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Chuck Israels signature mic

Discussion in 'Amps, Mics & Pickups [DB]' started by bassmanbrent, Jun 5, 2017.


  1. JeffKissell

    JeffKissell Supporting Member

    Nov 21, 2004
    Soquel, CA
    I can see it just fine on a mac in Cali....

    (not that I condone such things)
     
    Povl Carstensen likes this.
  2. Ric Vice

    Ric Vice Supporting Member

    Jul 2, 2005
    Olivette, Missouri
    Rick,
    Once agian, I'm impressed. It seems to be cutting through the mix with all that lovely ambient
    crowd noise, and what sounded like someone else playing drums off camera :)
    You're a real trooper my friend. Thanks agian.

    Ric
     
  3. rickwolff

    rickwolff SOLD For Sale: Headway EDB-2 HE $260 Supporting Member

    Thanks, Ric.

    To be honest, I'm probably well out of my depth with what I'm trying to do here, recording-wise.

    What I can say is that the sound I get from the 'Chuck' through my Genzler AA Golihur Series Amp is the most natural, acoustic sound I have ever been able to get.

    I suspect there are practical limitations in terms of how much volume and separation I can get with the mic alone but I have the KNA piezo on the bass for backup, and thankfully, most of my gigs are smaller ensembles - duos or trios - at moderate volumes and it looks like I can mic at least those gigs very successfully with the 'Chuck'.

    After this weekends gigs I will be sending it down to you and am anxious to get your take on things.
     
  4. Ric Vice

    Ric Vice Supporting Member

    Jul 2, 2005
    Olivette, Missouri
    Rick,
    My take is that few if any of us
    are audio engineers. Most of us are “out of our depth” when it comes to these high end microphones. Frankly, I’ve had lots more experience with pickups, but I have had a few, because the AMT, DPA 4099B, and Remic Microphones, sound more akin to what a double bass should sound like. What I will say is that most of the gigs I play with DB are with the Ehrlund EAP. Sometimes you just go with the simplest solutions that are dependable and practical. :) :D :laugh: ;)
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2018
    rickwolff likes this.
  5. s0707

    s0707

    Jun 17, 2015
    Yes. On my Win7 PC and Internet Explorer it says "to use Docs offline upgrade to Chrome". I hit "No Thanks" and the Playback button, then the twirling wait thing keeps going on and on. How's that for Google trying to force Chrome on us...
     
  6. wathaet

    wathaet

    May 27, 2007
    These things are somewhat dependent on the bass and the room IME. I use a large old English bass with passione and play arco in very reverberant room. Have not really had issues with feedback, so I have so far not needed the cardioid remic, only the omni. Cardioid is so far just a backup.

    Tell you what, when I bring my main bass home from work for the summer I will use the Izotope RX EQ match and make a compensationcurve for matching the profile of the remic omni. If I have a Felix by then, I will make a "neutral preset" for the cardioid remic on my bass and let you know.
     
  7. rickwolff

    rickwolff SOLD For Sale: Headway EDB-2 HE $260 Supporting Member

    Chuck Israels Signature Mic...How Much 'Bleed'

    A big part of the design mandate for this mic was to minimize 'Bleed'. Being an 'air mic' and not a contact mic or a piezo I expect a total absence of bleed is impossible. So in the real world, the goal is to minimize it to the point where you can have meaningful control (level and EQ) of a separate Bass Track without involving much sound from the other instruments.

    Here are two audio clips I made on a gig the other night. One is the 'Chuck', and the other is the ATM350 Cardioid Mic which is placed right next to the Chuck, so the difference in bleed is not due to placement.

    I also included clips of 'Pennies From Heaven' which I recorded on another gig. One clip is the bass track alone (which has a fair amount of cymbal 'bleed' which I could further minimize by cutting the high frequencies which the bass doesn't need anyway). The other clip is the ensemble with all 4 inputs.
     

    Attached Files:

  8. wathaet

    wathaet

    May 27, 2007
    A figure 8 mic is a figure 8, I do not understand how the "mandate" can do anything about this short of making it a Hyper which is no longer a fig 8.

    As for placement comparisom, you should not place a cardioid like you would a figure eight if you are comparing bleed. Their optimal isolation is 90 degrees different. Fig 8 isolates sides, cardioid from the back and much less so from the sides. Hypers like MK41 isolate best at 110 ish degrees.
     
  9. Ric Vice

    Ric Vice Supporting Member

    Jul 2, 2005
    Olivette, Missouri
    That would be great, what I'd love, is a baseline setting that eliminates or greatly supresses that lo frequency bump from the Remic Green, without puting a frequency "hole" in Green's frequency response.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2018
    wathaet likes this.
  10. Ric Vice

    Ric Vice Supporting Member

    Jul 2, 2005
    Olivette, Missouri
    Listening to the Sweet and Lovely clips, I notice that the bass really stands out, versus the Piano, Drum, and Crowd bleed, the bass has a lot more character than it does with the AMT. I don't think it's possible to eliminate bleed, but the Xlson is able to relegate it into the background,

    while you bass stays in the foreground. Rick, can you remember at all what the volume setting at the mixer was for the Xlson?

    Ric
     
  11. Also, the Chuck has a very full sound while the AMT seems to have a low-mid "hump".
     
    Ric Vice likes this.
  12. rickwolff

    rickwolff SOLD For Sale: Headway EDB-2 HE $260 Supporting Member

    Ric, the volume was set fairly high for the room, but what you hear on the recording is the pre-EQ DI from the 'Genzlihur'. That makes recording a good bass track on the gig really easy.

    Don't know if that answers your question.
     
  13. Ric Vice

    Ric Vice Supporting Member

    Jul 2, 2005
    Olivette, Missouri
    IME this tends can be a issue with the small footprint condenser mic’s. The DPA 4099B’s shotgun design dosen’t seem to have those issues.

    Ric
     
  14. basster

    basster

    Aug 14, 2003
    The main problem miking an upright in live situations is the fact that the bass by itself reflects everything. It´s some kind of a big mirror, you can do nothing against that with no air mic available on this planet. What you hear close to the bass top is what it is reflecting, and the reflected stuff goes straight into your bass microfone. You have with different types of mics less or more bleed, but you´ll never have no bleed on a stage with other instruments and a less or more loud audience. There are some ways to avoid these reflections: isolating the instrument, that´s what we do in recording situations with these walls and boxes and different rooms and so on and sometimes on stage with a plexiglass shield. Isolating the mic is another possibility, that´s what the ischell - type mics are doing, and mounting the mic inside the bass which is a bad idea because the frequency response in the box is totally chaotic. String instruments in general don´t have a focused sound source as a trumpet ore something like that, and they don´t have a high sound pressure level. I love playing with a mic and it works best in situations which could be served without any amplification, but the mic gives you a little bit support and a better control and maybe it allows you to play one hour more a night.
     
    flatback likes this.
  15. Ric Vice

    Ric Vice Supporting Member

    Jul 2, 2005
    Olivette, Missouri
    That’s why the Ampeg pickup definitely had some issues. :thumbsup: My personal experience has allowed me to play “drummerless” gigs with no guitars, using the DPA 4099B alone provided the monitor channels had separate sends. The Remic Green FOH into the mains works great, provided the sound person or persons know what their doing. There will be bleed of course.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018
  16. Jim Dedrick

    Jim Dedrick Jim Dedrick Gold Supporting Member

    Nov 8, 2016
    Port Deposit, MD
    I’m having problems playing this file and all the audio files you put in this thread so far. I think it is an issue with apple products and flash.
     
  17. Ric Vice

    Ric Vice Supporting Member

    Jul 2, 2005
    Olivette, Missouri
    ;)
    Jim,
    We started a second thread where
    I posted additional audio files that at least to my knowledge, no one had issues with. Rick Wolf’s files play on my iMac, but not on my iPhone, so it may be the Apple and Flash thing, hard to say. ;) All the files are MP3’s

    Ric Vice
     
  18. Maple

    Maple Supporting Member

    Feb 25, 2016
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Apple stopped supporting flash on its mobile platform a long time ago for safety reasons - instead, they have moved towards JavaScript and html5.
     
  19. Ric Vice

    Ric Vice Supporting Member

    Jul 2, 2005
    Olivette, Missouri
    Question, does it require Flash to play a MP3 on a iPhone or iPad? Because I can't play my own recordings from the Xlson, Remic Red Green, and Remic Red thread. On my iPhone.
     
  20. Maple

    Maple Supporting Member

    Feb 25, 2016
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Im no expert in web code but I would guess this forum’s audio player uses flash.
     
  21. Primary

    Primary TB Assistant

    Here are some related products that TB members are talking about. Clicking on a product will take you to TB’s partner, Primary, where you can find links to TB discussions about these products.

     
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