I find LaBella Low Tension just as good as the TI's. ...
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Cheaper version of TI flats?
- Thread starter gimmeagig
- Start date
Flats last forever, all of them, so the price difference still stands. Here in Europe, where they are made, they cost the same as imported American strings like Labellas, strangely enough. You would think imported strings would be more expensive.
Anyway TIs are very light gauge, especially the A string. Are you sure you can deal with that?
Here's some personal reviews of other flats on P bass:
Anyway TIs are very light gauge, especially the A string. Are you sure you can deal with that?
Here's some personal reviews of other flats on P bass:
- Labellas have the classic dark, thumpy sound. Perfect for a P bass but too dark for some. There are several gauges available to accommodate every player.
- Chromes retain a bright edge over time, with somewhat scooped mids. I think these work well on P basses but not everyone likes the high end. I played a Rickenbacker with heavy gauge Chromes and it sounded amazing but of course they had high tension and stiffness, kinda hard to play. The 45-100 set is fine for most.
- Fender 9050s are bright at first but settle into a muddy midrange after a couple of months. I think they fit a Jazz bass better because of its natural scoop in the midrange, which is too prominent on a P bass. I dislike the light gauge E.
- Ernie Ball Cobalts are close to rounds. Listen to Joe Dart on his signature MM bass for the tone.
One thing to be aware of if you’re new to flats is they need a break in period to develop their full sound.
With rounds you start out with their full sound which gradually deteriorates over time. With a flat it’s pretty much the opposite. Flats need some playing time to loosen up and develop their fullest sound. So don’t be surprised if you’re not wild about the way a set of flats sounds when you first put them on. Just play them heavily for awhile and they’ll soon sound much better. And they’ll continue to improve over time.
The good news is once they’ve broken in you won’t have to change them for years. It’s been said most roundwound players look forward to loading up a fresh set of strings whereas most flat players dread string changes because they need to go through that break in period again.
I have a set of TIs that’s over 10 years old and still going strong. The set it replaced was about 12 years old when I changed them. Some players have reported using the same set of TIs for twice that many years. So when you spread their initial cost over their life span they’re actually a huge bargain when you consider how often you’ll be changing out a $30 set of rounds. If you’re used to replacing rounds every couple of months, you’ll beak even on the price of TIs within the first year.
Downsides? The biggest downside for some players is that TIs are very low tension strings. If you like a stiffer string, or you’re a heavy handed player, then you probably won’t like TIs. A second consideration is their sound which isn’t exactly like anything else out there in the flat string world. TIs are unique. They’re the Rotosound of flatwound strings. And you either like their sound or you don’t. But since most people who buy them already know and like that sound, that’s probably not a real issue.
But TIs also aren’t the be all end all of flatwounds. Much as I like them I also like LaBella Deep Talking and GHS Precision flats. And just recently I picked up a set of crazy expensive Dogal Hellborg Stranded Core flats which are rapidly becoming my new favorite flatwound. So don’t be afraid to experiment if the TIs end up not working out for you.
With rounds you start out with their full sound which gradually deteriorates over time. With a flat it’s pretty much the opposite. Flats need some playing time to loosen up and develop their fullest sound. So don’t be surprised if you’re not wild about the way a set of flats sounds when you first put them on. Just play them heavily for awhile and they’ll soon sound much better. And they’ll continue to improve over time.
The good news is once they’ve broken in you won’t have to change them for years. It’s been said most roundwound players look forward to loading up a fresh set of strings whereas most flat players dread string changes because they need to go through that break in period again.
I have a set of TIs that’s over 10 years old and still going strong. The set it replaced was about 12 years old when I changed them. Some players have reported using the same set of TIs for twice that many years. So when you spread their initial cost over their life span they’re actually a huge bargain when you consider how often you’ll be changing out a $30 set of rounds. If you’re used to replacing rounds every couple of months, you’ll beak even on the price of TIs within the first year.
Downsides? The biggest downside for some players is that TIs are very low tension strings. If you like a stiffer string, or you’re a heavy handed player, then you probably won’t like TIs. A second consideration is their sound which isn’t exactly like anything else out there in the flat string world. TIs are unique. They’re the Rotosound of flatwound strings. And you either like their sound or you don’t. But since most people who buy them already know and like that sound, that’s probably not a real issue.
But TIs also aren’t the be all end all of flatwounds. Much as I like them I also like LaBella Deep Talking and GHS Precision flats. And just recently I picked up a set of crazy expensive Dogal Hellborg Stranded Core flats which are rapidly becoming my new favorite flatwound. So don’t be afraid to experiment if the TIs end up not working out for you.
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TI Jazz Flats are unique, there's nothing else even remotely like them and it's not just the tone. They are also MUCH lighter tension and MUCH more flexible than most other flats. This means they will not only SOUND different than other flats but also FEEL very different. Some people like this, others find TIJFs too floppy. Personally I love them, on pretty much any basses EXCEPT P-basses. The strong upper mid presence of TIJFs gets a bit too much for my playing style on P-basses (which already have a strong mid-presence). I like to dig in hard, fingerstyle. With TI flats this can get a bit "clanky" for my taste on a P-bass.
If you get the TI Jazz Flats, make sure you know how to install them properly. These are round core strings so the strings need to be bent 90 degrees (or crimped) before you cut them. If not they may unravel. It's not very complicated, you just bend them where you would need to bend them anyway, to fit into the tuners. It just needs to be done BEFORE you cut them, which can make it a little bit trickier to get the string lengths right. Measure carefully! These strings are far too expensive to ruin them during installation.
You should also be aware that TI flats do not like to be completely loosened. I've ruined sets of TIs when doing this. But when they're installed correctly and kept under tension they will last practically forever. In fact, they just get better and better with age.
One last thing: Even though I love the long scale TIJF sets I also detest the short scale sets. TI got the gauges totally wrong for the short scale TIJF sets. The A/D/G-strings are EXTREMELY floppy and the E-string is far too stiff and rather unarticulate. The huge drop in tension from E to A make them unplayable IMO. TI sell a "Höfner"-set which is better, but most stores don't sell these. The "Höfner" set has a much lighter E-string so that set is far better balanced but still VERY light tension and VERY floppy.
LaBella flats are on the completely opposite side of the tonal spectrum. Dark, thumpy, less sustain. They're also much stiffer and have higher tension. The tension will obviously depend on which specific set you get (unlike the TIs there's a wide range of gauges to choose from) but even the lightest set will feel VERY different to the TIs. LaBella also have a range of Low Tension flats. Still very different from the TIs though.
The most similar strings to TI flats that I've ever played are probably the Optima RB flats. They're still VERY different though (and like the TIs they're also very expensive).
If you get the TI Jazz Flats, make sure you know how to install them properly. These are round core strings so the strings need to be bent 90 degrees (or crimped) before you cut them. If not they may unravel. It's not very complicated, you just bend them where you would need to bend them anyway, to fit into the tuners. It just needs to be done BEFORE you cut them, which can make it a little bit trickier to get the string lengths right. Measure carefully! These strings are far too expensive to ruin them during installation.
You should also be aware that TI flats do not like to be completely loosened. I've ruined sets of TIs when doing this. But when they're installed correctly and kept under tension they will last practically forever. In fact, they just get better and better with age.
One last thing: Even though I love the long scale TIJF sets I also detest the short scale sets. TI got the gauges totally wrong for the short scale TIJF sets. The A/D/G-strings are EXTREMELY floppy and the E-string is far too stiff and rather unarticulate. The huge drop in tension from E to A make them unplayable IMO. TI sell a "Höfner"-set which is better, but most stores don't sell these. The "Höfner" set has a much lighter E-string so that set is far better balanced but still VERY light tension and VERY floppy.
LaBella flats are on the completely opposite side of the tonal spectrum. Dark, thumpy, less sustain. They're also much stiffer and have higher tension. The tension will obviously depend on which specific set you get (unlike the TIs there's a wide range of gauges to choose from) but even the lightest set will feel VERY different to the TIs. LaBella also have a range of Low Tension flats. Still very different from the TIs though.
The most similar strings to TI flats that I've ever played are probably the Optima RB flats. They're still VERY different though (and like the TIs they're also very expensive).
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TIs are my #1 string.
2nd place for me are D'Addario Chrome Flats, their lightest gauge. 40-96 (I think.). And they are affordable.
2nd place for me are D'Addario Chrome Flats, their lightest gauge. 40-96 (I think.). And they are affordable.
I was on similar quest to OP years ago (before accordion accessory… at least before I knew about it). AFAIK the low tensions are supposed to be Labella’s product designed to compete with TI.
I can’t compare to TI, but compared to Labella DTF, there is something quite a bit more responsive on the LTF. I didn’t measure differences in hz, so I don’t have a way of saying whether they have more mids etc. labella LTF made a now gone short scale sound really good. LTF are top of my list for strings now.
Just for the record but, should one not be comfortable with ordering accordion accoutrements, this is the best price (77 bucks) I've been able to find for the Thomastik-Infeld Jazz Flat JF344 in the US:
Thomastik Infeld Flatwound Nickel Jazz Bass Strings Long Scale 43-100 (JF344)
Thomastik Infeld Flatwound Nickel Jazz Bass Strings Long Scale 43-100 (JF344)
One of the key factors that give TI their sound is the flexibility. So id start by looking at the lightest available gauges in typical hexcore rounds. To my blasphemous ears TI's sound really close to extra light gauge halfround strings. I love every sound sample I hear from their products but I too refuse to support them, they strike me as folks who overcharge for a product simply because the ravanous appetite of its consumers allow them to jack up the price to 11, in this day and age any effort by a company to have its products remain affordable goes a very long way in keeping my business.
What if what makes them sound & play so good just takes more time & effort [ie:more cost]? If they deliver the tone, the feel, & last longer than most marriages, they've earned my hard earned dollar.
Be aware that some break in time is necessary. Fresh out of the box they may sound harsh and metallic.
There’s no best string.
TI flats are remarkable in my opinion and it’s just opinion. The lower tension isn’t right for everyone. And if you’re new to flats in general just try any set you can get because you may or may not like them.
That said, every note, every position on every string with TI will be pretty uniform clarity. And they will last as long as you care to own them. In my experience I’d go through 6-8 sets of my next favorite string in the same time period. So if you do the arithmetic TIs cost 1/3 the price of anything else.
TI flats are remarkable in my opinion and it’s just opinion. The lower tension isn’t right for everyone. And if you’re new to flats in general just try any set you can get because you may or may not like them.
That said, every note, every position on every string with TI will be pretty uniform clarity. And they will last as long as you care to own them. In my experience I’d go through 6-8 sets of my next favorite string in the same time period. So if you do the arithmetic TIs cost 1/3 the price of anything else.
So much good information here. Thank you all. The more I read the more I think I might have done the right thing by going with the TIs. I'll find out on Tuesday. On a side note, I made a mute kind of like the nordie mute for my Roundwound P Bass. I sounds pretty close to what I want.The jamerson sound of course and also for Latin Jazz/Salsa stuff, which I also get to do occasionally. So with the mute the TIs will probably get really close without killing my hands.
There is a seller on E Bay who has a budget version of the Nordymute, which seems really overpriced to me. Especially since nobody offers free shipping. I ordered one of those.Bass Guitar String Mute - 4/5/6 String - 16mm thru 19mm string spacing | eBay
There is a seller on E Bay who has a budget version of the Nordymute, which seems really overpriced to me. Especially since nobody offers free shipping. I ordered one of those.Bass Guitar String Mute - 4/5/6 String - 16mm thru 19mm string spacing | eBay
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If I were to attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by the realities of international commerce, I would assume Sadowsky, La Bella and even Dunlop as "folks who overcharge a product". Because Thomastik-Infeld flats are less expensive, here in Europe where they're made, than the aforementioned competition. The truth is much simpler: you're on the wrong side of the Atlantic.
It’s a matter of taste, but I didn’t find them near as good. They feel similar but the LTF’s did not sound near as good-TO ME. Of course some folks will like the LTF sound better. Very personal. For example I don’t care for chromes, but love cobalt flats.
I guess its too late now, but you can always check the TB classifieds to see if you can find a set used. Usually for an appropriate price.
Plus the cost is not a huge deal in my opinion for 2 reasons. First, if you like them they last a long time,I have some on a pbass that was my main gigging axe for 3 years and I’ve been playing them another 5 years and counting since.
Second, if you don’t like them, if you post them on the classifieds here for $55 they will sell immediately. So that’s $11 to give them a try.
Second, if you don’t like them, if you post them on the classifieds here for $55 they will sell immediately. So that’s $11 to give them a try.
I hear you about the price tag on TI flats, how many years to you expect to be playing bass? Try this. Divide the anticipated years of playing bass by the cost of a set of TIs. Ill bet you spend 10 times that figure on your technology each month. Use anything like that you want to justify the amount. Brown bag for a month, no store bought coffee, The fact is, @ $100, TIs are a very good value.
And if you take good care installing them, if you don’t like them, there is a market here on TB’s Classifieds for used broken in TIs that would probably net enough to buy a set of LaBella flats, or two sets of Rounds LOL!
I'm 67,The flats might outlive me LOL
That mute looks cool. Was the one you made yourself similar to that? I wonder what type of foam you would use for the Nordy style. I know I can just use a sponge but it would be cool to try the Nordy version.
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