Class D - where are the graphic EQs?

[Wasnex]

90% of the pics I see here are guys whose amps have nearly every single control at noon; regardless if that is "flat" or not!

I am more of a tweaker:

This amp does not do flat. However this setting is closer than knobs at 12:00.

 

[coyote1]

I subscribe to the ‘noon’ tone control regimen! That is, for any room (or outdoor) I will initially set the tone to flat everywhere. I only sculpt where needed. With my electrics, there’s not much need. But with the upright…

I don’t use a pickup/piezo. Haven’t come across one of ‘em that I like. I’m using a condenser mic mounted under the strings between bridge and tailpiece. More granular frequency control is essential. Not only for feedback suppression, but to get the amped tone to sound like the instrument.

 

[DWBass]

Huh? There are plenty of amps out there without GEQ… nearly all of ‘em nowadays in fact. Remember: if they exist on the market, it does not mean you personally will be forced to buy one.

I should have added 'For Me' to my post. I, personally have no need for a GEQ on my amps. I'm good in the amp department with what I have.

 

[J Wilson]

This was me. I used it for a couple gigs. Soundman hated it.

If you know what you're doing, a 1/3 octave EQ is invaluable for balancing a PA to a hall or ringing out mons. If you don't know what you're doing (i.e. most people who haven't been trained as sound engineers), it can cause more harm than benefit. Especially on an instrument like bass.

EG, the 'light bulb' moment for me was when a good FOH guy explained it to me that those frequencies listed on the front panel directly corresponded to the frequencies of the notes on any instrument.

I experimented with one for a few days.

So, 40hz was the open E fundamental ( really useful for that room rumble through every mic on stage!), then 80, 160, 320, etc. were the harmonics occurred with 160-320 sounding like bass in practice. A right below middle C really was A440, and so on.

And it then became painfully obvious that what I thought would work with and without the rest of the band plus monitors plus mains was way past anything I'd ever get a handle on, so it became a great spot for the dbx compressor after I sold it.

JW

 

[DWBass]

Oh come on.

90% of the pics I see here are guys whose amps have nearly every single control at noon; regardless if that is "flat" or not!

View attachment 7135847

Most of the time it isn't "flat" in the least bit!

Bass players are for some reason the most terrified of touching their amp knobs.

Guitarists don't have this problem. Could you imagine a Boogie Mark IIc run flat? Yuk!!!!

But then, these SAME bass players also seem to max out the treble and bass on their active eq basses...but don't dare touch them there hi-fallutin' amp knobs!!! No-sir-ee-bob!!!!

If more amps had graphic eqs, 90% of bassists here would leave 'em in a straight line, deathly afraid of...something.

Bass players aren't stupid.

But, I once had a conversation with a well-known bass amp designer who said that graphic eqs "confuse" bass players.

Hmmm...maybe they ARE.

I had a Hartke HA5500. I never touched the GEQ. Always had it in bypass. Just had no use for it. Wasn't afraid of it though.

 

[MaxCellExcelWon]

I had a Hartke HA5500. I never touched the GEQ. Always had it in bypass. Just had no use for it. Wasn't afraid of it though.

 

[agedhorse]

Seeing a few of the somewhat snarky and dismissive comments being made, let me remind you of WHY we aren't seeing a flurry of graphic eq's on today's smaller (class D and otherwise) amps, and this is the opinions of 424 TB members who presumably have a good understanding of their wants, needs and tradeoffs regarding this feature. If you really want or need this feature, amps without it just aren't going to be for you.

 

[MaxCellExcelWon]

Seeing dismissive comments being made, let me remind you of WHY we aren't seeing a flurry of graphic eq's on today's smaller amps, and this is the opinions of 424 TB members.

That's a great sample of bass players...

...on TalkBass.




That's rather "dismissive" of the rest of the world's bassists.

 

[agedhorse]

That's a great sample of bass players...

...on TalkBass.

That's rather dismissive of the rest of the world's bassists.

Since TB is the world's largest international bass forum by both activity and membership (by almost an order of magnitude), it's the best sampling we are going to see, and in no way dismissive.

You don't have to agree with it, but the data is clear AND it agrees with where most manufacturers have gone with their new products.

 

[DanAdams]

But with the upright…

Ahhh.
If I were using a microphone, I would consider a studio channel strip with EQ, compression, and a proper XLR Mic preamp rather than anything made for bass.
You could play around with other mics and mic positions if you had an XLR available
These devices have an input for your electric bass too. (but alas, no graphic EQ)
I think that If I were building a new rig, even primarily for bass guitar I would probably use a channel strip and a pro power amp.
It's also more versatile if you do things besides just playing bass.

Often times in recording studios, or running DI live, a bass signal will never touch anything that you would ever see marketed towards bass players. I like how my bass sounds dry. I use compression and EQ to suit the circumstance, not to 'build a sound'. I imagine your situation with an upright is similar.

Seeing a few of the somewhat snarky and dismissive comments being made, let me remind you of WHY we aren't seeing a flurry of graphic eq's on today's smaller (class D and otherwise) amps, and this is the opinions of 424 TB members who presumably have a good understanding of their wants, needs and tradeoffs regarding this feature. If you really want or need this feature, amps without it just aren't going to be for you.

View attachment 7135891

I wonder what the response would be if the question were, Would you prefer eq control to be on knobs or sliders? The assumption to that poll is that players instead would prefer what? just low mid high? or semi parametric? or no EQ at all? all of those thoughts could exist.

 

[agedhorse]

I wonder what the response would be if the question were, Would you prefer eq control to be on knobs or sliders. The assumption to that poll is that players instead would prefer what? just low mid high? or semi parametric? or no EQ at all? all of those thoughts could exist

The assumption here was that the graphic would be in addition to any traditional eq (tone controls) that their amp of choice might include.

It was not either tone controls OR graphic question.

 

[DanAdams]

The assumption here was that the graphic would be in addition to any traditional eq (tone controls) that their amp of choice might include.

It was not either tone controls OR graphic question.

Gotcha, that is not the assumption I made. it would not occur to me that someone would want rotary EQ controls, AND a _ band graphic EQ. That would just be EQ fighting EQ in my brain.
If there were a _ band graphic eq, I would not expect or want additional shelving EQ on knobs.... but maybe a HPF would e nice.

 

[agedhorse]

Gotcha, that is not the assumption I made. it would not occur to me that someone would want rotary EQ controls, AND a _ band graphic EQ. That would just be EQ fighting EQ in my brain.
If there were a _ band graphic eq, I would not expect or want additional shelving EQ on knobs.... but maybe a HPF would e nice.

That's actually what the vast majority of amps with graphic eq's had, in addition to their rotary EQ/tone controls.

 

[DECEMBER]

I run a rackmount 31-band graphic EQ in my bass amp FX loop. You can get them pretty cheap used. Got this Tapco 2-channel 31-band for like $70. And this Eden Traveler WT-400 is great, with 3 semi-parametric mid bands and low & high bands.
The rack parametric EQ is in the guitar amp FX loop. Everything runs thru the BBE Maxcom as the last thing in the loop.

 

[coyote1]

Seeing a few of the somewhat snarky and dismissive comments being made, let me remind you of WHY we aren't seeing a flurry of graphic eq's on today's smaller (class D and otherwise) amps, and this is the opinions of 424 TB members who presumably have a good understanding of their wants, needs and tradeoffs regarding this feature. If you really want or need this feature, amps without it just aren't going to be for you.

View attachment 7135891

The issue I have with this is I feel like I’m in a shopping mall. Fifty stores, dozens of major brands, all manufacturing and carrying the same two styles of clothing. What is ‘choice’ when the only significant difference is the name on the package, or perhaps the name of the store where you bought it?

Your poll says that GEQ is important to one in every eleven buyers. At this point, it means that the current market leaders are losing nearly nine percent of their potential business to the used market. Perhaps that’s why we see the earlier image of a possible new Hartke…

 

[agedhorse]

The issue I have with this is I feel like I’m in a shopping mall. Fifty stores, dozens of major brands, all manufacturing and carrying the same two styles of clothing. What is ‘choice’ when the only significant difference is the name on the package, or perhaps the name of the store where you bought it?

Your poll says that GEQ is important to one in every eleven buyers. At this point, it means that the current market leaders are losing nearly nine percent of their potential business to the used market. Perhaps that’s why we see the earlier image of a possible new Hartke…

Yet the number of players who find smaller size and cost to be more important than a graphic is much higher. Since adding a graphic adds size (and a little cost), Manufacturers are attempting to respond to what’s most important to most players.

There are plenty of differences between amps, different tone, texture, feel, dynamics, style, build quality, etc. many amps have similar features, yet sound and feel entirely different from each other.

 

[coyote1]

Yet the number of players who find smaller size and cost to be more important than a graphic is much higher. Since adding a graphic adds size (and a little cost), Manufacturers are attempting to respond to what’s most important to most players.

There are plenty of differences between amps, different tone, texture, feel, dynamics, style, build quality, etc. many amps have similar features, yet sound and feel entirely different from each other.

In looking again at the poll, it has 110% of responses. Any poll that exceeds a hundred percent can be said to have inherent bias.

If a person responds to a poll in which multiple responses are allowed (which clearly was the case here), and that respondent checks both the GEQ is not at all important to me AND the size and weight are more important than GEQ boxes, the poll is going to have obvious distortion. Someone seeking to omit GEQ will say “look, we have a hundred percent responses indicating GEQ is irrelevant!”

Obviously this poll was created specifically to relegate GEQ to the dustbin. Congrats to the industry on willfully and deliberately disregarding nearly nine percent of its market.

 

[agedhorse]

In looking again at the poll, it has 110% of responses. Any poll that exceeds a hundred percent can be said to have inherent bias.

If a person responds to a poll in which multiple responses are allowed (which clearly was the case here), and that respondent checks both the GEQ is not at all important to me AND the size and weight are more important than GEQ boxes, the poll is going to have obvious distortion. Someone seeking to omit GEQ will say “look, we have a hundred percent responses indicating GEQ is irrelevant!”

Obviously this poll was created specifically to relegate GEQ to the dustbin. Congrats to the industry on willfully and deliberately disregarding nearly nine percent of its market.

Not in the least, the last vote just allowed players to prioritize why.

I don’t know how you come to the conclusion that this ignores 99% of the market, or that 100% of responses indicated that GEQ was irrelevant?

Almost 9% favored it, pretty clearly stated too.

 

[coyote1]

I don’t know how you come to the conclusion that this ignores 99% of the market, or that 100 of responses indicated that GEQ was irrelevant?

I did neither. Please quote where I reached those conclusions.

I said the industry is ignoring NEARLY NINE percent of its market, and I said the poll results would allow those seeking to eliminate GEQ to claim 100%.

 

[bucephylus]

In looking again at the poll, it has 110% of responses. Any poll that exceeds a hundred percent can be said to have inherent bias.

If a person responds to a poll in which multiple responses are allowed (which clearly was the case here), and that respondent checks both the GEQ is not at all important to me AND the size and weight are more important than GEQ boxes, the poll is going to have obvious distortion. Someone seeking to omit GEQ will say “look, we have a hundred percent responses indicating GEQ is irrelevant!”

Obviously this poll was created specifically to relegate GEQ to the dustbin. Congrats to the industry on willfully and deliberately disregarding nearly nine percent of its market.

With all due respect, the poll allowed multiple responses, simply to allow players to express just a bit more than categorical responses. If you think about it, there certainly is diversity in prefs to be considered. Conservation of votes isn’t consistent with multiple choice polling.

My recollection is that there was no intent of the poll, such as you have suggested, other than to gather data. The data are what they are.

It is not uncommon for different players to have different prefs. For example, I do not prefer 19mm string spacings on 5 string basses; not because of the spacing, but due to the neck conformation. But, I am in the minority on that particular pref. Which is perfectly ok.

If you prefer GEQ’s, then use them. No one is slagging that pref. I had a 3500, which I gigged for several years, and always liked that amp.

It seems unclear why there is so much conflict in some of the posts in this thread. The axe grinding seems unnecessary, inaccurate, and pointless.