Circle K strings...

[ixlramp]

Just wanted to say that although fifths sets have not yet appeared at the CKS site (they only appear in the menu), the guys at CKS have figured out balanced fifths sets and can put a set together for anyone who needs it.

That's a great tuning! The range of an 8 string but lighter, cheaper, more comfortable to play. I had my 35" 6 string tuned to that for a few years, it was a lot of fun, chords across the top 4 strings were beautiful. I used a slightly unbalanced mixed-brand set .145 .095 .060 .035 .022w .013p.

EDIT this had tension falling from low to high, light to ultra light, but levelling out for the bottom 2.
Note method of construction using the '3:2 gauge ratio for a balanced fifth' rough rule but choosing a top-light pair each time:
22 x 3/2 = 33 choose 35
60 x 3/2 = 90 choose 95
95 x 3/2 = 142.5 choose 145

60 x 2/3 = 40 choose 35

Jumping from wound to plain needs a larger gauge ratio due to density and flexibility change.

 

[Ben Lesser]

Yeah, exactly. I'm really looking forward to it. The gauges I chose were all Skip's recommendation.

 

[FunkMetalBass]

Just wanted to say that although fifths sets have not yet appeared at the CKS site (they only appear in the menu), the guys at CKS have figured out balanced fifths sets and can put a set together for anyone who needs it.

That's a great tuning! The range of an 8 string but lighter, cheaper, more comfortable to play. I had my 35" 6 string tuned to that for a few years, it was a lot of fun, chords across the top 4 strings were beautiful. I used a slightly unbalanced mixed-brand set .145 .095 .060 .035 .022w .013p.

What do you have against us 8-stringers?

 

[SoVeryTired]

I'm intrigued by the idea of the balanced tension sets. I play a 35" 5er in standard tuning and was wondering if I could really get all the strings feeling similar in tension? The B is pretty clear but noticeably looser than the other strings.

Couple of questions for those that know...

What gauge would I need to go for to get a feel similar to the D'Addario XL150-SLs (I think that's what's installed - the tension is quoted as 48.5 on the G and 55.7 on the D, but I don't know how that might be affected by scale length)?

Does the balanced tension produce a similar effect to multi-scale basses e.g. Dingwall? I can see that they are two approaches to the same challenge of even tension across the strings.

(Apologies if these are stupid questions - I'm not a regular string buyer!)

 

[Derek Kiernan]

Balanced tension would have a more even effect across the strings than the Dingwall fan independently. The string with the highest tension in most sets is the D. If you increase the scale length from the G string, there's no way they're going to balance perfectly, given how much more tension is already on the D. Also, the discrepancy between the D and the E string in most sets is pretty incredible. The Circle K traditional sets are actually made to balance with the fan. You can try making your own set with D'addarios by using their tension charts, which they graciously provide given many manufacturers don't, but it's unlikely even with balanced tension that they'll achieve the consistency in feel that the Circle K's have. The tension will be different with a 35" vs 34" scale, but the relation between the tensions with stay consistent.

 

[Kusabi]

I'm in the market for a new set of strings on my Ray34 and I would like to tune it to drop c (cgcf). At present I'm debating between three sets:

.118 .079 .059 .043 (~34lbs of tension)
.124 .082 .061 .045 (~37lbs)
.130 .086 .065 .047 (~40lbs)

I have TI jazz flats on two of my other basses and quite like the low tension of them. I'm leaning towards the first set but am unsure if it will be too loose. Obviously, it all comes down to personal preference but does anyone have any experience with any of these sets compared to TI tension?

Somewhat unrelated, but how is the life span on these strings?

 

[ixlramp]

TI jazz flats are very low tension, averaging at 34 pounds, so go for the .118 set.

 

[ixlramp]

What gauge would I need to go for to get a feel similar to the D'Addario XL150-SLs (I think that's what's installed - the tension is quoted as 48.5 on the G and 55.7 on the D, but I don't know how that might be affected by scale length)?

Does the balanced tension produce a similar effect to multi-scale basses e.g. Dingwall? I can see that they are two approaches to the same challenge of even tension across the strings.

You mean EXL170-5SL? [This invalid link has been removed]

It depends on which strings of your current set feel the right tension. You won't get a feel similar to the daddarios since they are unbalanced.

The SL set tensions are quoted for a 36" scale, the CKS tension chart is for a 34" scale. To compare sets you need to compare on the same scale, so use the tensions of the EXL170-5 set, which are quoted for 34" [This invalid link has been removed] and compare to the tensions on the CKS chart Link Removed, remembering that CKs apparently feel loose for their tension so it's best to choose the next heavier CKS set than the next lighter set.

You could alternatively add up the total tension of your set and the CKS sets to get the closest match, tension would then be redistributed from the stupid-tight high strings to where it's needed on the E and especially the B.

Fanned frets progressively increase the tension of the lower strings, so improve traditional sets, but since traditional sets are middle- and top-heavy, the middle-heaviness remains.

 

[SoVeryTired]

You mean EXL170-5SL? [This invalid link has been removed]

It depends on which strings of your current set feel the right tension. You won't get a feel similar to the daddarios since they are unbalanced.

The SL set tensions are quoted for a 36" scale, the CKS tension chart is for a 34" scale. To compare sets you need to compare on the same scale, so use the tensions of the EXL170-5 set, which are quoted for 34" [This invalid link has been removed] and compare to the tensions on the CKS chart Link Removed, remembering that CKs apparently feel loose for their tension so it's best to choose the next heavier CKS set than the next lighter set.

You could alternatively add up the total tension of your set and the CKS sets to get the closest match, tension would then be redistributed from the stupid-tight high strings to where it's needed on the E and especially the B.

Fanned frets progressively increase the tension of the lower strings, so improve traditional sets, but since traditional sets are middle- and top-heavy, the middle-heaviness remains.

Thanks! And sorry, I did mean the EXL170-5SL - slight co-ordination gap between brain and typing fingers! Yes, I shall compare the standard length D'Addarios against the Circle Ks for tension. I quite like the feel of the G so it might work from that, although I'd be interested to check the overall tension of CK sets versus D'Addario, which get really tight on the D. It'll be interesting to see whether I end up with the same answer. I shall report back!

 

[SoVeryTired]

Okay, the comparison...

D'Addario XL170-5
Gauges: .045-.065-.080-.100-.130
Tension on G: 42.8
Total tension of set: 207.1
Gap between highest and lowest tension strings: 16.8

Circle K balanced set 43-142
Gauges: .043-.059-.079-.106-.142
Tension on G: 42.1
Total tension of set: 214.8
Gap between highest and lowest tension strings: 1.7

Circle K balanced set 41-136
Gauges: .041-.057-.076-.102-.136
Tension on G: 38.5
Total tension of set: 198.8
Gap between highest and lowest tension strings: 1.9

It shows how unbalanced the D'Addario set is, and confirms my suspicion that a balanced set starting from a similarly-tensioned G would probably have a similar total tension, just distributed more evenly.

I think the 142 set would probably give me the most similar feel if the Circle Ks feel like lower tension but the 136 set could also be interesting to try. Food for thought when I've got the spare cash to buy and import a set!

 

[mmbongo]

I would go as big as possible, I tried the CK .142 balanced set on my 35" scale Lakland and they were very floppy, and had no snap or punch to the sound. I ended up..surprisingly..with Sadowsky Blue Label nickels, 45-130. Nice and snappy, very tight, and quite balanced.

 

[SoVeryTired]

I would go as big as possible, I tried the CK .142 balanced set on my 35" scale Lakland and they were very floppy, and had no snap or punch to the sound. I ended up..surprisingly..with Sadowsky Blue Label nickels, 45-130. Nice and snappy, very tight, and quite balanced.

Interesting - maybe the next size up is even a possibility, although I'm not sure about the idea of a .150 B! That would be a range of tension of 46.2-48.1 across the set, 234.1 in total.

What were you using before the CK on the Lakland?

In theory the CK balanced sets I've mentioned should give a tighter B and E than I'm used to with D'Addario - but that's just on paper.

(I'm not sure Sadwosky strings are available in the UK. Not that Circle K are either, but they seem the only way to try a tension-balanced set as it's not easy to buy a range of individual strings for a 35" over here.)

 

[SoVeryTired]

I take it back - I can get Sadowsky strings. Are they balanced in the same way as Circle K or just have a broadly balanced feel? I can't find any info on the string tension.

 

[ixlramp]

You can make a rough guess looking at the gauges and checking a tension chart.

(I'm not sure Sadwosky strings are available in the UK. Not that Circle K are either, but they seem the only way to try a tension-balanced set as it's not easy to buy a range of individual strings for a 35" over here.)

Yeah you can buy singles here in the UK, by mail order, forget your local guitar shop (i'm in the UK too and have been building balanced sets for years from various brands). In fact since you are experimenting i would encourage a cheaper local or European source first. See http://schneidermusik.de/shop1/advanced_search_result.php/categories_id/1000256/cPath/397_66_100_1000256/search_in_categories/1
Strings direct here in the UK are excellent for daddario, but i'm not sure if the 'super long scale' .145 is currently available, or if the 'long scale' .145 is long enough to fit a 35" (top load i hope), stuff to check. I've heard daddarios full range of single strings may be returning this year. i use the daddario prosteel .145 taperwounds and they are good, very flexible for their size, intonate well and a well designed tapered section, so little inharmonicity.

You can use the daddario tension chart for 'XL nickelplated roundwound, long scale' to design sets, and approximate other brands: http://www.daddario.com/upload/tension_chart_13934.pdf

I suggest .145 .105 .080 .060 .045. it's well balanced.

 

[SoVeryTired]

You can make a rough guess looking at the gauges and checking a tension chart.

Yeah you can buy singles here in the UK, by mail order, forget your local guitar shop (i'm in the UK too and have been building balanced sets for years from various brands). In fact since you are experimenting i would encourage a cheaper local or European source first. See http://schneidermusik.de/shop1/advanced_search_result.php/categories_id/1000256/cPath/397_66_100_1000256/search_in_categories/1
Strings direct here in the UK are excellent for daddario, but i'm not sure if the 'super long scale' .145 is currently available, or if the 'long scale' .145 is long enough to fit a 35" (top load i hope), stuff to check. I've heard daddarios full range of single strings may be returning this year. i use the daddario prosteel .145 taperwounds and they are good, very flexible for their size, intonate well and a well designed tapered section, so little inharmonicity.

You can use the daddario tension chart for 'XL nickelplated roundwound, long scale' to design sets, and approximate other brands: http://www.daddario.com/upload/tension_chart_13934.pdf

I suggest .145 .105 .080 .060 .045. it's well balanced.

Thanks, I'll check that link out. I've been using Strings Direct longer than I've been using the internet but it's difficult, as you said, to get singles in the super-long category. I'm assuming it's super longs on my (top-loading) bass as I've read lots of complaints from people who tried the regulars on their 35" basses and found they were too short.

 

[ixlramp]

Yeah it was 'super long' for 35" scale, however ...

Apparently daddario recently lengthened their 'long scale' strings a little (but not enough IMO) to improve the chances of them fitting a 35" scale. I think the ball to taper length may be 36.25" or something? (if so that's still borderline unusable) But then of course stringsdirect's stock may still be the old stuff.

Lets hope daddario's full range of singles returns soon, i need some Chromes singles ...

 

[Razman]

SoVeryTired,

Over the past few years I've been toying with strings, especially the last year and a half. For a long time I played my church's bass, a USA Cirrus (bubinga/walnut). When we couldn't get Peavey's strings any more, I switched to DR's, which always fit good (not the DRs as you've found out). I didn't mind the feel of raw stainless, and found that the bass liked DDT's the best.

A year and a half ago I picked up a Jackson C5A five string, and put D'Addario ProSteels on it. Although I liked DR's better, the thicker .135 B got me closer to the low action of the 35" scale Peavey. When I got my custom bass a year ago, I stayed with the ProSteels.

Having owned a Dingwall before I know what the balanced feel is like. I couldn't seem to figure out which balanced CK set I wanted, but heeded the advice of those here and got a heavier set - with a .150 B and a .112 E. I'm glad I did, as I can get the action down to a satisfactory level (just a hair over 2mm from the top of the 12th fret to the bottom of the string) with minimal buzz as I play with a pick and a heavy hand.

I just got a second, identical set as we will be playing out of town in less than two weeks. However, I may try the .142 set to see how the difference in tension affects the tone and sustain of my bass. I have developed carpal tunnel in my fretting hand and I don't think the increased string tension is helping it; perhaps the slightly lighter tension will help with that.

If I were you, I wouldn't go based upon the tension of your D string as it's pretty high. A .142 balanced set would probably have a similar feel to my .150 set; a .136 might be ideal, and that's what I would put on a Cirrus if I had a fiver.

Anyway, best wishes to your search, hope I've helped a little.

Raz

 

[mmbongo]

Interesting - maybe the next size up is even a possibility, although I'm not sure about the idea of a .150 B! That would be a range of tension of 46.2-48.1 across the set, 234.1 in total.

What were you using before the CK on the Lakland?

In theory the CK balanced sets I've mentioned should give a tighter B and E than I'm used to with D'Addario - but that's just on paper.

(I'm not sure Sadwosky strings are available in the UK. Not that Circle K are either, but they seem the only way to try a tension-balanced set as it's not easy to buy a range of individual strings for a 35" over here.)

I'm not sure if going up a size or two would have helped, I think it's just how the strings are made. Circle K's just didn't gel with my 5501.

Before that, I had various sets, but my favorite was (and really still is) DR Nickel LoRiders. The EADG strings are just heavenly perfection, but even the .130 B was just too low tension for me. The tighter Sadowsky B is just right, it sounds massive. While I prefer the Nickel LoRiders for the bottom 4, the Sadowskys are good enough as long as that B string sounds so good.

Ideally, I'd have Nickel LoRiders EAGD with the Sadowsky B, but Sadowsky does not sell singles. Plus they are silked while DR's are not, and I just can't mix silked with non-silked!

Barring that, I'd love to try the Sadowsky's in 45-100 with the .130 B, but they won't do a 45-100 set so I'm still string searching.

 

[tylerwylie]

I'm not sure if going up a size or two would have helped, I think it's just how the strings are made. Circle K's just didn't gel with my 5501.

Before that, I had various sets, but my favorite was (and really still is) DR Nickel LoRiders. The EADG strings are just heavenly perfection, but even the .130 B was just too low tension for me. The tighter Sadowsky B is just right, it sounds massive. While I prefer the Nickel LoRiders for the bottom 4, the Sadowskys are good enough as long as that B string sounds so good.

Ideally, I'd have Nickel LoRiders EAGD with the Sadowsky B, but Sadowsky does not sell singles. Plus they are silked while DR's are not, and I just can't mix silked with non-silked!

Barring that, I'd love to try the Sadowsky's in 45-100 with the .130 B, but they won't do a 45-100 set so I'm still string searching.

.142 Circle K 6 string set sounded mediocre on my Bongo and was hard to get setup right.

On my Clement fretted 6 string, they are 2nd only to Fat Beams. Some of the best strings I've ever played on that bass.

Wonder how they'll work on my fretless Clement...hmm...

 

[SoVeryTired]

Thanks for all the advice guys. I tried putting together my own balanced sets, which is difficult trying to find a manufacturer who makes strings long enough and a thick enough B. I could make up a balanced GHS set from .136 for £34 delivered but thought that might be too floppy (same for Ernie Ball at £43). The only way I could get ixlramp's suggested gauges (.145 B) was Warwick Black Label at just over £42 for the custom set.

I checked Circle K .142 set with all delivery charges and taxes and... just under £42! So I may as well try the CKs when I have the money.