Club Alleva-Coppolo (Part 13)

[svtb15]

+1

At least I, for one, wouldn't be upset if I spec'd a 9 pound max and it ended up just slightly over, so I don't think anyone would expect it to be 0.00 pounds "tolerance". I think most folks are pretty reasonable about that. But if I spec'd a 9 pound max and it ended up being closer to 10 pounds, that'd be a problem. On the other hand, if I spec'd a 9 pound bass and it ended up 8.5, that wouldn't bother me AT ALL. So if your estimation system runs a range of variation, just shoot for the low end, and you'll always win, and even if you go over, it should just be very slightly, and no cause for concern or complaint.

IMHO anyway.

 

[fredguy]

Things have gotten a little crazy here as of late.

FWIW I bought my first AC, a Dakota red LG5, in 2007 based on discussions at TB. At the time Jimmy had one in stock and after some discussion I got it with a 48 hour trial period. When I received the bass there was a spot on the belly cut where the color coat had been wet sanded to the wood and clear coated over. It was easy to miss but I called Jimmy and he offered to take the bass back on his dime. I told him I'd keep it through the trial period and let him know after I'd tried it with the band. Needless to say I kept the bass and put put in an order for an LM5 in January of 2008. After thinking about it I changed the order to a sunburst KBP5 as it was a better fit for what I wanted in a second AC bass and Jimmy was using the painter in NY that had painted for Fender in the sixties. Since I'd kept the LG Jimmy added a tinted nitro neck, I'd ordered a poly neck since the thin poly on the LG was amazing, and added his new bent plate bridge at no cost since he felt that made a more better sounding bass. He also kept the weight where I wanted it, ~8.5 lbs. Jimmy's a stand up guy and if you have a problem with one of his basses he'll make it right. Since buying the KBP I've sold all my non AC basses except a '71 Franken P.

In finishing my rant, and agreeing with Ken, I'd like to add his necks are the most stable of any basses I've owned. I live in Utah which has some crazy temperature swings and the only time I adjust the truss rod on a neck is when I switch from rounds to flats. The flats require tightening the truss rod a quarter turn.

Dave

 

[peterpalmieri]

Worth mentioning: So far for the LM series of basses, I prefer the tone of the heavier North Eastern ash as opposed to the lighter ash. To my ears it's the sound that represents that model best.
-Jimmy Coppolo

I am glad this has been reaffirmed. I had a UV70 that was very light and a nice bass, not really what I was looking for tonally.

To be honest when I ordered my LM5, I never really played an ash/maple 5 with 70s spacing that I totally loved. I guess if I had I wouldn't have needed Jimmy to make me one...

All other things being equal I would have preferred a 8.5lb bass and since I have never had the opportunity to play anothe LM regardless of weight I went with Jimmy suggestion and I think it was the right move.

I am glad he clarified this because based on the 'trips to the lumber yard' posts I think people were getting a different impression. I wouldn't be suprised if at some point Jimmy comes across a great stash of light ash that he loves and sets aside for a premium as he has with the DN.

I am also guessing as the years pass he will build up a much more significant and diverse wood assortment to choose from.

 

[KJung]

I am glad this has been reaffirmed. I had a UV70 that was very light and a nice bass, not really what I was looking for tonally.

To be honest when I ordered my LM5, I never really played an ash/maple 5 with 70s spacing that I totally loved. I guess if I had I wouldn't have needed Jimmy to make me one...

OT, but FYI, while that UV70 model is a wonderful bass, it has little to do with copping a more Fendery 70's vibe, with the HC pickups and the 'Sadowsky voicing' that is so strong in all of his basses. MUCH more going on there than simple weight.

I agree though that if you really want that hard attack, compressed, passive old school 70's gank... the classic old school 70's funk tone... a heavy piece of ash is going to help get you there (from all my discussions with Narud and my experience with Fenders from that era). However, if you define '70's tone' more along the active side of the tone continuum.... i.e., a bit closer to the Marcus Miller thing, then the formula can change quite a bit IMO (e.g., those who have been lucky enough to play Marcus' bass report that it is on the light side of the weight continuum for that era of instrument). Just depends on what you want!

Strings also have a big impact. I'm actually moving away from my beloved Hi Beams on my LM. The Hi Beams are very smooth and wide and airy and pure sounding (they sound GREAT on the LM and 'do what they do' very well), but the more traditionally voiced Lo Rider Steels rough up the upper mids a bit and bring to mind more of that 'classic' upper mid gank and grind that is so associated with this era of instrument.

 

[peterpalmieri]

Ken,

It's funny that you say that, I put on a new set of Low Rider SS on the LM on Friday night. For me that bass is very polite in the mids and the Low Riders seem to liven it up just a bit. The Hi Beams that were on my bass were put on by Jimmy in the shop so they have been on for a while anyway.

In total fairness to everyone after I placed my order for the LM 5/2009, Jimmy came up with a number of proposed changes. Micro tilt, 1 piece neck/fingerboard, skunk stripe, thicker neck profile, thinnner wider body. Some of those changes made it to my bass, others did not some seem to have stuck on newer basses while others didn't. I allowed Jimmy the freedom to build my bass the way he wanted to and just gave approval on what he thought was best. Most notably he advised against the micro tilt after the NAMM bass.

When the bass was done Jimmy was clear, some of these things are totally new to me, if there is a problem don't hesitate to address any issues with me. After a few weeks with the bass I did send Jimmy a very extensive email on what I thought of the bass, what I loved, what I wasn't loving etc. I think he appreciated that feedback.

After spending that much time, money and effort on both sides to get a 'dream' bass I personally feel that there are certain things we discussed, debated, loved and hated that was between Jimmy and I. I try to stick to the idea that I don't post anything on talkbass that I wouldn't directly say to someone in person or in email.

I do also get the impression that those that know Jimmy well attempt to convey his thoughts and feelings with good intentions and sometimes they don't represent him 100%. I think Jimmy's recent comments helped clear that up although I bet there is a list of questions some still have on the table.

 

[peterpalmieri]

FWIW I bought my first AC, a Dakota red LG5, in 2007 based on discussions at TB.

You don't post pics of that bass often enough

 

[Vic]

Worth mentioning: So far for the LM series of basses, I prefer the tone of the heavier North Eastern ash as opposed to the lighter ash. To my ears it's the sound that represents that model best.
-Jimmy Coppolo

I am glad this has been reaffirmed.

Reaffirmed? No offense, but this has always been core understanding and never brought under question in this thread, AFAIK. Jimmy has always felt this way, has never said otherwise, and is absolutely correct. The only issue that's been debated has been a desire to see more willingness to make a lighter bass upon demand, as an alternative to his standard, which should be period correct, and should be relatively heavy.

IMHO

 

[narud]

Reaffirmed? No offense, but this has always been core understanding and never brought under question in this thread, AFAIK. Jimmy has always felt this way, has never said otherwise, and is absolutely correct. The only issue that's been debated has been a desire to see more willingness to make a lighter bass upon demand, as an alternative to his standard, which should be period correct, and should be relatively heavy.

IMHO

that may have always been his feeling, but its only been recently that these 10 pound plus lms have been creeping out. previously, they were in the weight range of kens which was 9 pounds and nothing i would really consider heavy at all.

 

[peterpalmieri]

Reaffirmed? No offense, but this has always been core understanding and never brought under question in this thread, AFAIK. Jimmy has always felt this way, has never said otherwise, and is absolutely correct. The only issue that's been debated has been a desire to see more willingness to make a lighter bass upon demand, as an alternative to his standard, which should be period correct, and should be relatively heavy.

IMHO

What I meant was, that this was his preference and not the only way he would do it. He was clear that he would go light if a customer preferred it.

I had been getting the impression of other TBers that they did bring into question that core understanding and seemed to believe it was 'my way or the highway" when it came to the ash body basses.

 

[peterpalmieri]

that may have always been his feeling, but its only been recently that these 10 pound plus lms have been creeping out. previously, they were in the weight range of kens which was 9 pounds and nothing i would really consider heavy at all.

"So far for the LM series of basses, I prefer the tone of the heavier North Eastern ash as opposed to the lighter ash. To my ears it's the sound that represents that model best."

I don't know how long ago you had these discussions with him and I wonder how many LMs he built before that discussion and how many he has built after the discussion. As a point of reference my LG #B50073 was completed 10/2007 and my LM #B50287 was completed 6/2010. So he's made over 200 5 string basses in less then 3 years.

I would guess he's gaining a preference partly on those builds but I know he is also interested in checking out vintage Fenders whenever he can get his hands on a good one.

 

[Vic]

On the LM weight thing, I think I can summarize...

Early on, back in the NYC days that produced Ken's LM5, which according to him is closer to 9 pounds, Jimmy had produced both heavier and lighter LMs... depending on the wood on hand. But he's always preferred the tone and period accuracy of the heavier stuff. I personally spoke to him on the phone years ago about this very topic.

Eventually, he ran out of the lighter stuff, and due to his preferences, never really sought it out, so the LMs started getting heavier. As Peter points out, this has actually been happening for a while.

Later, in the LA days, he also increased the size of the body, which caused a fluster here, but we were advised the thickness was adjusted to more or less keep the weight the same.

So I think it all really boils down to one thing... early on, he had some lighter ash. As time went on, that bled off, and his LM's have generally been heavier, but it's only about the wood... not the body redesign.

This is why recent discussions have been all about wood selection... not any redesigns.

This post is just an FYI/AFAIK, not necessarily a rebuttal to another post.

 

[narud]

On the LM weight thing, I think I can summarize...

Early on, back in the NYC days that produced Ken's LM5, which according to him is closer to 9 pounds, Jimmy had produced both heavier and lighter LMs... depending on the wood on hand. But he's always preferred the tone and period accuracy of the heavier stuff. I personally spoke to him on the phone years ago about this very topic.

Eventually, he ran out of the lighter stuff, and due to his preferences, never really sought it out, so the LMs started getting heavier. As Peter points out, this has actually been happening for a while.

Later, in the LA days, he also increased the size of the body, which caused a fluster here, but we were advised the thickness was adjusted to more or less keep the weight the same.

So I think it all really boils down to one thing... early on, he had some lighter ash. As time went on, that bled off, and his LM's have generally been heavier, but it's only about the wood... not the body redesign.

This is why recent discussions have been all about wood selection... not any redesigns.

This post is just an FYI/AFAIK, not necessarily a rebuttal to another post.

this post is cracking me up. im not trying to be a punk, but this reads like we're talking about precbs fenders or something.

 

[narud]

"So far for the LM series of basses, I prefer the tone of the heavier North Eastern ash as opposed to the lighter ash. To my ears it's the sound that represents that model best."

I don't know how long ago you had these discussions with him and I wonder how many LMs he built before that discussion and how many he has built after the discussion. As a point of reference my LG #B50073 was completed 10/2007 and my LM #B50287 was completed 6/2010. So he's made over 200 5 string basses in less then 3 years.

I would guess he's gaining a preference partly on those builds but I know he is also interested in checking out vintage Fenders whenever he can get his hands on a good one.

my last visit was like may of 2009 i think. first time was maybe september of 2008 i think? nothing was in that range of what id call heavy. there was one bass that was originally made for britt hancock or at least sold to him first, that was 11 pounds. prior to that i was busting his balls asking him why he was so period correct with the 60's stuff but then putting out these 9 pound 5 string 70's style jazzes.

 

[Bernie Connors]

Thanks man

Am I ever glad to hear that cuz I was feeling a bit emotional over my first rant. Then the bass ( LM 5 ) took me to the side ( recorded with it and had a little "walk thru" with me and I was just FINE ).

For the record, I believe it was another TBer mentioning feeling bad for ones who make purchases based on hype and the internet-I AM NOT ONE OF THEM.

I talked to Jimmy back in 2006 when I had seen Ethan Farmer perform in a town I was living in at the time, with Toni Braxton and I couldn`t figure out what bass he was playing ( I have ran my own high end and vintage bass shop for some time and know a few of the top players and luthiers in the bass world and thus was familiar with most basses)..but the headstock baffled me. Did my research and the following year played a 4 string LPB that an ALLEVA artist in LA owns. I too have been on the phone with Jason L in the last year ( NICE CAT ) and he had great things to say about AC basses and encouraged me along with the above artist to get one--these are the $*?"

Too, significant local pro players/ collectors (4) who I respect in the biz, SWEAR by ALLEVA COPPOLA instruments.

Along with these great comments here on TB ( I only started reading these threads 2 months ago ).....and PM`s to many AC owners ( you know who you are guys- THANX !)

I was confident in taking the PLUNGE !

GLAD I did.

I would dig seeing some pics of your gold LM if you have any available. If that's the one on Jimmy's site, that's a killer looking bass.

 

[peterpalmieri]

my last visit was like may of 2009 i think. first time was maybe september of 2008 i think? nothing was in that range of what id call heavy. there was one bass that was originally made for britt hancock or at least sold to him first, that was 11 pounds. prior to that i was busting his balls asking him why he was so period correct with the 60's stuff but then putting out these 9 pound 5 string 70's style jazzes.

Your last visit was just around when I ordered my LM.

I am sure Jimmy is learning as he goes and I wonder if he took your comments into consideration. I still think for you you'd still have a pickup issue for what you are looking for.

 

[narud]

Your last visit was just around when I ordered my LM.

I am sure Jimmy is learning as he goes and I wonder if he took your comments into consideration. I still think for you you'd still have a pickup issue for what you are looking for.

that was one of the reasons i didnt buy that 11 pound lm5. i was having some trouble making the notes pop when i dug in and the guts were still much grindier and lacking the air up top of my 78 jazz. i ended up being very pleasantly surprised with the vf5 i ended up picking up. i originally bought it as a stop gap like you did with the sad, but it ended up sticking.

there really are some great options now. at the time, a 34" scale heavy 70's style jazz was something that wasnt happening. his lms were light, but he was willing to build it heavy. this was before the 34" scale nordy's came out and careys now willing to build one with a northern ash body which is another option. if you can deal with the non standard shape, george's vf5's are a great sounding bass. there's something to please almost anyone now. that wasnt the case 3 years ago.

 

[vision]

I would dig seeing some pics of your gold LM if you have any available. If that's the one on Jimmy's site, that's a killer looking bass.

+1...I'd love to see pics of that bass!

 

[peterpalmieri]

+1...I'd love to see pics of that bass!

Hey Jason you sweating yet?

Remind us of the specs of your bass, if you and Jimmy ballparked a weight and what's your ETA?

 

[vision]

Hey Jason you sweating yet?

Remind us of the specs of your bass, if you and Jimmy ballparked a weight and what's your ETA?

Here's the mockup of my LM5 (I'm not sure if I mentioned it in the thread but I changed the color to 3 tone sunburst), courtesy thndrstk6:

My bass will have the one piece neck and skunk stripe. The body is the old body style, from before Jimmy widened his 5 string bodies.

Last I heard about it the body had been sent out for paint but he was still working on the neck. That was almost a month ago. I'm hoping to have it by October, but we'll see!

 

[peterpalmieri]

Here's the mockup of my LM5 (I'm not sure if I mentioned it in the thread but I changed the color to 3 tone sunburst), courtesy thndrstk6:

My bass will have the one piece neck and skunk stripe. The body is the old body style, from before Jimmy widened his 5 string bodies.

Last I heard about it the body had been sent out for paint but he was still working on the neck. That was almost a month ago. I'm hoping to have it by October, but we'll see!

Very nice....Bullet truss rod I assume? Standard neck profile?

Vic must have got you to change the color