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Cliff Burton Hype

#162
I love Cliff and I admit that he is no Les Claypool.

Cliff wasn't one of those guys that outshine the guitarist like Les Claypool. He was a bassist bassist, he was under the guitars and drums, moving the song and all that stuff.
But Cliff could be compared to a dolphin, swimming (playing) under the ocean (The song), but would also jump above the water. This is can bee seen in Seek and Destroy, where he plays mainly open E, but there are parts where he rises up like the 5-h7, and when he plays with the guitars.

Cliff also could be considered the father of Thrash Metal. It was Cliff that told the guys to move from LA, got them into Misfits, and wrote or at least perfected alot of the riffs.

You may not like the his sound or playing but he did have skill. He out grew all his bass teachers. He also took courses in musical theory and taught Jams and Kirk about harmonies etc.

Watch his fingers work on solos, it is almost as mind blowing as Steve Harris.
Because this is music, every one has their own tastes. Like for me when I have had a s***y day and I come home, put on my headphones, and just play the Orion bass solo and it makes me feel good. So for some, Cliff will mean something, others it will mean nothing.

Cliff was not the best, but I think he had huge potential inside him. He has been described as a guitarist playing bass, and he was actually learning to play guitar when he died. So yes, his death has definitely given him some hype because there is always that speculation of "Well he was doing pretty good at 18, imagine what he would have been like at 30".
 
#163
Cliff Burton was talented, Jaco was talented, Les Claypool is talented, Wooten etc.. but naturally different people will gravitate to their desired tastes in music to decide who they like best. Cliff could play and play well, but let's face it, he wasn't gonna go out there and bust out some slap stuff like Wooten, just like Wooten isn't gonna come out and play a guitar solo on his bass. I feel like Cliff was just that though, a bass player who loved metal guitar solos and incorporated it into his playing. Doesn't mean he wasn't talented, because he was, if you gave Dave Mustaine or Kirk Hammet his bass, they'd probably play the same way.

And I agree about "pulling teeth" it really isn't that impressive, he could have done something much better.
 
#164
One thing to remember is that Cliff was very young when he died, He had a lot of growing up to do as an artist, but there was a great deal of potential there. He played what he felt and was not concerned with playing inside the box. I agree with his approach, If it feels right, play it. Cliff's playing speaks to me in a way that other metal bassists does not. I won't say he was the greatest or anything, I really don't think it's relevant. He was a talented young artist an awesome guy and is greatly missed.
 
#165
AlphaMale said:
I'm going to get a lot of **** for this. But I don't see why people think Cliff Burton is better than okay. But I'm not going to say he's not, I would like to know why people think he's so good.
Click to expand...

Your first statement says it all, of course you will.

But

If you think he's no better than "OK", so be it. No need to wonder why someone else thinks more highly of him, we ALL have different tastes for the sake of just being different. I just wish you could have experienced the opportunity of being in that respective time frame to know exactly what bass playing was in that era of metal. Too many people have since emulated such styles and evolved as players, which would make anything that Cliff did then, seem not so impressive to you. Remember what some of Cliff's influences were; Geezer Butler, Phil Lynott,Lemmy and Believe it or not gentlemen, Stanley Clarke. Theres a good size generation gap here that is not mentioned .
Theres a little bit of "Cliff Hype" in each of us as the thread states.
 
#166
I read through the first page of responses and got the idea that the next 8 would be about the same...so...here's my 2 cents.

Cliff was a good player. In the metal community at the time he was probably way above average. Sure we had guys like Geezer Butler and Steve Harris who could lay down some amazing lines and occasionally take a small solo mid-song but Cliff was the first to do a whole track on an album that was nothing but fuzzed out bass insanity. His technical playing was solid for the most part but what I think really stood out was his ability to compose the most beautiful pieces that group would ever play; Call of the Ktulu and Orion.

Keep in mind this is coming from a guy who thinks that Metallica was a second rate thrash band (Seriously, they don't come close to Testament, Forbidden, Slayer, Kreator, I could go on and on) and who listens to The Mahavishnu Orchestra and Herbie Hancock albums on a regular basis.
 
#168
OK. I have been reading this thread and biting my tongue but I finally felt compelled to post.

I knew Cliff. Long before his Metallica days, when he was playing in local Hayward/Castro Valley Bands like EZ Street and Agents of Misfortune. In fact, Cliff gave me my first unofficial bass lesson on his old Rickenbacker. He was 19 -- I was 15. 27 years later, I am still playing bass.

Was Cliff a great bass player in the sense of a Stanley Clarke or Victor Wooten? The answer is No. Truth is most any bass player who has an interest in hard music and is willing to develop his finger speed and invest in a Morley Power Wah Fuzz could copy every Cliff Burton solo note for note. But they would never be great like Cliff.

Cliff was (and is) one of the greatest bass players I have ever seen (or heard). And he deserves to be remembered as such. Here's why.

As a performer - he was amazing. Cliff through his entire body into his playing. His head whipped as if it were on a swivel. His body wrapped around his bass as if it was an internal organ. It was wild and cool. No one AND I MEAN NO ONE, could infuse a crowd with such reckless enthusiasm as did Cliff. Guitarists who were used to going to metal shows to watch the lead guitarist to cop their riffs would purposely move to Cliff's side of the stage to watch what he was doing. We all know when a performer is "On" and when they are just mailing it in. Cliff was always "On." I dare anyone out there to honestly tell me that they saw Cliff play live in person and that it was uninspired. He loved to play bass. He loved it with every ounce of his being. And it showed like no-one I had ever seen before or since.

Cliff's other area of greatness was in his ability to compose heavy music. Kill em All -- Ride the Lightning -- Master of Puppets. Who else recorded epic 10 minute songs like this? Mini-operas. No one. And no one has since. Not even Metallica since Cliff died. Why? Because Cliff was the architect of that sound. With all due respect to James "Dr. H" Hetfield, and Lars and Kirk, the sound of those first few albums is really Cliff's vision. Cliff loved classical music. He loved the way that Bach and Wagner could compose music that sounded like a descent into hell and back. Cliff got it. He figured out exactly what the great classical composers had done and he took it out of the symphony and applied it to a four-piece guitar(s), drum and bass. That music is timeless. Just like Bach and Wagner, because it comes from the same place.

What might Metallica sound like today if Cliff were still alive? What other compositions would he have created? I wish I knew, because I know it would have been inspired and musical and honest.

Cliff died in 1986 at the age of 24. What have most of us accomplished by our 24th birthdays? He contributed so much already and was far from burning out. I think people see him as "GREAT" because of that incredible loss of potential. For whatever reason, I understand it.

Cliff Burton was not a master of the Bass guitar. Not like Stanley or Jaco or maybe even some of you. But he truly was one of the best bass players I ever saw or heard and I am proud to say, the best I have ever known.
 
#169
funkytoe said:
OK. I have been reading this thread and biting my tongue but I finally felt compelled to post.

I knew Cliff. Long before his Metallica days, when he was playing in local Hayward/Castro Valley Bands like EZ Street and Agents of Misfortune. In fact, Cliff gave me my first unofficial bass lesson on his old Rickenbacker. He was 19 -- I was 15. 27 years later, I am still playing bass.

Was Cliff a great bass player in the sense of a Stanley Clarke or Victor Wooten? The answer is No. Truth is most any bass player who has an interest in hard music and is willing to develop his finger speed and invest in a Morley Power Wah Fuzz could copy every Cliff Burton solo note for note. But they would never be great like Cliff.

Cliff was (and is) one of the greatest bass players I have ever seen (or heard). And he deserves to be remembered as such. Here's why.

As a performer - he was amazing. Cliff through his entire body into his playing. His head whipped as if it were on a swivel. His body wrapped around his bass as if it was an internal organ. It was wild and cool. No one AND I MEAN NO ONE, could infuse a crowd with such reckless enthusiasm as did Cliff. Guitarists who were used to going to metal shows to watch the lead guitarist to cop their riffs would purposely move to Cliff's side of the stage to watch what he was doing. We all know when a performer is "On" and when they are just mailing it in. Cliff was always "On." I dare anyone out there to honestly tell me that they saw Cliff play live in person and that it was uninspired. He loved to play bass. He loved it with every ounce of his being. And it showed like no-one I had ever seen before or since.

Cliff's other area of greatness was in his ability to compose heavy music. Kill em All -- Ride the Lightning -- Master of Puppets. Who else recorded epic 10 minute songs like this? Mini-operas. No one. And no one has since. Not even Metallica since Cliff died. Why? Because Cliff was the architect of that sound. With all due respect to James "Dr. H" Hetfield, and Lars and Kirk, the sound of those first few albums is really Cliff's vision. Cliff loved classical music. He loved the way that Bach and Wagner could compose music that sounded like a descent into hell and back. Cliff got it. He figured out exactly what the great classical composers had done and he took it out of the symphony and applied it to a four-piece guitar(s), drum and bass. That music is timeless. Just like Bach and Wagner, because it comes from the same place.

What might Metallica sound like today if Cliff were still alive? What other compositions would he have created? I wish I knew, because I know it would have been inspired and musical and honest.

Cliff died in 1986 at the age of 24. What have most of us accomplished by our 24th birthdays? He contributed so much already and was far from burning out. I think people see him as "GREAT" because of that incredible loss of potential. For whatever reason, I understand it.

Cliff Burton was not a master of the Bass guitar. Not like Stanley or Jaco or maybe even some of you. But he truly was one of the best bass players I ever saw or heard and I am proud to say, the best I have ever known.
Click to expand...
+1,000,000,000,000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
#170
funkytoe said:
OK. I have been reading this thread and biting my tongue but I finally felt compelled to post.

I knew Cliff. Long before his Metallica days, when he was playing in local Hayward/Castro Valley Bands like EZ Street and Agents of Misfortune. In fact, Cliff gave me my first unofficial bass lesson on his old Rickenbacker. He was 19 -- I was 15. 27 years later, I am still playing bass.

Was Cliff a great bass player in the sense of a Stanley Clarke or Victor Wooten? The answer is No. Truth is most any bass player who has an interest in hard music and is willing to develop his finger speed and invest in a Morley Power Wah Fuzz could copy every Cliff Burton solo note for note. But they would never be great like Cliff.

Cliff was (and is) one of the greatest bass players I have ever seen (or heard). And he deserves to be remembered as such. Here's why.

As a performer - he was amazing. Cliff through his entire body into his playing. His head whipped as if it were on a swivel. His body wrapped around his bass as if it was an internal organ. It was wild and cool. No one AND I MEAN NO ONE, could infuse a crowd with such reckless enthusiasm as did Cliff. Guitarists who were used to going to metal shows to watch the lead guitarist to cop their riffs would purposely move to Cliff's side of the stage to watch what he was doing. We all know when a performer is "On" and when they are just mailing it in. Cliff was always "On." I dare anyone out there to honestly tell me that they saw Cliff play live in person and that it was uninspired. He loved to play bass. He loved it with every ounce of his being. And it showed like no-one I had ever seen before or since.

Cliff's other area of greatness was in his ability to compose heavy music. Kill em All -- Ride the Lightning -- Master of Puppets. Who else recorded epic 10 minute songs like this? Mini-operas. No one. And no one has since. Not even Metallica since Cliff died. Why? Because Cliff was the architect of that sound. With all due respect to James "Dr. H" Hetfield, and Lars and Kirk, the sound of those first few albums is really Cliff's vision. Cliff loved classical music. He loved the way that Bach and Wagner could compose music that sounded like a descent into hell and back. Cliff got it. He figured out exactly what the great classical composers had done and he took it out of the symphony and applied it to a four-piece guitar(s), drum and bass. That music is timeless. Just like Bach and Wagner, because it comes from the same place.

What might Metallica sound like today if Cliff were still alive? What other compositions would he have created? I wish I knew, because I know it would have been inspired and musical and honest.

Cliff died in 1986 at the age of 24. What have most of us accomplished by our 24th birthdays? He contributed so much already and was far from burning out. I think people see him as "GREAT" because of that incredible loss of potential. For whatever reason, I understand it.

Cliff Burton was not a master of the Bass guitar. Not like Stanley or Jaco or maybe even some of you. But he truly was one of the best bass players I ever saw or heard and I am proud to say, the best I have ever known.
Click to expand...

Fin​
 
#171
"Cliff's other area of greatness was in his ability to compose heavy music. Kill em All -- Ride the Lightning -- Master of Puppets. Who else recorded epic 10 minute songs like this? Mini-operas. No one. And no one has since. Not even Metallica since Cliff died. Why? Because Cliff was the architect of that sound. With all due respect to James "Dr. H" Hetfield, and Lars and Kirk, the sound of those first few albums is really Cliff's vision. Cliff loved classical music. He loved the way that Bach and Wagner could compose music that sounded like a descent into hell and back. Cliff got it. He figured out exactly what the great classical composers had done and he took it out of the symphony and applied it to a four-piece guitar(s), drum and bass. That music is timeless. Just like Bach and Wagner, because it comes from the same place."


^Exactly. :D
 
#175
funkytoe said:
OK. I have been reading this thread and biting my tongue but I finally felt compelled to post.

I knew Cliff. Long before his Metallica days, when he was playing in local Hayward/Castro Valley Bands like EZ Street and Agents of Misfortune. In fact, Cliff gave me my first unofficial bass lesson on his old Rickenbacker. He was 19 -- I was 15. 27 years later, I am still playing bass.

Was Cliff a great bass player in the sense of a Stanley Clarke or Victor Wooten? The answer is No. Truth is most any bass player who has an interest in hard music and is willing to develop his finger speed and invest in a Morley Power Wah Fuzz could copy every Cliff Burton solo note for note. But they would never be great like Cliff.

Cliff was (and is) one of the greatest bass players I have ever seen (or heard). And he deserves to be remembered as such. Here's why.

As a performer - he was amazing. Cliff through his entire body into his playing. His head whipped as if it were on a swivel. His body wrapped around his bass as if it was an internal organ. It was wild and cool. No one AND I MEAN NO ONE, could infuse a crowd with such reckless enthusiasm as did Cliff. Guitarists who were used to going to metal shows to watch the lead guitarist to cop their riffs would purposely move to Cliff's side of the stage to watch what he was doing. We all know when a performer is "On" and when they are just mailing it in. Cliff was always "On." I dare anyone out there to honestly tell me that they saw Cliff play live in person and that it was uninspired. He loved to play bass. He loved it with every ounce of his being. And it showed like no-one I had ever seen before or since.

Cliff's other area of greatness was in his ability to compose heavy music. Kill em All -- Ride the Lightning -- Master of Puppets. Who else recorded epic 10 minute songs like this? Mini-operas. No one. And no one has since. Not even Metallica since Cliff died. Why? Because Cliff was the architect of that sound. With all due respect to James "Dr. H" Hetfield, and Lars and Kirk, the sound of those first few albums is really Cliff's vision. Cliff loved classical music. He loved the way that Bach and Wagner could compose music that sounded like a descent into hell and back. Cliff got it. He figured out exactly what the great classical composers had done and he took it out of the symphony and applied it to a four-piece guitar(s), drum and bass. That music is timeless. Just like Bach and Wagner, because it comes from the same place.

What might Metallica sound like today if Cliff were still alive? What other compositions would he have created? I wish I knew, because I know it would have been inspired and musical and honest.

Cliff died in 1986 at the age of 24. What have most of us accomplished by our 24th birthdays? He contributed so much already and was far from burning out. I think people see him as "GREAT" because of that incredible loss of potential. For whatever reason, I understand it.

Cliff Burton was not a master of the Bass guitar. Not like Stanley or Jaco or maybe even some of you. But he truly was one of the best bass players I ever saw or heard and I am proud to say, the best I have ever known.
Click to expand...

You win
 
#176
funkytoe, you nailed it, so I don't feel bad for steering a little off topic here....

On the video game Rock Band, there's a track with Cliff's playing on it - Metallica's "Ride the Lightning". And if you play that song on practice mode with "guitar" selected, and you set the guitar down and play nothing, you can hear the whole song without any guitar - meaning you only hear vocals, drums, and Cliff's freaking awesome bass. It's really worth it to make the effort because you can hear all the cool stuff he did that you can't hear on the album because it's buried under the guitars. I recorded it and listen to it on my mp3 player all the time.

I think part of the reason that Cliff is underappreciated it because you can't friggin hear him most of the time. I'd love to hear a no-guitar version of "Call of Kthulu".
 
#178
@ funkytoe Invalid Link RemovedInvalid Link RemovedInvalid Link RemovedInvalid Link RemovedInvalid Link Removed Invalid Link Removed Invalid Link Removed Invalid Link Removed

I disagree on one point:
The answer is No. Truth is most any bass player who has an interest in hard music and is willing to develop his finger speed and invest in a Morley Power Wah Fuzz could copy every Cliff Burton solo note for note.
Click to expand...
I've been tryin' and tryin', but can't get it out the right way yet... (and I'm 31! :mad:)
 
#180
funkytoe said:
...Who else recorded epic 10 minute songs like this? Mini-operas. No one. And no one has since...
Click to expand...

There are so many bands out there that have recorded epic 10 minute songs. Have you ever heard of black metal or death metal? These styles of music can be compared to classical music.

funkytoe said:
...He figured out exactly what the great classical composers had done and he took it out of the symphony and applied it to a four-piece guitar(s), drum and bass. That music is timeless. Just like Bach and Wagner, because it comes from the same place.
Click to expand...

I agree that Cliff Burton had some classical influences. However, comparing early Metallica compositions to Bach and Wagner compositions is sacrilege.
 

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