Class D popping up everywhere. Innovation?

[Bob Lee (QSC)]

I'm with you on this one I think.
Many people have told me that the power section being digital has no negative effect on the performance of an amp, yet, I have not heard one that I liked...I think.

Have you found any amps that have a digital power section? I'm not familiar with any.

 

[Bob Lee (QSC)]

That would seem to describe a digital hybrid type amplifier, in which tubes perform some function, and then the signal is forwarded to a class-D power output stage which then provides audio power amplification to the speaker.

Where does the "digital" come in? Does it have DSP?

 

[seamonkey]

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"All Amplifiers are Analogue, but Some Amplifiers are More Analogue than Others"
Groenenberg, René; Putzeys, Bruno; van der Hulst, Paul; Veltman, André

I'm guessing anything going from More Analogue to Less is going to be called "Digital"

 

[Bob Lee (QSC)]

I'm guessing anything going from More Analogue to Less is going to be called "Digital"

Audio doesn't have enough misnomers and sloppy, misleading terminology.

 

[metron]

The only major concern i have with new amp designs is that they cant be repaired like the old stuff. Board level servicing is fine for now, and i realize thats where much of the electronics industry is, but i cant see that being a good approach long-term. My mb200 is more like an ipod than an old 800rb.

 

[TravTrav]

The only major concern i have with new amp designs is that they cant be repaired like the old stuff. Board level servicing is fine for now, and i realize thats where much of the electronics industry is, but i cant see that being a good approach long-term. My mb200 is more like an ipod than an old 800rb.

My concerns exactly. It's why I usually end up with amps that were either made when I was 0-4 years old, ha.

 

[Passinwind]

The only major concern i have with new amp designs is that they cant be repaired like the old stuff.

IME, some of the techniques are different, but it's most do-able if proper documentation and parts support are provided. Cost effectiveness is another issue though...

 

[metron]

IME, some of the techniques are different, but it's most do-able if proper documentation and parts support are provided. Cost effectiveness is another issue though...

Is it the case with some modern surface mount boards that they are so tightly populated that hand soldering a part in is very difficult if not impossible? I imagine that even though it is definitely possible to fix a lot of new stuff, risking damaging other things is a strong possibility. I dont have the experience, just imagination so i will defer to those with hands on such as yourself. its just that the board replacement approach freaks me out a bit.

 

[seamonkey]

Surface mount isn't too tough. Yes you can use specialty tools, but solder wick and a soldering iron works. There's videos around showing how to do this.

It would be extremely rare to have to change such a part. With a billion cell phones and computers around built like this. some do fail, but it's very rare.

Power devices MOSFETs are still through hole. These maybe you'd have to change. It too would be rare. Through hole on multi-layered boards is another problem.

 

[grendle]

Surface mount isn't too tough. Yes you can use specialty tools, but solder wick and a soldering iron works. There's videos around showing how to do this.

It would be extremely rare to have to change such a part. With a billion cell phones and computers around built like this. some do fail, but it's very rare.

Power devices MOSFETs are still through hole. These maybe you'd have to change. It too would be rare. Through hole on multi-layered boards is another problem.

Yep I repair them daily. Multi layer isn't a problem as long as you know how to solder, and the board isn't burnt up. The lack of service info though can be a real pain. Chip quick is your friend on the big stuff.

 

[fdeck]

The music gear that I've seen with surface mount parts, tends to use the somewhat older part outlines that are bigger and easier to work on, such as SOIC and 1206's. For me, the challenge is that I don't do it every day, and haven't learned how to diagnose switchmode gear.

But at some point, if stuff gets reliable enough, I don't worry about being able to repair it. You can't replace the parts inside an IC.

 

[Broadstbully22]

I think that technology is never perfect when it first comes out no matter what it is there will be bugs to work out and improvements to be made. It is far to early in this new technologies life to make a judgement on it now. Ten years from now it could be a big failed experiment, but it also could become the norm. Only time will tell. I for one am glad they are making things lighter and smaller and am interested to see where it gos. With that said, I own one and love it, so far.

 

[dunnie]

I'm both an old bass player and an old studio installation and recording electronics engineer. I have an Orange Bass Terror 500 with a 400W 15" EV and Eminence horn in a GK light weight cab, also an Ampeg SVT3 pro with a 410HLF cab. These are both really excellent and sound quite different as all amps and cabs of different types and makes do. The Ampeg is closer to an all-tube amp as it uses FET devices in the output stage. These FETs amplify voltage in a similar manner to tubes and I defy anyone to hear the difference in comparison to an all tube amp. If I have to carry this gear about to gigs, guess what? I take the Orange/ GK outfit every time! Heritage or hernia, it's a no-brainer.

 

[Rockman]

The only major concern i have with new amp designs is that they cant be repaired like the old stuff. Board level servicing is fine for now, and i realize thats where much of the electronics industry is, but i cant see that being a good approach long-term. My mb200 is more like an ipod than an old 800rb.

While I agree that the trend toward more IC use and the like make user repair near impossible, it makes it infinitely cheaper and faster for repairs to take place. Some component is broke? Take it out and replace it. Henry Ford would be proud.

 

[fdeck]

While I agree that the trend toward more IC use and the like make user repair near impossible, it makes it infinitely cheaper and faster for repairs to take place. Some component is broke? Take it out and replace it. Henry Ford would be proud.

Actually, Henry Ford's first car typically had to be repaired by the dealer before it could be sold, and was sold with a tool kit and an extensive repair manual. Many of the replacement parts could be fashioned by the mechanic.

For that matter, send the entire unit back to the maker. It doesn't cost that much to ship a 3-pound amp. The challenge with getting any gear repaired locally is that good techs are a dying breed.

 

[wcriley]

I always laugh when I read threads like these.

Would the people who complain about SMPS, surface mounted micro-miniature components, etc. prefer to do their complaining from the ENIAC or their smart phone or net book?

 

[B-string]

Most readers here have no clue what the ENIAC was

 

[majortoby]

ENIAC? That some kind of microwave oven?

 

[metron]

That might be a bit hyperbolic. Modern computers are only possible with high density vlsi circuits but they have some level of obsolescence that is accepted. We all know pcs dont last forever and when it breaks, buy a new one.

I like my bass amps to last and be easily repairable. For example the difference between a typical through hole design vs something with an off the shelf surface mount power module. I could work on my walkabout with the iron i have. My gk mb200 just burned up unexpectedly after about one year of light use. Theres some charring on the ice module which i dont have the skills to fix.

I like all bass amp topologies for what they are as they have something to offer. An 80lb svt is so amazing but so is a walkabout or a 3lb mb200. Pros and cons and pros and cons.

 

[B-string]

ENIAC? That some kind of microwave oven?

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