• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join freeLog in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Cheap Ruler accuracy

I like to use calipers for my multiscale layouts. Also I do layouts on Blue painters tape attached to the fingerboard.
I use a scribe to mark, even a pencil mark can throw things off.

Knife and scribe marks also can help a saw or chisel register into the exact position. A pencil can't.


BTW... If you're not up for Starrett level stuff, these folks Machinist's Tools sell PEC tools at excellent prices.

I've heard from a reliable source that PEC manufactures many similar looking measuring and marking tools for Lee Valley's Veritas brand. I've got a few of the PEC items and they're quite good.
 
My $0.02 -
For fret placement work I recommend a precision ruler with engraved marks at hundreds of an inch. Such a ruler costs about $50. I would never use any measuring instrument that has painted markers for critical fine measurement. It is not just an issue of how wide the paint lines need to be. Because fret placement is fairly critical the most accurate way to transfer markings from ruler to fretboard is with a marking knife. The point of the knife is placed in the engraved mark on the ruler and then moved down to contact the fretboard surface. This can't be done with painted markings.
A number of people have suggested using software tools that create a drawing and then print that out. I can only recommend doing this if you have access to a calibrated large format printer, or if you regularly confirm measurement accuracy of the dimensions of drawings that your printer produces. Home office printers generally can not be calibrated for dimensional accuracy. It turns out they are usually pretty accurate when it comes to dimensions across the page, and they are generally of lower accuracy for dimensions along the length of the page. But the good news is that even along the page, any inaccuracies tend to be consistent. The upshot of the latter is that even an inaccurate printer will (generally) print out fret locations lines that are accurate relative to each other.
I hope this helps.
 
As long as a ruler or fret guide is consistent along its whole length, it isn't a problem if it's long or short compared to another ruler or fret guide. The result might be a bass with a 34.08" scale or 33.91" scale but it will still intonate properly as long as you relied exclusively on that one measuring device.
 
I've used wFret locally installed on each of my Windows PCs for years to generate both fret placement charts and full size printed layout guides. That program, as well as alternative fret layout procedures and guides are still available on the web archive of my old website HERE.

Any layout guide that is printed with a home printer needs to be verified for accuracy, but the zero to 12th position is all you need to measure.

I sand off the markings on a 99 cent aluminum yard stick and transfer printed fret layout guides by scribing the lines to the blank aluminum. That way you only need to do it once for any particular scale you might use and you'll have the equivalent of one of those fancy layout sticks that the supply houses tell you that you should buy only from them.

*************************************************
Sidebar FYI, Skip this unless you need to know or just like to obsess over details.

If you REALLY need accurately printed full size plans, here's the whole story of my adventures that might help if you're going to market your drawings as I did.

I do know a bit about this whole printing issue, as I used to market several different full size plans for several different fretted instruments. It's easy enough to draw them accurately in CAD but more difficult to have them printed. My first attempt having them printed was my local "copy shop", where it turns out that the employees often don't know how to operate their equipment. I gave up on that and went to my local blueprint shop who had really great machines and knew how to run them. The printers at the copy shop were toys by comparison.

Even with a great shop owner and large format industrial printers there were still a few hitches in the process of getting accurate prints. My next step was to download the print drivers from the company that made the printers and save my CAD files in a format using the printer manufacturer's print driver format. That worked reasonably well, but every time I needed another 100 copies of a given print I found that the printer manufacturer's print driver had been updated to a newer version and I had to do through the whole "download, have a print made and verify size" process all over again. This was a bit of a PITA as you might guess.

The shop owner and I found a solution that worked really well for both of us. I simply saved my CAD file (the drawing having an accurate border size dimension) as a PDF and e-mailed the file to the blueprint shop. He then loaded the file, made a test print, and made any small adjustment to the printed drawing's outline box dimension so it matched the size listed on the print's information box.
*************************************************

Now, for those of you playing along at home, here's a hot tip for printed layouts:
Always verify the measured printout, but if it doesn't match EXACTLY then there are two easy solutions. First, check your printer settings to make sure there is no scaling applied. Many printers have a "No scaling" box to check off in the printing command box. Second, if there's a tiny bit of error, simply calculate how much you need to adjust, set a new "adjusted scale length" in the input box (34.07" as an example...) and re-print. Check the actual print out and re-adjust until your printout is dead nuts on.

(...or simply use the original printout that's 1/16" off at the 20th fret and forget about obsessing over something that just doesn't matter...)

I've been building for close to 50 years and the need for extreme accuracy from any particular measuring device isn't as high as what's being related in this topic. The relative fret distance accuracy is much more important, as the final true vibrating length of the string (which includes compensation) is set by saddle location, normally adjustable. (Ardgedee is spot on in his comment above...)

When building instruments it's important to lay out fret positions as accurately as you can, all referenced from a single starting point at the hypothetical zero location, and cutting slots as accurately as you can for each of those positions.

To stress over anything closer than 1/64" just isn't necessary. Most any ruler (or printed layout program) will get you there. There are lots of manufactured rules that will get you that level of accuracy, and I've seen many good examples from some of the eBay sellers, particularly one of the sellers who feature "blemished" rules very economically.

"But don't you want your frets within a few thousandths of an inch?" you might ask. It's hypothetically a great idea, in real life not so much. The whole concept of accurately producing specific frequencies is simply unnecessary when you're working with equal temperament. Any specific note may or may not sound pleasant when combined with other notes and/or other instruments, but that's a whole topic in itself. Scales within equal temperament are by nature unpure, so any misplaced desire to obtain that is well, misplaced. Anyone who works within the field of audio and claims to be able to hear notes that are "off pitch" from a fret that is located a few thousandths from it's "ideal" calculated position isn't "blessed", but "cursed" from that ability. Look at all those examples of "wavy fret" methodology if don't believe that there's not a lot of work going into improving "intonation" of fretted instruments. (There's always someone looking to extract money from an easy mark...)

Again, for all practical purposes, measure, cut, install frets as accurately as you can in your shop and you won't need to feel like you fell short in your work.

Coincidentally, I have a 24" Starrett still in it's original anti-corrosion paper that has been hanging in my tool cabinet for probably 30 years that is on the list of "items that are nice, but I just don't use" to be eBayed.
 
Last edited:
I had a cheap combi-square once in mm, and the issue was that there was about 3mm gap from the end of the ruler to the start of the graduations! Not much use.







The fret printout thing seems like a good idea, but unless you have some kind of industrial sized printer, surely you will end up having to join pieces together? Which kind of feels like inviting more chance of errors.
Fretfind prints alignment markers to help line up sheets. :thumbsup:
 
  • Like
Reactions: Flying B
Probably doesn't apply here, but don't use vintage precision rulers. In the 50's/60's we and other countries at various time adopted the international yard that pegged the inch / foot / yard to the metric standard and thus, redefined the inch as exactly 2.54cm. Yes, we should just go full metric, but that's another argument.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Andy Marshman
If you look at fretfind2d or the StewMac fretboard calculator they’re measuring in thousands of an inch and hundreds or thousands of a mm. Fretfind2d is really easier. As mentioned just print out the scale and number of frets you want and use that as a template. You can check the 12th fret measurement to make sure it printed correctly but the program will do multiscale boards and print to the width you want.
Yea I used that and then compared it to 2 other 25.5 scale fretboards and they didn’t match up exactly, I could have accidentally messed with the scaling but the 22 and the nut lined up so I don’t know
 
I've printed out several fretboards from fretfind2d. I make sure there's no scaling on the printer (prints the image 100% actual size) and then check the distances between the printed fret lines with a HF Pittsburg digital caliper.
It's always accurate.
If you're worried about a couple thousandths of and inch,...you're going to have at least that much variance when you saw the slots.
Don't fret over a couple thousandths.
Also, all those FBs were printed on a typical household printer, 8.5 x 11 paper and spliced together with Scotch tape, xacto knife and a straight edge to line up the centerline.
 
You can’t print a precise ruler

As far as trusting a measuring device, something off a printer would be at the bottom of my list. Even if printer scaling doesn’t decide to make adjustments on its own, there can be variation in the drive and paper.

Even our commercial 36” wide plotter at work isn’t always accurate. The paper width is good, but the length can be a little off based on the feed mechanism. I think it’s usually like 1/8” over 18” or something like that. For most things it’s fine, since they’re just beating and welding steel in the shop. But for anything more precise we have to print one, measure it, then scale it in that direction in Autocad to compensate.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Spectre Gunner