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Cliff Burton Hype

#141
This treads way off of its original intent now...so let me add something else completely irrelevant to it.:)

One of the earlier posts mentioned "Viking Metal." Could someone please explain to me what the hell "Viking Metal" is and why it differs from whatever style spawned it?

I'm sitting here imagining a bunch of hard-core idiots wearing horned helmets screaming about how cool Thor is while the audience stabs each other with saexes.
 
#142
MyUsernameHere said:
This treads way off of its original intent now...so let me add something else completely irrelevant to it.:)

One of the earlier posts mentioned "Viking Metal." Could someone please explain to me what the hell "Viking Metal" is and why it differs from whatever style spawned it?

I'm sitting here imagining a bunch of hard-core idiots wearing horned helmets screaming about how cool Thor is while the audience stabs each other with axes.
Click to expand...

About right, some use gang chants, some add violins and accordians IIRC.
 
#144
theNoseBleedKid said:
Pantera kept metal alive? COME ON, any person who knows ANYTHING couldn't make such a blanketly ******** and superficial statement.

What exactly did Pantera keep alive? Viking metal and Black metal at the beginning and mid 90's was boojming, Bathory and Quothorn's acts were massive and the following amazing, progressive metal such as Pain of salvation and DT was gaining popularity, Opeth started, Alchemist started, hell even tool was just as popular as Pantera (if your going to call them metal), I'm sick of people treating Pantera like demi gods.

The band was nothing special, just because they gained popularity does not equate to genius, musical integrity or some kind of post death fanboyism that follows the word 'dime' everytime its posted.

Pantera were fine, they do not deserve their credit and there were much more influential, important and bands of higher quality. Certainly they didn't 'save' metal from whatever imagined fate your implying.

What did Pantera's legacy leave behind? Trivium, KsE. What did Bathory's? Gorgoroth, Opeth, Viking metal as a genre and finntroll.

Check and mate.
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Buddy, you need to learn how to play chess. When CFH hit the streets, grunge was the rage and all the hair bands had to offer was Firehouse and Steelheart. Indeed, metal was on the downfall besides the underground stuff that hardly anybody was listening to much less getting any airplay, save the few guys in basements and the backs of record stores looking for the most obscure music they could find so they could brag to their buddies about how "in tune" they were with metal.
I've been listening to metal since the NWOBHM and although I've heard of literally every type of metal, only a small fraction of a percentage of it was listened to. Just because you liked it didn't mean it was overly popular.

Nobody is saying Pantera was the end all, be all, but they did blow up the metal scene and stand it on it's end when we're talking about metal regaining airplay on a regular basis. I didn't hear Opeth and Alchemist on the radio at all. Being in the military, I had quite the opportunity to hear all kinds of metal all over the world and other than Megadeth, Anthrax and Slayer, Pantera was a force to be reckoned with. Pantera did for metal in the early 90's what Nirvana did for grunge, period.

As tired as you are of the so-called annointing of Pantera, I'm tired of people who claim their favorite type of metal is THE one and only metal. Check your king, my friend. Your hypocrisy knows no bounds.
 
#146
#148
Spector_Ray said:
Buddy, you need to learn how to play chess. When CFH hit the streets, grunge was the rage and all the hair bands had to offer was Firehouse and Steelheart. Indeed, metal was on the downfall besides the underground stuff that hardly anybody was listening to much less getting any airplay, save the few guys in basements and the backs of record stores looking for the most obscure music they could find so they could brag to their buddies about how "in tune" they were with metal.
I've been listening to metal since the NWOBHM and although I've heard of literally every type of metal, only a small fraction of a percentage of it was listened to. Just because you liked it didn't mean it was overly popular.

Nobody is saying Pantera was the end all, be all, but they did blow up the metal scene and stand it on it's end when we're talking about metal regaining airplay on a regular basis. I didn't hear Opeth and Alchemist on the radio at all. Being in the military, I had quite the opportunity to hear all kinds of metal all over the world and other than Megadeth, Anthrax and Slayer, Pantera was a force to be reckoned with. Pantera did for metal in the early 90's what Nirvana did for grunge, period.

As tired as you are of the so-called annointing of Pantera, I'm tired of people who claim their favorite type of metal is THE one and only metal. Check your king, my friend. Your hypocrisy knows no bounds.
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Please read my posts addressing my views on the gunge scene, airplay and the like, I can't be bothered re typing it, I'm sure it'll clear things up a lot.

You mentioned airplay, which, as far as I'm concerned, is largely irrelevant for metal. Alchemist and Opeth STILL get no airplay, or next to none, hell even Slayer are pushed for commerical airplay on the stations, at least here (apart from like the local metal hour). However (in the case of Opeth/Alchemist) they have acheived reaching an audience, and creating their vibe, so I fail to see how, at least in this instance, airplay is equivilent to popularity in the metal scene. Granted that was a different playing field in the early 90's, but many of the fans still remain, and underground scenes still exist and work well. Again, as I mentioned earlier underground bands releasing albums at the same time as Pantera, such as Bathory sold out shows in the US, so clearly someone who wanted to find the music could do so.

I never claimed 'my metal' was the best, I simply pointed out that other bands were, as far as I'm concerned, creating more influential and ground breaking music that was of higher quality at the same time. I guess you missed that, examples that are convienient work well.

I'm not being hypocritical, there are subtle but important differences in what I'm saying as opposed to what your claiming I meant.
 
#151
Darkstrike said:
Shows, could mean small pubs or anything.
Pantera = Arena's. See the difference.
I highly doubt Bathroy would sell out an arena even now.
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Good point, I was just trying to assert that another, more influential, scene did exist and it obviously had popularity. It'd be hard for teenagers to tour America selling out pubs, considering they were from Norway, so I presume it'd be more clubs.

Of course they couldn't sell out shows now, they are dated and their lead singer dead, but their legacy and influence includes many bands that are consistantly selling out shows, and arenas.
 
#152
theNoseBleedKid said:
Good point, I was just trying to assert that another, more influential, scene did exist and it obviously had popularity. It'd be hard for teenagers to tour America selling out pubs, considering they were from Norway, so I presume it'd be more clubs.

Of course they couldn't sell out shows now, they are dated and their lead singer dead, but their legacy and influence includes many bands that are consistantly selling out shows, and arenas.
Click to expand...

I didnt mean that it did not have popularty, but to call it more influential is a mistake,
Take it this way, how many kids listend to Pantera and decided to pickup an axe for themselves, a lot more than after listening to an underground band.
How do people get into the underground, through the more popular bands, the gateway if you will, eg Pantera etc. I didnt wake up when I was 13 and decide to listen to Burzum etc rather than the radio. Major bands like Pantera influinced people towards these more extreme bands.
 
#153
theNoseBleedKid said:
Of course they couldn't sell out shows now, they are dated and their lead singer dead, but their legacy and influence includes many bands that are consistantly selling out shows, and arenas.
Click to expand...

No one's selling out shows in arenas now except 60 year old rockers, American Idol finalists and Hanna Montana.:scowl:

/Slight exaggeration, I know.
//But not by much.
 
#155
Darkstrike said:
I didnt mean that it did not have popularty, but to call it more influential is a mistake,
Take it this way, how many kids listend to Pantera and decided to pickup an axe for themselves, a lot more than after listening to an underground band.
How do people get into the underground, through the more popular bands, the gateway if you will, eg Pantera etc. I didnt wake up when I was 13 and decide to listen to Burzum etc rather than the radio. Major bands like Pantera influinced people towards these more extreme bands.
Click to expand...

Well I mean influential in the type of music that followed, as I mentioned earlier bands like trivium and KsE are Pantera's legacy (and we all know how metal they are:hmm:).

While bands like Opeth, AE, Enslaved, Entombed followed Bathory and Burzum - which are much more beneficial to metal as opposed to the pop screamo stuff I previously discussed.
 
#157
theNoseBleedKid said:
Well I mean influential in the type of music that followed, as I mentioned earlier bands like trivium and KsE are Pantera's legacy (and we all know how metal they are:hmm:).

While bands like Opeth, AE, Enslaved, Entombed followed Bathory and Burzum - which are much more beneficial to metal as opposed to the pop screamo stuff I previously discussed.
Click to expand...

Yeah, mabye, but these band didnt start listening to Bathory and Burzum out of nowhere, they all listened to bands such as Panera too.
 
#158
**This is my personal experience only, so take it for what its worth**

I started playing with local metal bands when I was 15 years old playing mostly cover music. I could put most of the bass players at the time into three groups. There were players who just played the root IV; there were some who tried to sound like Steve Harris; and there were some who tried to sound like Geddy Lee. The bass players in these bands pulled this off with varying degrees of success.

When Ride the Lightning was released Metallica started setting themselves apart from the pack of metal bands at the time. The subject matter they were writing about was different form other big metal bands and the production was better. When Master of Puppets was released the scene definitely changed. For all of you who were playing metal in clubs around that time you know exactly what I’m talking about. People expected to hear Metallica from the cover bands, everyone who wanted to work played Metallica. Around this time there was a fourth set of bass players who emerged: Those who were trying to be Cliff. Personally I liked D.D. Verni and Dave Ellefson better because I used a pick, but that’s beside the point. Cliff was influencing players on the scene. No doubt about it.

So what was the big deal about Cliff? Was it because he was in the band that was starting to emerge from the pack? Maybe. Was it because people thought he had the best chops? Maybe. Did people think he had the best hair? Maybe. Regardless of the reason, many players found inspiration in what he was doing. The interest in Cliff went over the top when he died, but he already had a following, trust me. Rightly or wrongly I think his death made him more of an icon just like it did for a LOT of other musicians who would have been largely ignored or quickly forgotten otherwise. Doubtlessly there are players with better chops than Cliff, but there are very few people who pick up an instrument to emulate a player strictly because of virtuosity, that interest comes later (or not at all). Cliff as a player and Metallica as a band sparked interest and entertained. That’s enough of a reason for someone to start playing.

When I first started playing I remember having a discussion with my uncle who is a musician (guitarist) by trade about the Beatles. I dismissed almost all of their stuff as just bubblegum pop. He told me that I didn’t understand, and he was right. Context is everything. When I talk to kids now who are just starting out and like the guy from Good Charlotte or some other band I don’t give a hoot about I don’t get that either, but I realize now what I didn’t realize at 12, it doesn’t matter if I get it. It just matters to them and that’s the point here too.
 

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