CITES - What every bass player should know

[Basspolizei]

It basically looks like a silhouette, but it's glaringly apparent if you have a weapon.

Thank you man that was actually extremely educational.

 

[madbass6]

Thanks for sharing! Wow that must really suck to have you're pride and joy confiscated for god knows how long ! I guess i REALLY lucked out as I went every where with my custom 93 Modulus TBX 6 W/Brazilian COCOBOLO TOP!

 

[Jim Carr]

Concerning recent enforcement of the Lacey Act...

Federal Judge Sentences Lumber Liquidators to Probation, $13 Million in Fines for Smuggling Timber | Sierra Club

 

[Robroy]

Ivory and tortoise shell are also on the CITES list, although these materials are more commonly found on vintage acoustic instruments. Fretboard Journal did an article on CITES a few years ago and noted that an instrument made with any of the woods or materials listed will be confiscated as contraband, and the only recourse is if the owner can prove (for example) that the ivory is from fossil sources.

Someone needs ho hunt these animals to extinction and cut down every single one of those trees. After all, you can't protect what doesn't exist. Problem solved.

 

[Robroy]

What one has to understand that using an endangered species stance is how they get you to go along with the scam. The EPA was just another one of those scams. This was done so land in conus could be sold off by government. So note this isn't the first time the environment was used as an excuse to usher in another completely unrelated agenda.

They did this with the Bundy Ranch in Nevada. A judge put out some "edict" that the tortoise in the area was on the endangered list. This then was used as the reason to kick the Bundy's off their land which they've been on for 100 years or so. So that Senator Harry Reid could make a wind farm deal with China on said land. Come to find out, the same government employees were busy killing cows AND TORTOISES in the area. So much for saving Cecil the turtle.

Another issue is the episode in Burns Oregon where the Hammond family has been on land dating back a fer piece. But since the land is loaded with minerals such as uranium, the gov't through vested interested individuals are making it extremely difficult for the Hammonds. One man has been killed already, LaVoy Finicum was shot to death in a dangerous crossfire by "agents." Why? Because someone wants the land to sell uranium to China.

Let's venture further down south to California where a drought ensued because a judge, again, made an edict that some species of smelt was endangered, so the water that would've fed the farms there was diverted to the ocean "for the smelt." Farmers in the area went bankrupt. Although you'll hear arguments on both sides saying it's not the smelt issue but that water is getting scarce (angels playing haarps?) but somewhere therein lies the rub.

Endangered species, the same baloney Gore used with the Polar Bears to sell his inconvenient lie about global warming.

Take a step back and realize that Agenda 21 under which CITES is part, will set up "carbon sinks" vast areas of land to where it is called a device to clean up carbon from the air with tree growth. But this "carbon sink" is nothing more than a ruse to keep people out of wilderness areas, stuffed into beehive city communities to be taxed and controlled. Meanwhile average people with not an iota of clout and power are not allowed to be out of the city, the 1% who orchestrated all this will be making backdoor deals on the land they've sequestered under the guise of saving the environment.

And you won't be part of those deals.

Any "saving of the environment" has less to do with the "endangered" item than it does with teaching you that you have no rights and is a misdirection to hide an agenda.

And those rights are dwindling pretty fast.

Think of Hunger Games but in reverse. The slaves live in the city, the royalty lives anywhere they want away from the city.

I would be more concerned now about the 100 mile border all around conus that is slowly becoming a "Constitution free-zone."

Know Your Rights: The Government's 100-Mile "Border" Zone - Map

Be forewarned. The true endangered species is you!

Look at the map below. Are you in a Constitution free-zone?

Marfa Texas appears to be within that zone.

You are touching on the reason I moved from Seattle to a 32 care farm in central KY after 46 years in the former.

I never owned guns. Now I have a bunch. Mostly for food and protection. Were in an open Cary state.

The interesting part is that I don't like guns. I do, however, understand the price to acquire and preserve personal freedom. And my goal will not be to slice off an ear.

 

[Robroy]

Animals go extinct every day. Lots of them - with and without man's help.

 

[scotch]

This thread is getting cuckoo! Lol

 

[Robroy]

This thread is getting cuckoo! Lol

Yeah. When they get interesting, people really get into it. I've noticed lately that about a third of the threads I become active in eventually get closed.

I think the point of this thread was that cuckoo things are going on.

 

[Basspolizei]

Someone needs ho hunt these animals to extinction and cut down every single one of those trees. After all, you can't protect what doesn't exist. Problem solved.

Boo-Yah !!!!!!!!

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

This thread is being permitted because it directly deals with basses and how traveling/shipping them is affected by these rulings. The further real political and/or psychotic conspiracy theory aspects aren't what this thread is for. If you absolutely cannot contain your political feelings on the matter, or feel you must scream them to the world or the illuminati might come to steal our protective tin foil hats, please feel free to address these concerns to your nearest brick wall, because they ain't gonna fly here. More than enough warnings have been given- it would be a shame to shut down a useful thread because some people can't control themselves, but it's what will happen if this continues.

 

[GregC]

I already told the mod CITES is political from the get go. So what changed?

And when you choose to follow a rule instead of heed a warning, then go ahead and meet that Mack truck head-on because you would rather be politically correct than safe and not sorry.

Did you get this far along in life without realizing that?

Yeah the way you try and separate "political" from compliance is part of the problem. You think it's going to get better each time you reconfigure your bass-wood in your gig bag so you can get around the border guard? That's like denying the boa constrictor wouldn't think to harm you as it starts squeezing the air out of your chest. There will come a point when it won't be funny any more. The constrictor's aim is to kill you. The goal of CITES is to curtail your freedoms while placing control of all natural resources in the hands of a few and has less to do with saving a tree than at first blush. And since they've got you dancing to their tune don't be surprised if they start changing the "regulations" mid stream on what wood and how many ounces it could be or that it can be made of wood at all. Once you allow them to put shackles on you, don't expect them to play fair. Your freedoms are curtailed end of story.

So granted you want to know how to "beat the system" as it were, but the real solution is to throw out a "regulation" that has been thrown upon you. Not saying it is easy, but censoring what I offer isn't the smart way to go. If you want to be ignorant of the facts then that's your call. But not everyone will look at this info the way you do so allow them to make a choice based on their ability to see the writing on the wall, so why wipe the info off the wall? That's like taking the "dead-end-cliff" sign off a dark road just because you have a rule that says no signage allowed on the property.

:***:

I think it is important that bassists understand the nature of the beast rather than just trying to go around it. This is not the only beast coming for you.

It is what is called full spectrum dominance.

Your water is already on the same list.

*sigh* So dramatic, so many condescending assumptions. No matter how you try, you're not going to drag me into the political side of this.

A bassist who needs to cross the border next week or next month for a gig or whatever knows full well that even if he completely disagrees with the law, he's probably not going to get it changed by then. That is who this thread is aimed at, and *that* is not political.

Said bassist is still free to try and get the law changed in the meantime. (Believe it or not, people can do two things at the same time.) But that topic is quite obviously political--there are plenty of places to discuss that, but last I checked, TB isn't one of them.

 

[Deaj]

If CITES is to affect any real change in the trade of contraband sourced from endangered species they'll need to turn their focus to the sourcing and distribution of said contraband. The resources used to inspect personal property and confiscate said property on mere suspicion that it contains contraband of this nature are completely wasted. If this effort and consumption of resources were instead reallocated to address the core issue - to stop the sourcing and distribution of materials sourced from endangered species (i.e. enforcement at the root of the issue) - then perhaps we would see meaningful results.

 

[StayLow]

If CITES is to affect any real change in the trade of contraband sourced from endangered species they'll need to turn their focus to the sourcing and distribution of said contraband. The resources used to inspect personal property and confiscate said property on mere suspicion that it contains contraband of this nature are completely wasted. If this effort and consumption of resources were instead reallocated to address the core issue - to stop the sourcing and distribution of materials sourced from endangered species (i.e. enforcement at the root of the issue) - then perhaps we would see meaningful results.

Too often laws and policing are just a very highly profitable make-work project for those who make laws and enforce them.

 

[peterpalmieri]

If CITES is to affect any real change in the trade of contraband sourced from endangered species they'll need to turn their focus to the sourcing and distribution of said contraband. The resources used to inspect personal property and confiscate said property on mere suspicion that it contains contraband of this nature are completely wasted. If this effort and consumption of resources were instead reallocated to address the core issue - to stop the sourcing and distribution of materials sourced from endangered species (i.e. enforcement at the root of the issue) - then perhaps we would see meaningful results.

Too often laws and policing are just a very highly profitable make-work project for those who make laws and enforce them.

There has been a continual reminder in this thread that to stay open it needs to be focused on bass players or musicians functioning legally within the legal system and not a policy debate, which in short order leads to a political debate..

 

[StayLow]

There has been a continual reminder in this thread that to stay open it needs to be focused on bass players or musicians functioning legally within the legal system and not a policy debate, which in short order leads to a political debate..

Thank you. My apologies.

 

[Deaj]

There has been a continual reminder in this thread that to stay open it needs to be focused on bass players or musicians functioning legally within the legal system and not a policy debate, which in short order leads to a political debate..

Check that. Thank you

 

[Matt Bowen]

The challenge is that it's very hard to date instruments (especially custom builds, one-offs, or vintage instruments). Serial numbers can be fudged, and you can't carbon date new wood accurately enough to know when it was cut down.

You can only carbon date specimens from before July 1945 (the first nuclear detonation in history) because the average about of radioactive carbon-14 in the atmosphere has artificially risen due to human nuclear tests.

 

[Jim Carr]

You can only carbon date specimens from before July 1945 (the first nuclear detonation in history) because the average about of radioactive carbon-14 in the atmosphere has artificially risen due to human nuclear tests.

Not to be a contrarian, but that is not correct. See the data at this link: [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Resolution of carbon-14 dating is not really fine enough anyway.

In any case, I agree carbon dating of instrument materials is not going to happen.

 

[Basspolizei]

Too often laws and policing are just a very highly profitable make-work project for those who make laws and enforce them.

Maybe? But unless you can actually testify to those conclusions you are working on assumptions alone like most. I can actually prove that the money gained by any law enforcement in the US doesn't actually benefit directly the agency itself but only benefits the "general fund" of that agencies controlling government head unless the local DA grants them those monies from seizures. Hence the name, "General fund."

 

[Albert Vickers]

You can only carbon date specimens from before July 1945 (the first nuclear detonation in history) because the average about of radioactive carbon-14 in the atmosphere has artificially risen due to human nuclear tests.

Wrong!