare them with? Just start at the 1 inch mark, don’t trust the end hook.
A metal tape measure is probably the worst tool for comparison because of its flexibility. A half a millimeter difference over 12 inches is not much and probably within acceptable tolerances for general DIY-type household and woodworking measurements, but I don't know if that tolerance is good enough for proper fret spacing vis-a-vis accurate intonation.

My project right now is making a pickguard template and my measurements are to one-half millimeter. I don't know if the ruler is 100% accurate to scale and I don't really care because 1) it's plastic and therefore doesn't expand and contract much with temperature and 2) I use the same ruler for all my measurements, therefore any relativity due to tolerances is zero.
 
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You guys aren't going to like my answer.....

A long time ago, I did my own experiments to answer this question: to find out how accurately frets really need to be positioned, to get accurate intonation of every note on an electric bass. The answer I came up with is +/-0.005". I found, by my own experiments, that if you move a fret 0.005", that's enough to see the difference in the frequency reading on a good strobe tuner. 0.005" is 0.127 mm, a little more than a tenth of a millimeter. You can do the experiments yourself, if you don't believe me.

To build a bass that plays all the notes on their correct frequencies, that's the level of accuracy that you need in the positioning of the frets. You need to calculate your chart of numbers to thousandth of an inch (0.001") or tenths of a millimeter (0.1 mm), and then use measuring tools that are accurate to =/- 0.005" or +/- 0.1 mm.

It's not easy to hand-measure to that accuracy over that distance. If you get a good quality machinist's rule, 24" long, the finest graduations you can get are Hundredths of an inch, 0.01". With a magnifier and a fine scribe, you can guess at positions between two of those lines. Metric machinist's rules go as fine as half a mm, 0.5 mm. You have to guess between those lines.

With a good machinist's rule, and using good practice, you can get acceptable accuracy. But machinist's rules aren't cheap. A good quality 24" rule starts at about $60. A really nice Starrett is $388.

If you use one of the Stew-Mac or other slotting saw jigs with the notched scale rules to slot your fingerboards, they are actually pretty accurate. The notches in the scales are located to about +/- 0.002" accuracy. If the fit on your pin is good and the blade guides are set up snug, you'll be within +/- 0.005" overall.

When I make up notched or scribed scale rules for fret slotting machines, I machine them to an accuracy of +/- 0.002". My own fret slotting saw, with some good technique, will get +/- 0.002".

Out in industry, most instrument manufacturers are surprisingly accurate in fret slot positioning. In the last few decades, anyway. Not so much in the '60's. Fender uses gang saws, which are stacks of saw blades with machined spacers between them. If you measured a modern Fender, it will probably be in the 0.002" range. Most manufacturers, even the imports, use hard tooling like that to cut the fret slots.

Yeah, yeah, I know, I know...Some of you are yelling "Aw, come on, is that kind of accuracy reeeealy necessary on a bass???" In my opinion, yes it is. If the bass is being taken into a studio for recording, poor quality intonation can be measured and recorded and heard. That'll get you some crooked eyebrows from the Engineer and Producer. They may not say anything, but they'll notice.

Accurate fret position is an important part of building a high quality bass. This is one place where you shouldn't say "it's good enough..."
 
HF not known for accurate or quality tools........just low priced (cheap) tools made in China , you pray the metal is not made of pot metal and your ruler while it is a ruler , just not accurate .Go to Home Depot and buy a real ruler .
 
Hey I have a cheap harbor freight metal 40 inch ruler that I got for 5 dollars that have mm markings on it and I was wondering if it would be accurate enough for marking out frets.
It looked a little suspicious when comparing it to another 12 inch metal ruler that I have so I don’t know.


Provided you use the same ruler for everything, including positioning the bridge with respect to the nut, it really won't matter - it is the ratio that is important, not the absolute distance. That said, it would be worth checking that it is consistent along the entire length. If the marked units ('mm' or otherwise) are not the same as each other over the entire length then you will end up in hot water.
 
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Knife and scribe marks also can help a saw or chisel register into the exact position. A pencil can't.


BTW... If you're not up for Starrett level stuff, these folks Machinist's Tools sell PEC tools at excellent prices.

I've heard from a reliable source that PEC manufactures many similar looking measuring and marking tools for Lee Valley's Veritas brand. I've got a few of the PEC items and they're quite good.

You can also get those PEC rulers from Taylor Toolworks. They sell blemished factory seconds (usually a 2mm polish mark on the body of the ruler) for about 40% off. I've got a few and they are top notch tools.

No matter what you use for this project, I recommend a good square and ruler in every shop... along with a nice marking knife. Makes like much more bearable for future projects.
 
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I went through looking for a proper affordable ruler in another thread. I ended up getting this one (see link) as it was recommended to me and it goes down to 64ths. I don't see what the defects are in the one I received. I've used it to make a fretboard that plays in tune. It is very tedious to do by hand and get accurate, but it can be done if you are very careful.
Blem Cosmetic Second PEC 36" Rigid 5R (1/10,1/100,1/32,1/64) machinist ruler | eBay
 
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If you are curious about how I make the slotting scales, which are the custom rulers that set the slot positions in a slotting saw/machine:

For the scribed-line rulers, I use this. It's a 40" Vernier Height Gauge, which will measure 0-40" to a resolution of 0.001". It also does metric to 0.02 mm. This thing cost about $5K new in the '70's. I bought it from a surplus machinery place for $60. It originally stood up vertically, and you'd use it on a surface plate. I took it off the base and made this special wooden cradle to use it horizontally. I use it to make up all my scale length rulers for my own fret slotting saw.

IMG_0675B.jpg


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To make up special slot-style scale rules for Stew-Mac style hand slotting saw jigs, I use my big milling machine with the digital readout. These scales are good to about +/- 0.002"

IMG_9208B.jpg


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Any Harbor Freight tool is suspect. The high tech places I've worked you would never use an HF measuring tool. We have submit personally owned tools to the QC dept for accuracy and certification. In the last 10 years I've had a new set of micrometers and a new dial caliper rejected. Better you should get yourself a proper scale and use ordinate dimensioning starting at the nut to avoid the cumulative error already mentioned.
Good luck!

Tom
 
If you are curious about how I make the slotting scales, which are the custom rulers that set the slot positions in a slotting saw/machine:

For the scribed-line rulers, I use this. It's a 40" Vernier Height Gauge, which will measure 0-40" to a resolution of 0.001". It also does metric to 0.02 mm. This thing cost about $5K new in the '70's. I bought it from a surplus machinery place for $60. It originally stood up vertically, and you'd use it on a surface plate. I took it off the base and made this special wooden cradle to use it horizontally. I use it to make up all my scale length rulers for my own fret slotting saw.

View attachment 5003722

View attachment 5003723

To make up special slot-style scale rules for Stew-Mac style hand slotting saw jigs, I use my big milling machine with the digital readout. These scales are good to about +/- 0.002"

View attachment 5003724

View attachment 5003725

Is that a J model Bridgeport in the background? Nice setup you have there.

Tom
 
Is that a J model Bridgeport in the background? Nice setup you have there.

Tom

You are close. It's a Spanish-made Kondia, an approximate clone of a Bridgeport Series 2. A big strong mill with almost of 12" of Y-axis.

You can see all of my metal shop machines here, mostly on page 42:

Inside The Secret Underground Laboratory
 
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Accuracy doesn't matter. Precision does. If you are building a 34" scale instrument and your ruler is off so you end up building a 33.7" scale instrument, the only impact would be the bridge would need to be shifted a bit.

What matters is that the relative spacing all up the neck is very precise.

My concern with an HF ruler would not be the accuracy (i.e. does it give the "right" measurement) but the precision over time (does it always give the same measurement day after day and at all places along its length).