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class d digital amplifiers

#21
bongomania said:
PSA for everyone: when seeing the terms "class D" or "digital amp" used by anyone who isn't an amp designer, just mentally substitute the words "ultra light" in their place. Everyone will end up happier.
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What's funny is that a movie franchise forum I used to frequent had set up automatic text substitutions when someone typed in something from the list of "naughty" words. Perfect application here! :p
 
#22
Carvin has some high-wattage power amps that might be lighter, but that 64lb Ampeg cabinet at only 98 db sensitivity might be able to be replaced by a lighter more efficient cabinet with a high SPL if you want your whole rig lighter.
 
#23
bongomania said:
You would only do that if you haven't learned that "underpowering" is a myth, an old wives' tale. Search on it, and check out the FAQ, to learn.
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At the risk of trolling, could you summarize what you think this FAQ will convey, and why it should be deemed more valid than a more objective professionally-vetted reference? Because all I see in the FAQ is the collected opinions of a bunch of internet forum members, most of whose credentials are unrelated to audio engineering.

Plus, I'm not disagreeing that the term "underpowering" is misleading to the point of being meaningless. I'm just suggesting that given the choice of more power than a speaker is rated for or less, you're better off with more. Has nothing to do with "underpowering" or "overpowering".
 
#24
Roscoe East said:
I'm just suggesting that given the choice of more power than a speaker is rated for or less, you're better off with more. Has nothing to do with "underpowering" or "overpowering".
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If you were not talking about "underpowering", then I apologize for assuming you were. I wonder then what your reasoning is, instead, for suggesting it's better to have an amp that puts out more power than the speakers are rated to handle? That's a sincere question BTW. Do you know of a "professionally vetted reference" on the subject?
Roscoe East said:
At the risk of trolling, could you summarize what you think this FAQ will convey, and why it should be deemed more valid than a more objective professionally-vetted reference? Because all I see in the FAQ is the collected opinions of a bunch of internet forum members, most of whose credentials are unrelated to audio engineering.
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As far as the FAQ, you knew I was specifically talking about underpowering, which you say isn't what you meant at all. So that's a side issue. FTR, the point I thought you were talking about is answered in depth in many many threads by legitimate amplifier and speaker-cab engineers, not just the random people of the internet. If it interests you, check it out.
 
#25
the OP's specification of a 1U amplifier limits his choices. Peavey have some but not too many others do - at least not at an affordable price. I'm using the Carvin DCM1000L which at about ten pounds is a pleasure to tote. It's a 2U form factor. With the tube pre-amp I use in a 4U rack case it can be lifted with two fingers.
 
#26
BassmanPaul said:
the OP's specification of a 1U amplifier limits his choices. Peavey have some but not too many others do - at least not at an affordable price. I'm using the Carvin DCM1000L which at about ten pounds is a pleasure to tote. It's a 2U form factor. With the tube pre-amp I use in a 4U rack case it can be lifter with two fingers.
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Yeah, the 1RU thing is tough...I ended up going with one of the many 2U amps that are super light. You sacrifice an inch and a half in height and get a 7 pound multi kilowatt amp for under 400 dollars. It was an easy decision for me, and I'm not finding that much of a difference in the racking in terms of the extra size. With a one unit preamp, you're working with a 3U rack and can usually even use a shallow one.
 
#27
Roscoe East said:
I'm just suggesting that given the choice of more power than a speaker is rated for or less, you're better off with more.
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Maybe, maybe not. It's better to have at least a little more power than you need than to have not quite enough. But selecting, say, a 1000-watt amp in a situation where a 250-watt amp will be enough, and doing so simply because the loudspeaker's power rating is 750 watts, doesn't make sense either.
 
#28
wow... this post I started really took off in a whole bunch of directions... anyhow... right now I'm dealing with 2 rack configs... I have a power conditioner, bbe tube preamp and a crappy behringer rack tuner in a 4u rack for when we go to our rehersal spot... its all done up through headphones so I don't need the power amp in this case... then I have my yorky ap 4040 that weighs a fair bit in a rolling 10u rack... if were gigging I just transfer everything from the 4u rack into it and also leaves room for extra cables, shoes (yeah i wear different shoes know stage... I like flat soles like airwalks etc...) problem is I need 2 people to lift the damn thing... so my idea was... simply find a 1u power amp and slim my rig down to only use the 4u rack unit... strongly debating on simply pitching the tuner and get a pedal one that works properly... but doesn't solve the weight issue... and its good to have a bit of breathing room... I know some power adapters won't fit unless i leave at least 1 space empty bellow the power conditioner... its funny... you spend the premium $ on an ampeg pro neo cab that you can lift with 1 hand... yet the 850w rms @ 8ohms needs a monster amp to power it... and I was always told better to clip the speaker than the amp... so that's why i was aiming at ~1000watts at 8 ohms... and right now... i don't turn my power amp up to more than 60% its power at the most... so maybe a smaller amp is the way to go...

anyhow... thanks a bunch... learned lots (d is not digital just as iphone4 is not 4g :-))
 
#30
You can ditch the "power conditioner" at a minimum, and I dare say the rack tuner as well......problem solved. They don't condition any power and if your bass is of anything close to medium quality, it'll stay in tune all night.
 
#31
I'm looking at actually replacing the rack tuner.... korg makes errr.. made a good one... discontinued now... but its nice to have nothing on the ground... especially the bars I tend to play where beer gets spilled all over the place... and the power conditioner... even though doesnt condition much... just nice have everything all plugged in and only have 2 cables coming out... one power and one speakon for the cab... I also have my wireless prewired in. I know I'm trying to have the best of both worlds... and I'm being difficult
 
#32
BassmanPaul said:
the OP's specification of a 1U amplifier limits his choices. Peavey have some but not too many others do - at least not at an affordable price. I'm using the Carvin DCM1000L which at about ten pounds is a pleasure to tote. It's a 2U form factor. With the tube pre-amp I use in a 4U rack case it can be lifted with two fingers.
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+ 1

I hear great things about the Carvin power amps. I have a BX500 bass amp and I have zero complaints about it as a power amp to drive my VT bass deluxe. I can image the power amps will do a better job than the bass head will.
 
#34
Nerk said:
I'm looking at actually replacing the rack tuner.... korg makes errr.. made a good one... discontinued now... but its nice to have nothing on the ground... especially the bars I tend to play where beer gets spilled all over the place...
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You can always take the pedal tuner and put it on top of the rack. It doesn't need to go on the floor. Push the bottom with your hand to mute the signal. I do it all the time.

and the power conditioner... even though doesnt condition much...
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Let's just be clear. It doesn't condition anything. Unless you spent a good deal of money on it (I'll ballpark it and say $500+), it's nothing more than a power strip in a rack mounted enclosure.
 
#35
yup... and the power strip part is the usefull part of it... I do have a decent one... and the only thing separating it for.its 500$ brother is fancy led's showing how much power its conditioning... but yeah your right... its just a rack mounted powerbar... which I like... keeps things neat... its the furman m-8Lx if you're curious... and still don't like having a pedal just being on top of my rig... i like being to simply look back and check my tuning once and a while... but i see what you mean...
 
#36
bassgod0dmw said:
You can always take the pedal tuner and put it on top of the rack. It doesn't need to go on the floor. Push the bottom with your hand to mute the signal. I do it all the time.



Let's just be clear. It doesn't condition anything. Unless you spent a good deal of money on it (I'll ballpark it and say $500+), it's nothing more than a power strip in a rack mounted enclosure.
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Yep. My Polytune is on top of my amp if I don't need it.

Also, if you're pushed for space, remember, a rackmount power strip is a great way to go. It will mount to the rear rails of most racks and not take up any real extra room.
 
#38
Since we're now discussing Power Conditioners:

Last Saturday I bought a used American DJ DPD-800. 7 switched outlets and one unswitched on the back. One switched outlet on the front. Two pullout lights. I bought it for 2 reasons:
1. It cost less than $30.
2. I called itself a "Power Distrobution Panel" rather than a "Power Conditioner" like the more expensive Furman on the shelf beside it.

I haven't opened the case to see if it has surge suppression, but that doesn't matter because I carry a plugin surge suppressor in my PA tool box.
 
#39
I agree with Will. Ditch the power "conditioner AND the rack tuner. I use my tuner one a night as my instruments are very stable. I carry a cheap Seiko tuner in every bass case. Having an item in your rack that you use once a night is simply overkill. I have a pair of Korg DTR1000 units neither of which is in a case.
 
#40
hehe... I did say this thread is jumping into a whole bunch of different directions :)

Anyhow, here's the deal, I just went with what I knew was good on the market, yeah, some of it might be overpriced and useless in someone elses mind... I didn't cheap out for a reason,...

I jumped from a yorkville bloc80 that sounded like crap and purely not loud enough to compete against my guitarists at the time marshall stacks, then I bought peavey combo amp that the gain potentiometer went out of whack and is stuck on 10, again making my bass sound like distorted crap and again not loud enough and on top of that, I couldn't lift it on my own,...

since then, i've pretty much stopped playing in bands and my bass was pickup dust for a few years and concentrated on my career, I now I have a decent job and when I got invited into this new band a couple years ago, didn't hold back... time to get the big boy gear.

I have a cousin who's heavilly involved in his guitar rig and also built himself a recording studio and spent lots of time researching gear, I saw what he had, looked great to me, it all works with no problems and he's getting the sound he wants without distorded muddy crud that I've always been experiencing.

I picked up that yorkville power amp for pretty cheap at the pawn shop, used it for the PA system for a few months until I gathered the other pieces of the puzzle, So I knew I was going with a custom rack setup...

Got my gator 10u case, with power "conditioner", beringher tuner (thats when I found out the korg that my cousin has was discontinued.. but figured a tuner is a tuner, I was wrong) a shure wireless unit and also ordered my ampeg pro neo cab... I lifted the classic SVT-410HLF before while helping out with out bands... I did not want to lift that cabinet if I was stuck on my own unloading the car... so I sprung for the pro neo, best decision ever...

I also picked up a new BBE tube pre-amp from ebay, the music store I was dealing with was not an authorized BBE dealer and getting it would of been a pain for him. I love the BBE as well, great pre-amp if you ask me...

So thats pretty much how I gathered my gear... overall, I can say I'm satisfied... so theirs no bitching coming from me. The thought of having a lightweight class D amplifier simply dawn on me as a good upgrade to lighten the load, which is why I started this thread... I wanted to see what my options are... but sounds like everyting is telling me I can simply get by with a pre-amp/power amp, tuner pedal and 10$ power bar and I can probably live with a 500w amp to power that 850w pro neo cab...

thanks again for the advice, I'll play around with different configurations and see where I can trim some fat... maybe sell my power "conditioner" and rack "tuner"... anyone looking for any of these items :)

Oh, and I got that 4u gator case from an online auction when I bought my Crown power amp, I needed something that can push 2ohms for the JL 12w7 sub for my home theater system... Funny, its lighter than the Yorkville, but takes up 3u's...

Oh and my basses, since I haven't mentioned any of them in all my posts but I pretty much wrote a diary on the rest of my rig, I have a Yamaha RBX I think 200, had it for 16 years or so, plays great, I upgraded the pickups and sanded it down to the wood and did a custom paint job on it that looks like crap now :) And just recently picked up an Ibanez SR1205 5 string... first 5 string I've actually played that didn't sound like mud... then again... could of been my gear back then causing that... again, I didn't hold back and didn't get the cheapest available... good gear makes a difference...


on that note... rock on! :bassist:
 

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