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Church Rig

#21
Great thread. It's really interesting to see all the different methodologies at work by the Bottom-dwelling brethren.

Worship team is mic'd piano, keyboard through PA (no keyboard stage amp), 1 electric & 1-2 acoustic guitars all with amps, saxophone, trumpet, and of course bass guitar.

I use a Peavey Deltabass head and BVX BW 115 cab. At 160 watts, stage volume is more than plenty, but house volume is just barely adequate.

Soundguys have yet to figure out how to effectively use the DI out from the Deltabass head.

The PA has a monstrous Yorkville 700 watt sub but it's crossed over too high making it sound boomy. Combined with our truly mediocre treble / mid speakers that sound honky, nasal, muffled and nasty, it's a challenge to get a clean-sounding mix.

There is barely any bass coming out of the house system or monitors despite the fact that the soundguy says my DI is too loud. He's got the fader pegged right down. I'll try my Sans Amp Bass Driver DI and see if they can work with that.

I'm all for using a big rig on stage, because you and the drummer "got to get the groove on" and that's hard to do at polite monitor levels (especially with acoustic drums and an enthusiastic drummer). You need some decent level so that you can "lock-in" and lead the other instruments into the pocket. I play drums every 4th week so I have a good idea on the drumming thing.

The auditorium is not that big (280 people, soon to be expanded to 400+) but the stage is small enough that we can all basically hear one another.

I'm in agreement with some of the previous comments regarding the level of knowledge and training some soundguys have.

They just don't seem to be able to get a basic house mix right, never mind the stage monitors. Every week we seem to have a different sound. We should probably have an in-depth soundcheck one practice and get all the levels dialed in.

It's definitely a challenge, but we're all learning together. The main thing is that the congregation really enjoys the music, and there's a great attitude among the worship team members, no egos, no prima-donnas. To me that's worth a lot more in the long run.

As for the bass amp question. It's always been the same, even in a church setting. Go big or go home.
 
#22
The PA salesman at our church definitely left with a smile on his face when they got the system we use now - 3200 Watts, 2 - horn+15 2-way speakers, 16 channel board, feedback locator, eq, + snake. Since we play in a hall the size of a basketball court, and there's never more than 100 people, I'd say we've got plenty of headroom.

I use the 50 Watt 2-15 rig pictured below, and we've got one other guitarist who uses about a 20 Watt amp or runs acoustic through the PA, and a keyboardist who runs through the PA. We've usually got about 6 singers. We're usually way too loud, too. :D

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Chris
 
#23
Those PA salesman...I think he got us good too. The configuration of the room and speakers prevents the system from sounding as good as it should. To prevent the stationary mikes and the minister's lavalier from feeding back, the system EQ is wacked. It sounds good for keys, vocs, drums, and acoustic guitars; but me and the electric guitar guy have a tough time getting anything approaching a good tone.

Keep 'em coming.
 
#24
I'm gassin, gotta vent! Right now I'm using a Peavey Basic 112 which is barely adequate for our chruch. When the drummer shows up (not very often) I turn up all the way and "practice" :p

If I'm able to put the money together in the next few weeks I'll be rollin' an Ampeg 1540 with a SVT Pro III in so the congregation will "feel" the presence of the Lord! OK, I'm done, can't wait......:D
 
#25
Since our stage is "small", at least in this one side of the stage we play in. I play through the direct out of my BMax rig.

Unfortunately, since we have a Chinese congregation in the mornings, they don't like bass that much (we have a conservative crowd), so I usually get turned down :(

But if I play at Youth Group or other "Youth" events, I get turned up :)

We have monitors running, but for some reason I can never hear myself through the monitors no matter how much I get turned up, but I'm used to playing without them anyway, so its no big deal. I've gotten pretty good playing by ear.

I play through the Bose PA, it's not the "best", but it certainly does the trick.

Our sancutary can hold about 400-500 people.

And, we use acoustic drums, although those are rarely mic'ed unless we're doing a recording. It's placed off stage to the left so the soundman doesn't go crazy trying to make everything else on stage louder then the drums.

Nice to hear how others are serving the Lord..

--Jonathan
 
#26
I play through an SWR Basic Black combo. I don't go through the PA. The platform puts me at ear level with the audience, and it is made of wood. Very boomy, if I turn up too loud.

We have mic'd piano, organ, electronic keyboard(through the PA) and acoustic drums.

Our auditorium seats about 200, and is shaped kind of strange. Like a rectangle on the side with the platform, but the back is shaped like half a diamond, or a wedge.

I have no problems being heard. I will eventually replace the amp with something that sounds better with a fretless. It is kind of lacking in mids.

I need to borrow a wireless so I can see what the overall balance sounds like. We have no soundperson or booth, our female backup vocalist runs sound from the platform, and has no experience. She basically turns vocal mics up or down, and tries to keep feedback in check. That is it.

For those interested, 16 channel Peavey mixer, Yamaha 2000 watt amp for mains, Crate 400 watt amp for monitors, mains are 2 EV Eliminator 1x15+horn, monitors are 2 Yamaha wedges, 2 Peavey 1x10+horn, and the piano uses a Peavey keyboard amp for a monitor.
 
#27
I am not a fan of the in ear system but it did solve the stage volume issues that we were having. We have a very large stage but we also have about fifty people on it during worship including two keyboards, a three or four piece horn section, electric drums ,percussion, bass and guitar (if we are lucky) as well as four singers, a leader and an entire choir. We have an excellent sound system but our soundman does not properly EQ bass unless I send the leader out into the room during rehearsal to check. I usually have him turn down the lows and boost the low mids and highs. Our sanctuary sits about 2500 and I was heard everywhere with a very mediocre Carvin 110 watt combo.
 
#29
Ashdown ABM 500 with 1 or 2 (depending on the songs and whether or not we hav acoustic or electronic drums) Aguilar 1x12. Run the Ashdown into the board from the direct out. I use the cabs for on stage monitors. Bass is fed to the house speakers but not the monitors. We're blessed with a bonafide sound guy who know's his stuff! We get monitor mixes that work, and house mixes that sound great. Normal band is two acoustic guitars fed straight to the board, drums (either electric or acoustic, if acoustic, miced), bass, and 4 or 5 vocalists. Now that we have a good guy on the board, everything is keen. Before, we had lot's of trouble with the house and with the monitor mixes.

olie
 
#30
I play in 2 churches, one seats 200 people, the other 400, ceilings are very high.
The smaller one is very resonant (is this the right word?), it has stone floor and plain concrete walls and ceiling, the larger one sounds much better, almost like in a living room.

In both cases I use 50W/112 or 100W/112 (GK 150 MB) without PA support. We don't play loud and usually we don't have drums. If we have drums they are not mic'd, all the other instruments run through a 2x150W PA. Even my smaller amp is always more than enough.

Matthias
 
#31
Originally posted by Joe Smithberger
(...)
Joker, I am with you on the 10's idea and projecting from your rig. I am also open to suggestions on how to set up my 210 to get the job done. I am now running with the cab vertically on a furniture dolly with my little rack sitting next to it. Do you think a speaker stand would get me there? Or some kind of kickback stand? Gramma pad?

My RBI has a pretty good range of sounds. I also have a Sansamp ADI with a parametric mid control. Do you think I should try to notch out the boom with the parametric or just run an overall thinner sound? Any EQ suggestions with my gear or something else would be appreciated as well.

Someone also suggested using a DI for articulation. Would you suggest running a thinner sound at a low level out to the mains?

I am clueless about compression, do you think that a little compression would allow me to keep the sound fullwithout getting boomy?

Thanks, I can't believe so many replied over night. It's nice to see so many church players on the board.
Click to expand...

Joe, seems like you're on the right path to getting a good sound for your situation. lots of great thoughts on your part.

notching out any boom with the parametric is a great way to clear up your tone, and especially relieve the migrains for your bandmates. that's why i loved my DB680, and especially my Acoustic Image Clarus so much. you dont necessarily wanna make your tone any thinner, or you'll lose punch and booty-movability (hehe, made that up... ;)), you're just trying to cut down the boom, like you said.

and, keep in mind any time you set your amp off the ground you're gonna lose low end. i kinda dont like it, but if that's the only way to hear yourself, and then by all means. might actually cut down on the boominess.

Originally posted by Joe Smithberger
(...)the system EQ is wacked. It sounds good for keys, vocs, drums, and acoustic guitars; but me and the electric guitar guy have a tough time getting anything approaching a good tone.

Keep 'em coming.
Click to expand...

yea, seems like church music is still very much low key'ed for those instruments, leaving the more "heavier" sonic stuff in the dust, but all the more we need to work at getting a great sound that's acceptable to us and the audience.

and nice pic of your santuary, Mcrelly!

like the two tone chairs. :cool:

and the setup is very very similar to my church's evening service worship. is a wider room, with the band all scrunched in the corner. makes for a loud stage for us, cause we're sooo packed in, but we manage with some plexi glass for the drummer, and "in ears" for the singers.
 
#32
Originally posted by jokerjkny
yea, seems like church music is still very much low key'ed for those instruments, leaving the more "heavier" sonic stuff in the dust, but all the more we need to work at getting a great sound that's acceptable to us and the audience.

and nice pic of your santuary, Mcrelly!

like the two tone chairs. :cool:

and the setup is very very similar to my church's evening service worship. is a wider room, with the band all scrunched in the corner. makes for a loud stage for us, cause we're sooo packed in, but we manage with some plexi glass for the drummer, and "in ears" for the singers.
Click to expand...

ya, when I got my first aguilar GS-112 It sounded HUGE (in the corner near the drums) I have one leader I play with who really like a big E note on some dramatic songs. I will be playing with a leader who is a bass volume fiend! her husband says "ya, the bass can't be loud enough for her!"

the pic is of our churches "super church" for children, but this room, which we call "firehouse" holy spirit etc... is decorated in a firestation theme. just above the screen we have a neon sign that says "engine no. 45" BUT the neon signs ARE NOT allowed to be on because of buzzing in pickups and audio system.

our main church sanctuary holds 3300 people and has 54,000 watts of amps!!! 10,000 on subs!, but they've been wanting to upgrade speakers and power I think. I can't remember if we have 4 or 8 12" subs underneeth the edge of the stage. Until they upgraded the quality of the house system speakers I didn't like to be on the main floor due to high spl's on those wild nights. its better now because with higher quality speakers they don't need quite as much spl to get good bass in the room.

Our website

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I don't want to seem like bragging, but even I still sometimes think its overkill on sound, but they rock out sometimes. we've even hosted a few concerts for christian bands like Rebecca st. james, carmen, and sonic flood.
 
#34
I have found a pretty good marriage between the sound guy and musicians at my church. We are a fairly large congregation with 4 rotations of praise teams, so that we each play at least once a month (which is good considering we have 4 services each weekend).

The stage is large (roughly 3/4 the size of a basketball court), elevated, carpeted with acoustic treatment lining the back walls. The sanctuary seats 500 or so and is a "multipurpose room" with high ceilings and the sound booth in the rear left (not ideal for sound).

To make everyone happy, we vary the stage volume to match the praise team each week. For example, last weekend we had a kids choir on stage and used Roland V drums, grand piano, guitar direct from the preamp and my bass rig. Our normal services have no choir and a small group of singers (3-4 people and a worship leader), so we bring out the acoustic drums and use a sheild for the really heavy-handed drummers. My bass rig has been an Aguilar DB-750 (the sound guy LOVES my tone out of the Jensen DI) and an Avatar B212 cabinet. I let the sound guy help me with my stage level, but usually this isn't an issue. The Avatar has a far throw, but I primarily use the cab for stage volume. All of the guitar players long for more volume, but I have found that the mix of direct to board and cab for stage volume works great.

I should mention that the church sound guy is a pro (and an understanding drummer) and that the sound system has ample mixes each seperated for rhythm section, piano, singers, and melody players (acoustic and electric guitar, keys and horn players, etc.) so with a slight compromise we are all happy and able to focus on more important things.;)
 
#36
I play bass in my church and I am also a part of the sound team. In fact I'm sort of the instructor there.

On stage I use my Peavey Firebass 700 with a Peavey 410 4 ohm cabinet. It will shake the walls. It makes you have to play. Somethings I catch my pastor pretending to be playing his air bass. I run it through the house pa and I use the 410 cabinet for stage volume and I have a monitor near me that allows me to hear whats going on since we are a directly behind the house speakers on stage. The choir digs it so far and I want to mention that I usually play either one of my two RB5's right now.
 
#37
this is a great thread....

I play in a hall every sunday that holds about 500 people and I use my Carvin R600 head going into a 2x10. I direct box it out to the PA and it works great for me. I barely have to turn it up. I think I use it on "2".

Keep rockin' faces off for him boys...
 
#38
I play in a reasonably small chapel, with a turnout of 75 or so on Sat nights, and 175-250 on Sundays. Instrumentation varies wildly, but it's usually me, piano, flute (wife), a coupla acoustic geetars, and 8-12 singers. Usually no drums. A WT-400 and GS112 are plenty loud enough, and I've used just those when playing for 400-500 in one of the clubs on base, and with the high school jazz band (20-piece brass with drums). I add the other cab if we play outside, although even that is overkill. The piano and singers are usually the only thing in the PA. No sound guy. It's pretty easy. :)

Of course, a friend of mine will lug a 750 watt head and an 8x10 up a flight of stairs to play for 15 people in a 20' x 20' bar downtown...:rolleyes:
 
#39
I play for my churchs' evening service. The auditorium seats about 1000, But it's only about half full for the evening. I also play for the teens on Tuesday nights.

We have a Peavey BAM 2X10 that we use as an on stage monitor, and send the signial direct to the soundboard. I have a couple presets I use, and our other bassist have their own.

We have acoustic drums that are surrounded by plexyglass and acoustic panels.

Our band consists of Drums, Bass, Keyboards, Electric Guitar, Electric/Acoustic Guitar (Parker Fly), and Violin. 2 of the musicians sing, and we have 2 other singers.

here's a link to our website Link Removed The songs that are playing in the background are from our morining band, that's not me playing bass.
 
#40
Background:
Our church seats about 1,000 people. In addition to drums & bass, we have keyboards, 1 to 2 guitarists & from 2 to 4 horns players on a given Sunday. For vocalists, we have 4 to 5 on the front line and about 10 in the ensemble.

Sound:
We use an excellent EAW speaker system for mains, subs under that stage & monitors. All is power by way to many Crown amps. Each musician has their own monitor & monitor control for adjusting the mix and volume of any musician or vocalist. In other words, we have total control of what we hear by adjusting our own mix.

Bass:
I run straight into a Sans Amp Bass Driver DI because they do not allow any amps or cabs on stage. However, the sound is so good that it’s a non-issue. We use to have a Countryman which also an excellent DI.

Future:
When I have time (yeah right), I’ll custom build a wedge monitor version of our AccuGroove Tri 112 cabinet for my monitor. Can you say crystal clear & tons-o-booty?

New:
I just picked up a Barker Vertical Bass (EUB) that I’ll be incorporating into the sets. It plays like butter, sounds phenomenal & looks killer. Barker basses!

Humbly,
Mark
 

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