Chris Squire on NPR rant

[hrodbert696]

Just on to say I think this happened with a LOT of bands in the 80s--bands, that is, that had been around since the 60s or early 70s.

Not trying to start (or continue) a debate on the relative merits of different periods in the Yes canon...just saying it seems like many bands who had already been around +/- 2 decades by the time the 80s were in full swing stumbled a bit in the 80s...succumbed to fashion, MTV, production techniques ala gated drums and MIDI-interfaced everything...a lot of them resorted to getting their songs from teams instead of writing themselves...

Heart, Jefferson (Airplane) Starship, even the Stones and Springsteen did some work that, IMO, was just NOT them in order to follow on the coattails of new things that were emerging. Success (both artistically and critically) was mixed in a lot of cases.

This isn't a knock against 80s music. I think a lot of bands and artists who kicked off in the 80s were inventive and fresh and I like a lot of music from that era (including some of the 80s work of many of the older bands I mentioned from previous decades) but I always felt like a lot of the Old Guard Rockers were sort of wandering in the desert throughout some of that decade.

Punk had come along and thrown everyone for a loop, around '76: and then disco was suddenly dominating the charts. The 60s and early 70s bands that thought they were the vanguard of a new generation suddenly were made out to be dinosaurs and in danger of becoming irrelevant. I agree, they were scrambling to try and figure out how to stay afloat in the new era. Some did it well and others not so much. But Yes wasn't having someone else write their songs for them, except insofar as Trevor Horn (who had taken the lead singing role anyway when Jon Anderson left, and was effectively an alum member) continued to play an active role. I thought they probably did the best job of anyone adapting; Owner of a Lonely Heart and Leave It made sense to teens like myself cutting our teeth on New Wave music, but also didn't sound like anything else out there. They weren't just trying to bandwagon on the Pet Shop Boys or Duran Duran or anything.

It's YES alright, though I've read that it, among others, were all written, recorded and produced before hand as solo Trevor Rabin material. Plus Anderson was almost included as a courtesy, since Trevor sang all the leads himself in the original pre-Yes recordings. - though i may be misinformed. -- But, that aside, it is YES. Kinda.

I think it's exaggerated to say 90125 was all written and done before Anderson rejoined. Like I said (post #16), it was supposed to be a new project with Rabin as front man, and they started that way. But from what I read, it was more like it was stalling out midway along. Anderson didn't really write much for the album, but it didn't come together finally until they brought him in.

 

[MrLenny1]

RIP Chris Squire
RIP Mike Porcaro
Both of their bands are touring together this summer.
YES is one of my fav bands ever.
IMHO no one plays or writes like they do.

 

[ReneB]

@reddog

May I suggest you give a listen to:

"Yours Is No Disgrace"
"I've Seen All Good People"
"Long Distance Runaround"
"The Fish (Schindleria Praematurus)"
"Heart of the Sunrise"
"And You and I"
"Siberian Khatru"

I think these tunes would give you a good footing in early-mid Yes and in particular, because Bruford was the drummer, the interplay between the bass and drums is particularly good. I always liked Bruford's drumming more than his replacement, Alan White.

 

[mixtapelove]

Yeah, Tony Kaye, their original keyboardist, was on 90215. Tony and Peter Banks, the original guitarist, left Yes after the 2nd album, and formed Flash.

Right.... clearly nobody had told the radio guys. I figured anybody with an even passing knowledge of Yes would have been aware of the lineup variances.

 

[Chrisk-K]

Chris almost always tried to play in concert on the same instrument that he used for recording any particular song. (Notice i did say "almost always").
Having said that,every time i've seen Ritual performed live,he used the RM. As for the different tone,it always sounded to me like he was favoring the horseshoe pickup to get that sound.

I just watched a video of Yes performing Ritual in 1975. Chris used his Ric. What is the "RM"???

 

[gjohnson441496]

@reddog

May I suggest you give a listen to:

"Yours Is No Disgrace"
"I've Seen All Good People"
"Long Distance Runaround"
"The Fish (Schindleria Praematurus)"
"Heart of the Sunrise"
"And You and I"
"Siberian Khatru"

I think these tunes would give you a good footing in early-mid Yes and in particular, because Bruford was the drummer, the interplay between the bass and drums is particularly good. I always liked Bruford's drumming more than his replacement, Alan White.

Heart Of The Sunrise is soooo freaking AWESOME! All of the above is fantastic.

 

[moody]

I just watched a video of Yes performing Ritual in 1975. Chris used his Ric. What is the "RM"???

It is the Ric, RM is the initials of the shop that sold him the Ric - they had their own import part number.

 

[JimmyM]

Really? REALLY?

 

[Remus_Redbone]

Though I already learned of Chris's passing, there was a report on NPR this morning.

The report was well done, and even mentioned Chris's Ric, but---------

the music played within the report---- Owner of the Lonely Heart. There's a Ric in that mix?

IMHO, Roundabout would have been a much better choice for the general public to remember Chris's signature sound.

You and I agree, but an NPR person or group producing that segment of NPR news you heard would find "Owner" as the only Yes #1 song. There's a better than average chance the producer(s) of the segment have never heard Roundabout, of if they have, didn't know what it was. Also likely that Roundabout pre-dates the birth of the segment producer(s).

I didn't hear the segment, but it sounds like from your description that NPR producers went to Wikipedia to prepare the segment....

 

[SanDiegoHarry]

Roundabout has a brilliant line by any standard. It's supportive and melodic altogether.
If you don't like the band's music or style there isn't much to dig, which is often an issue in dreaded "Jaco is overrated" threads.

I don't think Chris would have been as widely noticed had he not worked with a guy like Wakeman, who really understood how to work with a bassist - the line from Roundabout is a perfect example: Their's clav over the bass for most of the song, giving it that great sound - but then when the clav stops, the bass *really* pops, sounding gritty and huge.

@reddog

May I suggest you give a listen to:

"Yours Is No Disgrace"
"I've Seen All Good People"
"Long Distance Runaround"
"The Fish (Schindleria Praematurus)"
"Heart of the Sunrise"
"And You and I"
"Siberian Khatru"

I think these tunes would give you a good footing in early-mid Yes and in particular, because Bruford was the drummer, the interplay between the bass and drums is particularly good. I always liked Bruford's drumming more than his replacement, Alan White.

Good list of great tunes - particularly from a bassist's POV

 

[fretter]

I'm 44 and listen to NPR from time to time. Owner of a Lonely Heart came out when I was a teenager. Boomers who would recognize Roundabout from when it first came out are in their 60s now (I recognize it too, but because after getting into 90125 went down to the record store and explored Yes' classic albums, as did many people my age). What "old folks who listen to NPR" are you talking about? We ARE those old folks.

Aren't the 80s "back"? So, 90125 would appeal to the young folks. You know, those rebels in their 20s.

 

[Sav'nBass]

The old folks that listen to NPR would say "Yes?, never heard of them." The Boomers would recognize the opening harmonics to Roundabout and
the segment talked about his Ric.
Thanks for the correction on Owner-- my old memories go back to Fragile.......
End of my rant.

This made me laugh... Look I remember when the Nightbird used to run Yes all the time along with The Who, ELP and any number of great bands from back in the day and the simulcast was a new thing. It made me laugh because... The old folks who listen to NPR are the boomers... Lol

 

[JollySpudd]

I think it's exaggerated to say 90125 was all written and done before Anderson rejoined. Like I said (post #16), it was supposed to be a new project with Rabin as front man, and they started that way.

Maybe. But that's not what I understood from reading a mag article back at the time. -- I just did a little wiki research to cross-check my feebler memory - To paraphrase the wiki page on "Owner of a Lonely Heart", Trevor Ravin had 4 track demo'd - and very well - Owner, amongst others used on the album - in 1980 - 2 years before joining Yes. His demo material was later released on his album "90214" in 2003.

Trevor Rabin clears the air on Yes' 'Owner of a Lonely Heart': 'I've bitten my lip for a long time' | Something Else!

this link is worth the read and listen (to the youtube video of the original 1980 demo)



Rabin had been shopping his own music, some of which became 90125, for some time prior to getting involved with the YES camp. -- This is why I view the album as "kinda sorta" YES.

At the time he joined, they were in need of a jolt in the current 80s music scene, considering where the mainstream had gone, leaving many '70s acts in conflict as seeming retro dinosaurs. The new "digital" technology (for better and worse) was changing the way music sounded and was performed, recorded and "assembled" (sequencers, midi, digital synthesis and sampling, electronic drums, synth bass, etc.). Rabin was a little younger and a little more current and mod, plus he had a very marketable "look".

My issue, sort of, is that, he was the new guy, a relative unknown, who walked in off Music Biz St. and affected so much power and influence in a beloved and stalwart band of already very creative and experienced people. -- And indeed, Rabin was brought in as a new front guy (apparently not for YES, but a new offshoot called Cinema), as Jon Anderson had been exploring and executing solo work, alone and in tandem with Vangelis. While Jon wasn't (to my understanding) "out' of YES, (I stand corrected and memory refreshed on this per the Drama period - Thanks, Moody )Rabin coming in with so much of his music and ideological ways, quite different from the ethereal musings of Anderson, as well as Rabin handling all the lead vocals on his own pre-written songs, it very much seemed like an honorary position - since it was YES - to give Jon some leeway for additional ideas after the fact.

Check out the youtube video of the "Owner of" demo, even Squire's bass lines came from it. YES typically created material from Anderson, Howe and Squire. This was Rabin, almost seemingly letting those guys have some freedom on his material in context of them becoming his back up band.

I know that's over-stated and an exaggeration - sort of - but in some 90125 instances, it's not that far from true. As a pre-80s YES fan, it kinda was ahead scratcher to me. Yet, all of this said - IT'S STILL GOOD MUSIC well written, well arranged and well played - and heck, who among us wouldn't have loved to hear YES give their treatment to a song that we wrote?

In the end, it was a mutually beneficial thing for both Rabin and YES across the board.

 

[ReneB]

Nightbird as in Allison Steele on WNEW? Wow, talk about a blast from the past. I grew up listening to WNEW and WLIR for rock music. And I do remember when they played new albums one side at a time!

As for NPR, I am around college students, and some of them -- the ones that might read newspapers (online, usually) and know a bit about current events -- listen to NPR. So, as far as I know, both young and older folks listen, but I bet they have somethings in common that distinguish them from the typical mainstream media consumer who may not even know that NPR exists.

 

[alaskaleftybass]

 

[ReneB]

No offense intended at all, but as a listener to Yes from their origins (when the music came out), I think their peak -- according to my tastes -- was the Close to the Edge/Fragile era. I like "Topographic" & "Relayer", but not as much as the two previous albums. I also dig Yessongs a lot. I have also seen them live from the early 1970s to the mid 1980s and, probably because I've been a drummer since I was a teen, always thought Yes sounded best recorded or live with Bruford on the kit.

I agree with SanDiegoHarry about Wakeman; his playing was really key to Yes's sound during the same period and the interplay between Wakeman, Bruford, and Squire lays down some pretty interesting layers for Howe and Anderson to play over.

I really tried to like "90125" and "Tormato" more than I do, but I feel that during that period, "Going for the One" was a better album, yet it wasn't something I enjoy as much as the Close to the Edge stuff.

 

[moody]

My issue, sort of, is that, he was the new guy, a relative unknown, who walked in off Music Biz St. and affected so much power and influence in a beloved and stalwart band of already very creative and experienced people. -- And indeed, Rabin was brought in as a new front guy (apparently not for YES, but a new offshoot called Cinema), as Jon Anderson had been exploring and executing solo work, alone and in tandem with Vangelis. While Jon wasn't (to my understanding) "out' of YES, Rabin coming in with so much of his music and ideological ways, quite different from the ethereal musings of Anderson, as well as Rabin handling all the lead vocals on his own pre-written songs, it very much seemed like an honorary position - since it was YES - to give Jon some leeway for additional ideas after the fact.

Jon wasn't in yes at all before 90125. Drama was released and toured with Trevor Horn on vocals. A good portion of Drama is original Horn/Downe compositions given the Yes Treatment. In that respect there is a good deal of similarity between between the creation of Drama and 90125

 

[stacker]

He used the Jazz bass with the Mutron-III on Ritual. OoaLH was the Electra bass with the octave module.

Bassically, Michael

I have no proof to counter your statement but, with all due respect, where did you get your info from? I'm curious.

 

[stacker]

It is the Ric, RM is the initials of the shop that sold him the Ric - they had their own import part number.

Yeh, as Moody says, the RM stood for Rose Morris, the UK's RIC importer back then. The RM 1999 was the export-only version of the 4001 available back then. The main (and maybe only) differences were dot neck (instead of sharkfins), no binding and a mono output. RIC made a 'Japan only' reissue of the RM 1999 a few years ago. The price was ridic, IMO.

 

[cnltb]

Though I already learned of Chris's passing, there was a report on NPR this morning.

The report was well done, and even mentioned Chris's Ric, but---------

the music played within the report---- Owner of the Lonely Heart. There's a Ric in that mix?

IMHO, Roundabout would have been a much better choice for the general public to remember Chris's signature sound.

Ok.