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Chinese knock-off basses

#121
2tonic said:
Nonexistent, at best! :roflmao:
My point was that trying to suss out a 56 channel console mainframe and power supplies (plural) with sketchy technical data, due to bad, or inventive, tranlations is, shall we say.............an amusing endeavor!
We would reread it several times, curse, and wonder aloud "why didn't they just hire a bi-lingual person to proofread the manuals?"
There were many examples of this, from multiple companies, back in the day. Some more notorious than others, and still a good conversation starter in engineer circles.:)
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Not just "back in the day"... Every month I spend an inordinate amount of time correcting the "English" in documentation proofs for a current overseas manufacturer of aircraft engines (who must remain nameless...)
 
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#122
buldog5151bass said:
Warmoth and other parts are legal - Fender did not protect its trademarks. Any business owner has a duty to do that. Moreover, those are licensed by Fender, which means Fender is getting paid. It is not the same.
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GBBSbassist has a valid point when he mentions the Fender logo ... lotsa people could get fooled by a good example. Sure, you can take the neck off and look for the Warmoth stamp - but by that time its probably too late to return it... end result : "FRAUD"
 
#123
We are lucky to have some real experts here on TB who can almost instantly spot even a convincing fake, particularly for Fender and Gibson arcana. I have a fair eye for Ric and Steinberger fakes, but I’ve been fooled too. When in doubt, ask here! Better to eat crow than get burned.
 
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#124
Gilmourisgod said:
We are lucky to have some real experts here on TB who can almost instantly spot even a convincing fake, particularly for Fender and Gibson arcana. I have a fair eye for Ric and Steinberger fakes, but I’ve been fooled too. When in doubt, ask here! Better to eat crow than get burned.
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Unfortunately, most people buying instruments, either for themselves or others are not members of talkbass. Never mind the fact that sometimes, even the opinions of members here differ.
 
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#125
Gilmourisgod said:
The actual cost of fakes to major guitar makers in the form of lost business is debatable, the reality of scammers trying to pass the Chinese counterfeits off as real is not, recent thread where some scumbag was trying to sell a blatantly fake Steinberger M4 as genuine for $700, about twice what it's worth on Aliexpress. I was fooled myself until I looked at it on a bigger screen, Luckily the TB'er thought it looked a little fishy and asked:
Steinberger Bass M series(help)
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Agreed. I care not for how they effect the manufacturers... more accurately, I'll care about the manufacturers as much as they care about me, but a guy building a fake with the intention of selling it to someone as real, is another story. Those people should be dealt with.
 
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#126
IMO trademarking the shape of a bass is about as reasonable as trademarking a spoon design. Basses are designed for human use, so manufacturers have to dance around design copyrights to accomplish the same function of ergonomic utility. This dance doesn't give us better basses, it gives us proxy debates inforums on behalf of distant LLC's we have no stock in.
 
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#127
Anybody who plays a Ric knows they were designed to look cool, not for Ergonomic utility!:laugh: I can’t think of a bass with a more distinctive look and fewer concessions to the human body, must be why I love them. They are one of the few companies that aggressively defended their copyright, I guess they earned the right to fight this losing battle.
 
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#129
Cliff Colton said:
The price informs you that it’s not a Ric. The pawn shop is not trying to deceive anyone.
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If the bass has a TRC on it that says "Rickenbacker", and "Made in the USA", and the pawn shop knows neither of those things is true, they are not trying to deceive you..... How exactly? I don't see how the price enters into it, the fact that you "should" know better than to expect to get a real Ric for cheap is irrelevant. The Pawn shop "should" know better than to try to foist counterfeit basses onto suckers, but some pawn shops simply don't give a sh*t.
 
#132
Gilmourisgod said:
Anybody who plays a Ric knows they were designed to look cool, not for Ergonomic utility!:laugh: I can’t think of a bass with a more distinctive look and fewer concessions to the human body.
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How about this one?

114515.jpg
 
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#133
Gilmourisgod said:
If the bass has a TRC on it that says "Rickenbacker", and "Made in the USA", and the pawn shop knows neither of those things is true, they are not trying to deceive you..... How exactly? I don't see how the price enters into it, the fact that you "should" know better than to expect to get a real Ric for cheap is irrelevant. The Pawn shop "should" know better than to try to foist counterfeit basses onto suckers, but some pawn shops simply don't give a sh*t.
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The market value of the copy bass is $400 and that’s what they are selling it for. I don’t see any deceit by the pawn shop. If they removed the truss rod cover and listed the bass for $1,500 obo, then that’s deception.
 
#134
Cliff Colton said:
The market value of the copy bass is $400 and that’s what they are selling it for. I don’t see any deceit by the pawn shop. If they removed the truss rod cover and listed the bass for $1,500 obo, then that’s deception.
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Your logic escapes me, it's the very definition of deception. Selling fake merchandise as real.
 
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#138
The pawn shop never said it was real. They acknowledged it was a copy and they are selling it for the market price of a copy. Whether they are lawfully permitted to sell the item is a question of jurisdiction. But here, they are not trying to deceive anyone.
 
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#139
Cliff Colton said:
The pawn shop never said it was real. They acknowledged it was a copy and they are selling it for the market price of a copy. Whether they are lawfully permitted to sell the item is a question of jurisdiction. But here, they are not trying to deceive anyone.
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By displaying it with a false brand name on it, they are attempting to sell it as real. End of story.
 
#140
Cliff Colton said:
The pawn shop never said it was real. They acknowledged it was a copy and they are selling it for the market price of a copy. Whether they are lawfully permitted to sell the item is a question of jurisdiction. But here, they are not trying to deceive anyone.
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Not sure where you're getting this from but I think you're referring to this comment?
Gilmourisgod said:
On the flip side, let’s not pretend counterfeiting guitars is a victimless crime. I recently saw a Chickenbacker 4003 bass, complete with fake Ric “made in USA” badge, for sale in a pawn shop for $400. I pointed out it’s obvious (to me) fakery, and got the “I don’t give a flying f**k” shrug from the counter flunky. You’d have to be pretty stupid to think you are getting a real Ric for $400, but, in the words of PT Barnum....
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If I'm reading this correctly, Gilmourisgod was the one who pointed out that it was a fake and got a "couldn't care less" response from the pawn shop. So they never said it was real, nor did it mention it wasn't either. Regardless, selling counterfeit instruments is illegal in the US. It is not a question of jurisdiction it's considered a federal crime here.
Special Report: Gibson Fakes Flood The Market

I'm not going to say don't do it, that's up to you to decide, just want to mention the legality of the whole thing. Take it for what it is, buy or don't buy it....it's your decision. Will the Feds go after you? Probably not if you're buying a bass or two, you're small potatoes in the counterfeit picture , they're going after those that are bringing counterfeit good in this country in larger quantities. It's not just basses after all, it's also the fake rolex watches, gucci, prada shoes etc.
The original question of the post is whether they're any good or not. From the few fakes I've run into here in the US and the more abundant fakes I couldn't help but run into in other countries where they are more lax with legal issues, they're nothing like the genuine instrument for sure, some are playable, some can be perhaps modded to be acceptable, some are just pure crap. Caveat Emptor.
 
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