Chords on a bass

[lermgalieu]

Mike Mills of R.E.M. does plenty of strummed root-fifth pairs on his Rickenbacker bass in this tune (especially during the verses) from the album Murmur (1983). In fact, the bass really dominates here in places leaving the guitarist, Peter Buck, in a supportive role. It’s one of my favorite albums:

Read my mind - was just going to reference Mills.

 

[HolmeBass]

The thing that prevents using chords musically is intermodulation distortion - aka beat notes, if you're using musician lingo. In your rig (mostly your speakers), In the PA, and if it's loud enough, even in the ears of the listeners, if you play two tones, the non-linearities in the system generate difference frequencies - a 3rd tone who's frequency is the difference between the two tones. They also create a tone who's frequency is the sum of the first two frequencies, but that tone is less problematic, so we'll focus on the difference tone. Intermod is particularly prevalent at lower frequencies - the non linear excursions of loudspeakers moving decent distances makes this phenomenon very strong and important in our musical "turf".

So, let's say you play a low E - 41 Hz. If you also play an octave above that at the same time (82 Hz), the difference tone is 82-41, which gives us 41Hz - the same as the low E. You can play octaves all the way down on a bass, even to the low B of a 5 string, and it'll sound OK through most rigs, because the difference tone is in sync with the fundamental of the lower note.

If you play a fifth, the higher note is 1.5 times the frequency of the first. So, a low E is again, 41 Hz, and the A (a fifth above) is 61.5 Hz. The difference frequency is 20.5 Hz - that's really low. Your rig won't handle that well, it'll sound like mud. But move up the scale of the bass, and things get better - an octave higher, you get 82 Hz, 123H, and a difference frequency third tone of 41 Hz - that will sound OK.

One neat trick, using intermod to your advantage. On a standard tuned 4 string bass, when you're playing a D, a lot of the time, you wish you could play the D an octave lower, but you can't. If you play the D on the A string, and the A a fifth higher, the difference frequency that combination creates is....the note you wish you could play. Most (but not all) rigs willl do OK with that combination of notes. That double stop sounds thicker and lower than the D alone, and is a decent workaround to not having a 5 string for that partricular case. But go much lower thatn that with fifths, and you're back in trouble.

If you go to thirds, the frequency spacing gets closer - a minor third is closer than a major third, which enters into things.

The upshot of all of this is, the higher you go in pitch, the closer the musical interval you can play, and have it sound good. It's the laws of Physics, the limitations of your gear, and psychoacoustics that determine all of this.

This is gold, and also explains why power chords on E, D, and C w/ root on the A string (frets 7, 5, and 3) sound so boss.

Another interesting tie-in is that difference and sum frequencies are also how non-linearities in wind wave fields cascade energy down into the infragravity “surf beat” portion of the spectrum.

 

[NortyFiner]

A factor I haven't seen mentioned yet: bass (whether upright or guitar) requires a certain amount of strength to play; even more so if you're talking about fretting and stroking chords on the crane cables we call strings. One of the things that impressed me most about Lemmy, especially late into his life, is the strength and endurance he must have had in his hands and forearms to jackhammer power chords like he did.

 

[selowitch]

I think it’s clear that you absolutely can use chords on a bass but you ought to use them judiciously and appropriately. Or, if you don’t want to use them judiciously and appropriately, you can use them like Lemmy.

 

[Wasnex]

That is an incredibly deft bass performance for sure, but it’s not Chuck Rainey. Also there is one point where two different bass tracks overlap that is pretty difficult to play as recorded.

“The bassist is Craig Akin. The tune is “The Streetbeater” by Quincy Jones – but you may know it better as the theme to Sanford and Son.” From Google, attribution is from NoTreble, but there used to be a Wikipedia entry that also showed not Chuck Rainey and not Carol Kaye, although firmly and masterfully in that style.

Thanks...I had not idea who the bass player was to be honest. I just remembered the double stops near the beginning of the tune and wanted to share a great tune.

I chose that particular version because it had a transcription, but like I said the transcription is not 100% accurate IMHO....man it is hard to count that sucka!

 

[bass theory]

I learned a lot via this thread, and I thank you for contributing. For my own purposes, Since right now the only person I am playing for is me, I intend to work with power chords, chords, and double stops as part of my practice routine. That way when the time is right to us them they will come as naturally as any other technique. I think that the only way to know when the time is right will be trial and error for a while until familiarity with a situation arises. And a lot depends on when if and with who I play gigs with next. maybe I'll get lucky and find a band with a guitar player who likes to play off the bass and do call/response type stuff.
In my own mind I think the best possible role for a bass player is what roger waters had with Pink Floyd. with Waters playing, the bass part had the lead as often as the rhythm, and was almost never just fill. Or perhaps Chris Squire with Yes. Now there was a band whose music was advanced enough that each instrument could be playing what amounts to a solo at the same time, and still mesh together into a beautiful sound. Many years ago I played drums in a band that covered a lot of Yes and EL&P songs. loved every second of it.

 

[consectaneus]

Here's Lou Barlow (Dinosaur Jr.) talking chords on bass and gear.


Also check out Clint Conley with Mission Of Burma. He plays chords like a rhythm guitarist too.

 

[g-dude]

Guitarists turn up because they think they're there to drown out the bass - that hearing the bass make them less important somehow. What they don't understand is that their purpose is to just add a little sparkle to the bass line.

Huh. So what you’re saying is that I should stop turning down the electric guitar for my in ear mix, because I’ll hear some sparkle?

Sounds just crazy enough to work.

 

[micguy]

Huh. So what you’re saying is that I should stop turning down the electric guitar for my in ear mix, because I’ll hear some sparkle?

Sounds just crazy enough to work.

My in ear mix always starts with very little guitar in it - you never know how loud they're going to be, I'd rather have too little than too much (and get my ears blasted). Sometimes I get around to turning the guitars, but I can often do my job very well without hearing much guitar at all.

 

[micguy]

Another interesting tie-in is that difference and sum frequencies are also how non-linearities in wind wave fields cascade energy down into the infragravity “surf beat” portion of the spectrum.

Having studied Physics, you find this all the time - the same kinds of concepts and math often work in what you would think are widely disparate fields.

 

[g-dude]

My in ear mix always starts with very little guitar in it - you never know how loud they're going to be, I'd rather have too little than too much (and get my ears blasted). Sometimes I get around to turning the guitars, but I can often do my job very well without hearing much guitar at all.

Whoever shares my mix settings when I’m not playing at church keeps the electric guitar low as well. However they crank the keyboards - probably because their IEMs aren’t as loud as mine. The result is bleeding ears if I forget to adjust the levels before putting my earbuds in.

Of course, this also means there’s no way they are hearing the electric guitar ever.

 

[Pauly 4001]

The great Dennis Dunaway often played octaves, fifths and chords in Alice Cooper:

 

[LetItGrowTone]

Excellent example!