Chinese knock-off basses

[buldog5151bass]

Your friend could have gotten an Epiphone Les Paul for less money, which would have been a better instrument.

 

[Eddie LeBlanc]

Your friend could have gotten an Epiphone Les Paul for less money, which would have been a better instrument.

True..... I think his whole intent was to fool people into thinking it was a Gibson Les Paul. Now he's stuck with it, and keeps trying to modify his settings on his amp, or try another pedal to make it sound better. So far no luck. It still sounds like crap on the stage. Now he's changing strings thinking that will help, so far he's had three different sets on it. Oh well. Hard to turn a Hot Dog into a T-Bone.

 

[buldog5151bass]

True..... I think his whole intent ws to fool people into thinking it was a Gibson. Now he's stuck with it, and keeps trying to modify his settings on his amp, or try another pedal to make it sound better. So far no luck. It still sounds like crap on the stage.

. Such is the issue with counterfeits - you get something that kinda looks like the original, but you have no idea how it plays or sounds, and you often are SOL if it is garbage.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Asdfgh - I think the FED creates money with bonds, and fractional reserve banking creates debt.
Your opinion would be welcome.
Incidentally, I'm currently attending my son's wedding on Kefalonia, a Greek island - wearing my new, expensive, John Lewis suit. Made in China.

The creation of debt through fractional reserve banking creates the money that is lent. It's the primary engine of debt creation. I'm not sure if the Fed issuing bonds creates debt, and thus money, but it's relatively small.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

The deal was these counterfeit Chinese basses and guitars. I have never have had hands on a Counterfeit Bass, but know a friend that just bought a Chinese "Les Paul Custom" with Gibson written on the Head. Looks like a Gibson in every way, except it is made with cheap electronics, pickups, Tuners, Bridge, etc. It sounds and plays like crap, and the fretts are a mess. The knobs won't even stay on the pots, so he used plumbers putty to help them not fall off. Paid $300 for it. But if you are watching him play it, you'd swear it was a Gibson LEs Palu Custom, that someone can't make sound right.

All I can say is he wasted his $300 (plus he had to pay about $65 in shipping). Even the hard shell case has Gibson written on it. A total copy. If he'd have been smart, he would have saved another $400 or so and bought a Gibson Les Paul Studio, or Save a Little more and get a regular Les Paul. As far as me and his freinds are concerned he wasted his money.

I bought a sort of knock off Les Paul Japan Bass in the early 70s, it was an Electra. Looked like a Les Paul Bass, but had much better quality than these Chinese Knock-offs, and at that time I paid $300 for it. But it had Electra inlaid on the Headstock, not Gibson. Eventually Electra got sued by Gibson for making them, and it didn't say Gibson anywhere on it. Now those basses sell for more than they did in the 70s, and are still a pretty good playing bass. But remember in 1970, $300 dollars was worth many times more than what it is now.

I still have that bass, it's been converted to frettless, Pickups changed to Bill Lawrence, and typical Gibson fully adjustable bridge installed, and Grover Titan Tuners added, changed the pots and added coil tap switches. She is still a hell of a bass now.

But here is an original pic, when it was un modified. And what caused the Gibson Law Suit.
View attachment 3059488
View attachment 3059486

He could have got a Harley Benton that looks like a Les Paul for less, and would have been better quality than what he got.

 

[GretschWretch]

Wow! History repeats itself. We seem to have gotten ourselves embroiled in another Sino-crapanese war.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

A few years ago there was some controversy over whether or not Chinese knock offs were violating US patents by putting names like Gibson on the headstock. This seems to be part of the culture. There was a Top Gear episode showing Chinese made cars that were knock offs of Mini Coopers and others. They had a bike with the brand name Hongda. The only reason I can think of to save the credibility of the manufacturers of such products is to understand that the languages have completely different characters from English, and they may think the brand names are merely decorations and free to be copied as such. Although some of the instruments do have more finish choices than the originals (purple burst Ric clones, etc.), I still wouldn't buy one. If you really want a Chinese bass, get a Fender Modern Player. At least it's not a knock off, it's a legitimate Fender (or what passes for one these days ).

Gibson is a trademark, not a patent.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

True..... I think his whole intent was to fool people into thinking it was a Gibson Les Paul. Now he's stuck with it, and keeps trying to modify his settings on his amp, or try another pedal to make it sound better. So far no luck. It still sounds like crap on the stage. Now he's changing strings thinking that will help, so far he's had three different sets on it. Oh well. Hard to turn a Hot Dog into a T-Bone.

Why doesn't he change the pickups and other electronics? That would be $100 for something reasonable. Another $100 for a level and crown.

And $25 to get the counterfeit logo removed and headstock refinished.

 

[Engle]

I bought a sort of knock off Les Paul Japan Bass in the early 70s, it was an Electra. Looked like a Les Paul Bass, but had much better quality than these Chinese Knock-offs, and at that time I paid $300 for it. But it had Electra inlaid on the Headstock, not Gibson. Eventually Electra got sued by Gibson for making them, and it didn't say Gibson anywhere on it. Now those basses sell for more than they did in the 70s, and are still a pretty good playing bass. But remember in 1970, $300 dollars was worth many times more than what it is now.

I still have that bass, it's been converted to frettless, Pickups changed to Bill Lawrence, and typical Gibson fully adjustable bridge installed, and Grover Titan Tuners added, changed the pots and added coil tap switches. She is still a hell of a bass now.

But here is an original pic, when it was un modified. And what caused the Gibson Law Suit.
View attachment 3059488
View attachment 3059486

That has to be the crappiest bass bridge ever made. My Japanese Dan Armstrong copy had the same one. Were those faux humbuckers?

 

[jamro217]

Gibson is a trademark, not a patent.

Yes. Some of the designs are patented, though. So the idea of a trademark versus a patent infringement in this case is the same as pointing out that a car thief was also a speeder. I was trying to alert other posters to the situation, not get into the legalities of the abuses. You are correct in the differences between the two and I thank you for pointing it out, though. Have a great day.

 

[Agni]

Asdfgh- thanks for that - seems we have different understandings. No problem.
Would you agree that the difference between fractional reserve banking and a Ponzi scheme is merely one of scale?

Eddie LaBlanc, a perfect example of the perils of buying a name, rather than the instrument itself.
Caveat emptor still applies -- if you take a gamble on the 'net with Chinese goods of any description, it's pointless whinging if you get a dud. I never have.
Anyone whose choice is determined solely by the name on the instrument, deserves to get stung.
It's a learning experience ... should be worth every penny.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Yes. Some of the designs are patented, though. So the idea of a trademark versus a patent infringement in this case is the same as pointing out that a car thief was also a speeder. I was trying to alert other posters to the situation, not get into the legalities of the abuses. You are correct in the differences between the two and I thank you for pointing it out, though. Have a great day.

Trademarks and patents have very different rules. Patents can also be design patents. Patents are time limited, and do not expire if not defended. Trademarks are perpetual, but become invalid if not defended.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Asdfgh- thanks for that - seems we have different understandings. No problem.
Would you agree that the difference between fractional reserve banking and a Ponzi scheme is merely one of scale?

Eddie LaBlanc, a perfect example of the perils of buying a name, rather than the instrument itself.
Caveat emptor still applies -- if you take a gamble on the 'net with Chinese goods of any description, it's pointless whinging if you get a dud. I never have.
Anyone whose choice is determined solely by the name on the instrument, deserves to get stung.
It's a learning experience ... should be worth every penny.

No, I would not agree that fractional reserve banking is a Ponzi scheme. To equate them misunderstands the nature of money and the value of currency expansion to support economic growth. I'd suggest starting with works by Galbraith to provide a grounding as his history of economics is quite readable.

 

[buldog5151bass]

Only here would a discussion on counterfeit instruments turn into dissertations on global economics. As I've said before in other places, there is no subject we can't hijack. That's why I love it here.

 

[Eddie LeBlanc]

That has to be the crappiest bass bridge ever made. My Japanese Dan Armstrong copy had the same one. Were those faux humbuckers?

They were real Japan made humbuckers. And yes I changed the bridge to a dual screw mount fully adjustable one. Looked like a Hipshot dual screw Gibson Replacement, forgot what brand it was, that was a few decades ago.

 

[Eddie LeBlanc]

Asdfgh- thanks for that - seems we have different understandings. No problem.
Would you agree that the difference between fractional reserve banking and a Ponzi scheme is merely one of scale?

Eddie LaBlanc, a perfect example of the perils of buying a name, rather than the instrument itself.
Caveat emptor still applies -- if you take a gamble on the 'net with Chinese goods of any description, it's pointless whinging if you get a dud. I never have.
Anyone whose choice is determined solely by the name on the instrument, deserves to get stung.
It's a learning experience ... should be worth every penny.

If China wanted to really enter the Market with a name, they'd create their own instruments, and write the name in English. That was how Ibanez (and many others) started in Japan. Now they make some real respectable instruments. But I'm afraid if China wants to continue in the Knockoff Copy Market, they'll get no where building cheap crap.

Or they could be contracted with by major manufacturers, and the major manufacturers hold them to quality and specification standards. Spector has Basses made in Korea, that are great playing basses, done to the Spector Standards, and utilizing proper parts like EMG Pups and Schaller Tuners, and a Spector bridge. And the Euro Spectors made in Czechoslovakia, and really professional instruments, played by professionals all over the world. They too are held to standards by Spector.

Just saying. Ya pay ur money, and u take ur chances.

 

[Eddie LeBlanc]

That has to be the crappiest bass bridge ever made. My Japanese Dan Armstrong copy had the same one. Were those faux humbuckers?

BTW at one time I had the first year model Gibson EB0 , I think 1959 model, had no beveling on the body. It had the same style crappy bridge. In fact the replacement adjustable one, was made to replace those early EB0 bridges. It belonged to my guitar player's dad, I used that thing for a couple of years. Sure wish I could have bought it.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

If China wanted to really enter the Market with a name, they'd create their own instruments, and write the name in English. That was how Ibanez (and many others) started in Japan. Now they make some real respectable instruments. But I'm afraid if China wants to continue in the Knockoff Copy Market, they'll get no where building cheap crap.

Or they could be contracted with by major manufacturers, and the major manufacturers hold them to quality and specification standards. Spector has Basses made in Korea, that are great playing basses, done to the Spector Standards, and utilizing proper parts like EMG Pups and Schaller Tuners, and a Spector bridge. And the Euro Spectors made in Czechoslovakia, and really professional instruments, played by professionals all over the world. They too are held to standards by Spector.

Just saying. Ya pay ur money, and u take ur chances.

They do make instruments in China under various brands (although Harley Benton has moved to Vietnam AFAIK), such as Squier and Epiphone, and probably others.

 

[Agni]

Eddie, I take your point, but --
Mainland China has 105 metropolitan areas with over a million people each.
In the European Union’s 28 member countries, there are a total of 34 urban areas with populations of one million or more.

So generalisations about what "China" might do, are tricky, don't you think?
I think we see only the tip of the iceberg.
As yet.

 

[buldog5151bass]

@Agni No one is commenting on the non-counterfeits. I think @Eddie LeBlanc is suggesting that I'd Chinese companies would enter the legit market, rather than all the counterfeits, people would happily buy them, assuming they made quality.