CheapGuitarStores.com "replica Chinese basses"

[buldog5151bass]

Someone stealing from my house is indeed criminal
Giving the specs and dimensions to outsourcers
who catalog them and duplicate with minor changes
is something else completely.

Keep trying to justify it. It's illegal - they are stealing.

So you are playing at a bar. You don't get paid prior to the gig, and the bar owner doesn't pay you. You made it easy for him. Don't complain. He's just taking advantage of what you did, so he could make money, and provide a service for his customers.

 

[nostatic]

I personally think the moral and ethical implications are just as obvious, but everyone gets to make their own call on those.

The moral compass on these topics usually tracks with people who create things for a living and those that don't.

 

[bholder]

The moral compass on these topics usually tracks with people who create things for a living and those that don't.

I think you're right, part of the reason I feel strongly about the issue is that I've got my name on a few patents - I don't own the monetary rights, of course, but I'd be mighty miffed if someone used my stuff without proper credit. I couldn't threaten them with anything, but my employer can afford some pretty darned expensive lawyers, and they take IP violations extremely seriously.

 

[Clark Dark]

Clearly the answer is yes. I don't particularly care whether you agree or not.

Lol well I know that no one would ever, ever, eva, eva, eva, equate a rare Strat with a Samick, so take that !

Keep trying to justify it. It's illegal - they are stealing.

So you are playing at a bar. You don't get paid prior to the gig, and the bar owner doesn't pay you. You made it easy for him. Don't complain. He's just taking advantage of what you did, so he could make money, and provide a service for his customers.

That is your opinion and you're entitled to it
but if you willingly hand the plans to someone
with the wherewithal and the equipment
to recreate your vision
don't you share some of the responsibility?
Someone offering an inferior product for sale
does not devalue the real McCoy
It's better to educate than have the
Yosemite Sam tirade of
"I'll tar and feather the varmints"


This is fun, but good night
see y'all tomorrow.

 

[buldog5151bass]

Lol well I know that no one would ever, ever, eva, eva, eva, equate a rare Strat with a Samick, so take that !




That is your opinion and you're entitled to it
but if you willingly hand the plans to someone
with the wherewithal and the equipment
to recreate your vision
don't you share some of the responsibility?
Someone offering an inferior product for sale
does not devalue the real McCoy
It's better to educate than have the
Yosemite Sam tirade of
"I'll tar and feather the varmints"


This is fun, but good night
see y'all tomorrow.

That is not my opinion. That is the law.

And in my example, you willingly handed over your music. And as such, you also "share the responsibility".

 

[gln1955]

I think you're right, part of the reason I feel strongly about the issue is that I've got my name on a few patents - I don't own the monetary rights, of course, but I'd be mighty miffed if someone used my stuff without proper credit. I couldn't threaten them with anything, but my employer can afford some pretty darned expensive lawyers, and they take IP violations extremely seriously.

Yes, that's true indeed. Part of my job is creating multimedia tools for teaching anatomy. The photos, drawings and coding involved are all valuable intellectual property. I've had some of my work taken by entities in Asia and distributed under their name. It infuriated me, but there was little I or the university could do to stop it. The cost of even trying to go after a foreign pirate is way too high unless the IP is worth millions.

 

[gln1955]

Say you have an original 58 Strat
I have a Samick copy
we both have papers
are you saying, do you believe
that a collector would think your original
is devalued by my copy?
Can a diamond be devalued by glass?
Ever?

A collector '58 Strat makes a straw man argument. Of course, collectors are going to know the difference and won't be fooled by a counterfeit, so no its value is not diminished. The harm to Fender is that if these Chinese fakes are even close to the same quality of say a MIM Fender product for a couple hundred less, they will pull some business away from Fender. Lower sales will force Fender to raise prices (no, they won't drop them to match the fakes). This hurts everyone buying a new Fender. Having decent enough fakes in the used market also hurts anyone selling a used Fender. Again, talking about run of the mill Fenders, not vintage.

 

[rodv66]

What I don't get is why you would spend 300$ on a fake Chinese Fender when you can buy a used one for the same price? Setting aside morality and legality, if there is a demand for a 2000$ bass and I can provide a copy for 390$, then there is an incentive to buy it, even if you need to put 600$ into it, you still are a grand in the clear. But a fake Spector or Squire makes no business sense at all

 

[nostatic]

Setting aside morality and legality, if there is a demand for a 2000$ bass and I can provide a copy for 390$, then there is an incentive to buy it, even if you need to put 600$ into it, you still are a grand in the clear.

The problem is too many people do just that. Until someone takes something from them, then suddenly they have a moral compass.

 

[pcake]

forgetting the morality for a minute, the pictures seem to be real schecters. that means you have no idea at all what the counterfeits will actually look like since they aren't offering pics of their actual products. they could look pretty bad, and that's assuming the really ship the bass and that it's okay with no neck or other issues. and then the chances of them sounding like a schecter isn't very good...

 

[Clark Dark]

Keep trying to justify it. It's illegal - they are stealing.

So you are playing at a bar. You don't get paid prior to the gig, and the bar owner doesn't pay you. You made it easy for him. Don't complain. He's just taking advantage of what you did, so he could make money, and provide a service for his customers.

That's what I get for multitasking
if you didn't get paid
you didn't do your
due diligence
of writing a contract
my remarks still stand


Good Morning Everybody

 

[Atshen]

...but if you willingly hand the plans to someone with the wherewithal and the equipment to recreate your vision don't you share some of the responsibility?

I don't get that part. Do you really think that they "willingly hand the plans" to someone? It isn't really hard to reverse-engineer an object as simple as an electric guitar. I've done it many times.

 

[Clark Dark]

A collector '58 Strat makes a straw man argument. Of course, collectors are going to know the difference and won't be fooled by a counterfeit, so no its value is not diminished. The harm to Fender is that if these Chinese fakes are even close to the same quality of say a MIM Fender product for a couple hundred less, they will pull some business away from Fender. Lower sales will force Fender to raise prices (no, they won't drop them to match the fakes). This hurts everyone buying a new Fender. Having decent enough fakes in the used market also hurts anyone selling a used Fender. Again, talking about run of the mill Fenders, not vintage.

Ouch
I wouldn't use Fender
in this discussion
there are MIJ
there are MIK
there are MIM
they've spread their
legs like a $20 ___
so many iterations
originals
classics
RI
RW
Pro
Master
who knows what else
is down the pike
with them

I so hope no one is feeling any vitriol because it's having open dialogue like this that will educate someone from getting burned.

Think...
it ain't illegal yet !!!

 

[mellowinman]

Look, I get as tired as anyone of the Talk Bass Boy Scout Moral/Ethical Identity Squad, but in this case, they're right.

 

[Clark Dark]

I don't get that part. Do you really think that they "willingly hand the plans" to someone? It isn't really hard to reverse-engineer an object as simple as an electric guitar. I've done it many times.

Then you sir are a charlatan
needing to be tarred and feathered
pimp walked
err, I mean perp walked

 

[buldog5151bass]

That's what I get for multitasking
if you didn't get paid
you didn't do your
due diligence
of writing a conntract
my remarks still stand


Good Morning Everybody

What - you don't think there is a written contract with the American companies and the overseas manufacturers, including descriptions of the confidential information and the non-competition/confidentiality provisions??? I write these for a living.

You think most bars will agree to a written contract, or that it will make a difference???

Plleeeeaaaaasssssseeeee ...

 

[gln1955]

Ouch
I wouldn't use Fender
in this discussion
there are MIJ
there are MIK
there are MIM
they've spread their
legs like a $20 ___
so many iterations
originals
classics
RI
RW
Pro
Master
who knows what else
is down the pike
with them

I so hope no one is feeling any vitriol because it's having open dialogue like this that will educate someone from getting burned.

Think...
it ain't illegal yet !!!

I couldn't find anything in your post relevant to this discussion. Are you sure you're awake?

 

[Atshen]

Then you sir are a charlatan
needing to be tarred and feathered
pimp walked
err, I mean perp walked

Hey! It was part of my job and at least we didn't try to pass it as a Fender or Gibson!

 

[kodiakblair]

A collector '58 Strat makes a straw man argument. Of course, collectors are going to know the difference and won't be fooled by a counterfeit, so no its value is not diminished. The harm to Fender is that if these Chinese fakes are even close to the same quality of say a MIM Fender product for a couple hundred less, they will pull some business away from Fender. Lower sales will force Fender to raise prices (no, they won't drop them to match the fakes). This hurts everyone buying a new Fender. Having decent enough fakes in the used market also hurts anyone selling a used Fender. Again, talking about run of the mill Fenders, not vintage.

Sounds like you're thinking of the Gibson/Fender situation in the early 80s with certain Japanese guitars. Only back then it forced Gibson and Fender to up their game,they'd grown complacent regarding QC.

Aside from the counterfeit issue if companies are charging 3 or sometimes 4 times as much for similar products just because they "Can" then they deserve to go out of business. It shows nothing but contempt for customers. Hope somebody from TPG Capital & Servco Pacific is listening.

 

[Clark Dark]

I couldn't find anything in your post relevant to this discussion. Are you sure you're awake?

You must've missed all the fun we've been having for the last two or three pages