No idea why a builder would buy a CNC. Its madness. There are plenty of CNC machines accross the world sitting idle - with skilled operators who will sell their downtime for a fraction of the cost of a new machine.
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Club Alleva-Coppolo (Part 13)
- Thread starter Bryan R. Tyler
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Good point. New business idea...
Jimmy sells his CNC to an existing fab shop, or to some startup fab shop, and part of the deal is "special pricing" on work done, including actual work against existing designs, as well as new design implementation. Everybody's happy, and Jimmy pockets a bunch of operating capital.
Ehhh, whadda I know, right?
A bit of a different topic. I've noticed in a few of the "other" builder threads lately a lot of discussion about single coils vs. hum cancelling etc.
I notice very little to no hum with either of my ACs until I get to ridiculous volumes. Does everyone else have similar results?
I notice very little to no hum with either of my ACs until I get to ridiculous volumes. Does everyone else have similar results?
I think you might be misunderstanding 'single coil' hum. When both pickups are on full (or balanced exactly with the vol/vol), the pickups hum cancel each other, so no different from HC pickups. It's only when you totally solo either pickup that you get the 60cycle classic SC hum, and this will happen to all single coil pickups... regardless of brand, type or make.
The good news is, if you get your technique with the vol/vol down, so that you find that '5% cut' of either of the knobs to favor the bridge or neck pickup, you will find that you can get 80% of a solo'd pickup sound with the pickups still hum cancelling each other for the most part.
If you know what you are doing with them, there really is no 'noise' issue with single coils.
Edit: Another source of 'noise' is poor shielding, and this impacts single coils and HC pickups. The A-C's are VERY nicely shielded (pickups and cavity it seems)... VERY quiet.. very nice!
I'm gonna go see Jimmy tonight most likely and will try to get some answers for you guys. But the options discussion is getting out of whack a little... IMHO.
AFAIK, the new 2010 5-string bodies are larger for both the J and P style basses. Current orders are being offered in the old shape because he's got some pre-cut bodies in the shop he is working though. I haven't heard or seen him cut a new body blank in the old shape, except for Kirk's LG; which isn't even the old shape - it's different altogether; he said he put those templates away.
Same goes for the headstocks, all new cuts are the new shape. And I don't believe he has a stock of pre-cut old shape headstock that aren't spoken for. So new orders, regardless of body shape should get the new headstock.
For neck shape, these are all done by hand so yes Jimmy will try to accomodate. Even with the CNC, from what I understand, the machine will be used for rough cutting; at least in the beginning; so he still will contour, shape and sand the pieces. Going by this I'm sure he will still try to accommodate on neck shape.
As for weight, Jimmy has always maintained that he did not think light Ash sounds as good as light Alder. Doesn't mean there are no exceptions, i.e. Ken's LM and a few others, but the stock of Ash he had when I met him; which is all gone by the way; was on the heavier side. So from my understanding, folks who want an LG pretty do not have to worry about weight as they will be on the light side, how light? I don't know. It's the LM folks that have something to discuss with the man. The new body shape should have little or no impact on weight, as the bodies are also a bit thinner now, so that makes up for it give or take.
I hope this helps... But I will talk to him some more tonight.
AFAIK, the new 2010 5-string bodies are larger for both the J and P style basses. Current orders are being offered in the old shape because he's got some pre-cut bodies in the shop he is working though. I haven't heard or seen him cut a new body blank in the old shape, except for Kirk's LG; which isn't even the old shape - it's different altogether; he said he put those templates away.
Same goes for the headstocks, all new cuts are the new shape. And I don't believe he has a stock of pre-cut old shape headstock that aren't spoken for. So new orders, regardless of body shape should get the new headstock.
For neck shape, these are all done by hand so yes Jimmy will try to accomodate. Even with the CNC, from what I understand, the machine will be used for rough cutting; at least in the beginning; so he still will contour, shape and sand the pieces. Going by this I'm sure he will still try to accommodate on neck shape.
As for weight, Jimmy has always maintained that he did not think light Ash sounds as good as light Alder. Doesn't mean there are no exceptions, i.e. Ken's LM and a few others, but the stock of Ash he had when I met him; which is all gone by the way; was on the heavier side. So from my understanding, folks who want an LG pretty do not have to worry about weight as they will be on the light side, how light? I don't know. It's the LM folks that have something to discuss with the man. The new body shape should have little or no impact on weight, as the bodies are also a bit thinner now, so that makes up for it give or take.
I hope this helps... But I will talk to him some more tonight.
Good point. New business idea...
Jimmy sells his CNC to an existing fab shop, or to some startup fab shop, and part of the deal is "special pricing" on work done, including actual work against existing designs, as well as new design implementation. Everybody's happy, and Jimmy pockets a bunch of operating capital.
Ehhh, whadda I know, right?
Well, IMO, if you look at it simply from a bass building standpoint then I might agree with you. But then if Jimmy did that then folks would complain (even more) that their bass is no longer "handmade". You can't win.
But, I look at the big picture as Kirk mentioned in a previous post. The CNC will not only cut bodies and necks, but it can also cut pickup covers or the housing for his outboard preamp just to name a couple. He can also expand to cutting for outside companies as Kirk alluded to earlier.
Yes, it sucks that some of the time was taken from building to get the CNC running but I think it's worth it in the long run. I think the wait time is still within reason, as other builder's businesses are down so their wait times are shorter but thankfully for Jimmy, that's not the story at his shop.
Hey guys ... i took this pic of "our hero" yesterday as he was trying to get a new belt on the sander ... it's a little blurry, but none the less, it's Jimmy, hard at work.
After reading this new thread, i have to say that all of the negative posts about the CNC sound ridiculously selfish ... Most of you have absolutely no idea the volume that Jimmy is trying to handle by himself. Presently, there are 44 basses in production and another 100 on order. What is the problem with a small business owner trying to keep all of his production self contained? or for that matter, a small business owner trying to grow his business into something bigger. Funny, i don't see any posts praising Jimmy about trying to cut down the wait time for the basses. I, personally, don't want to wait a year the next time I want a new AC and I'm excited for the possibilities that the CNC will allow him to do. Anybody who has gotten to know Jimmy knows that he's a freak for quality control and I can't imagine that that will change when the machine is up and running. Change is inevitable fellas, regardless of who the builder is. I know that this is an open forum with all opinions welcome, but I'm convinced that too many people on here just want something to complain about and that bums me out.
Enjoy the basses that you've got ... if you don't like the changes that Jimmy is making, simply don't buy a new AC ... plain & simple ...
Have a nice day ...
After reading this new thread, i have to say that all of the negative posts about the CNC sound ridiculously selfish ... Most of you have absolutely no idea the volume that Jimmy is trying to handle by himself. Presently, there are 44 basses in production and another 100 on order. What is the problem with a small business owner trying to keep all of his production self contained? or for that matter, a small business owner trying to grow his business into something bigger. Funny, i don't see any posts praising Jimmy about trying to cut down the wait time for the basses. I, personally, don't want to wait a year the next time I want a new AC and I'm excited for the possibilities that the CNC will allow him to do. Anybody who has gotten to know Jimmy knows that he's a freak for quality control and I can't imagine that that will change when the machine is up and running. Change is inevitable fellas, regardless of who the builder is. I know that this is an open forum with all opinions welcome, but I'm convinced that too many people on here just want something to complain about and that bums me out.
Enjoy the basses that you've got ... if you don't like the changes that Jimmy is making, simply don't buy a new AC ... plain & simple ...
Have a nice day ...
svtb15
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I don't think anyone here has a problem with him using a CNC at all. And I don't think guys are complaining either. It's moreso questioning if buying a CNC was a good idea or not from a business standpoint - if that thing cost is as expensive as it's been said it was (around $100K) and he hasn't been able to get it going yet, then he's spent a ton of money on something that he hasn't seen any benefits from for all this time. Now if he's able to have his vision of ramping up production and maybe doing bodies for others, then he could start making money off of it and it will all make sense. But once again - I don't think any of us were complaining, we were discussing whether or not it made sense for his business.
Ken,
I absolutely understand single coil hum. I prescibe to the 5-10% rule when favoring one pickup but also notice little to no ill effects when totally soloing a single pickup 100%. I guess my original point wasn't as clear as I wanted it to be. The hum with a single pickup solo'd is so minor that I need to raise the volume on my amp to a level far above what I would ever perform at to notice it.
In addition when I run either bass into protools using my countryman into an Focusrite ISA or using my countryman at a soundcheck there is also very little noticable hum when soloing a pickup.
svtb15
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the pro and cons have been sorted out many times already regarding that in this thread and others...
So many armchair entrepreneurs around here... maybe people need to go into business building basses and bass parts for themselves since they have so much knowledge regarding the subject.
So many armchair entrepreneurs around here... maybe people need to go into business building basses and bass parts for themselves since they have so much knowledge regarding the subject.
svtb15
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I studio I used to work at had old CRT screens in the control room which casued noise.. everyone is now LED or LCD screens now.. yeahhh.
dont know if that had anything to do with it.
dont know if that had anything to do with it.
Made sense? I hear ya Jason, but once again ... the big picture is that he got an opportunity to get the machine and seized it in hopes to better his business. Can we fault him for that? I don't think so. Was he a bit short sighted in how much it was really gonna cost to get it all happening? Yes, most definitely. I chalk it up to him being overzealous about what he does. Every business owner needs a goal. Jimmy is just working at his, as round about as it may seem.
I guess we can agree to disagree about what we see as complaints vs. discussion.
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This is all that I'm saying. I think we agree with each other on that. I can speak for myself that I was never complaining, just discussing what is going on. And I'm one of the people who would definitely be in a position to complain if that was how I felt, since I have a bass on order right now.
What I think is really cool is that Jimmy's work is evolving over time. As he finds little things that he can integrate into his basses he tries it. Sometimes it's a great addition or like the micro tilt it's something that doesn't make it to production models.
When I agreed to the one piece maple neck with stripe it was something that Jimmy hadn't tried yet, along with the bullet truss. My bass wasn't the first to have these but his vision hadn't been expressed in a bass at that point. It seems to me that Jimmy was not 100% satisfied with the LM representing a true late 70s Fender and he has made some changes to the design. That doesn't mean the prior basses aren't killer he just felt he could improve them.
I'm glad he does things the way he does, if the model specs aren't always 100% clearly defined on his website or are a moving target I can live with it. Those of us who have dealt with him personally on an order know he is very detailed and has lot's of options he just doesn't have a laundry list that you check off.
When I agreed to the one piece maple neck with stripe it was something that Jimmy hadn't tried yet, along with the bullet truss. My bass wasn't the first to have these but his vision hadn't been expressed in a bass at that point. It seems to me that Jimmy was not 100% satisfied with the LM representing a true late 70s Fender and he has made some changes to the design. That doesn't mean the prior basses aren't killer he just felt he could improve them.
I'm glad he does things the way he does, if the model specs aren't always 100% clearly defined on his website or are a moving target I can live with it. Those of us who have dealt with him personally on an order know he is very detailed and has lot's of options he just doesn't have a laundry list that you check off.
You are very lucky then... mine hum like buzzards when totally solo'd. If you are in a 'lucky room' with great AC and little other interference, they can be quiet. However, the 5% rule makes it a bit of a moot point anyway.
Interesting, of course there are the all bets are off type of rooms, where I have to lift the ground but that's a ground loop issue where any bass hums when you loose contact with the strings.
In my basement and some decent halls I have the opportunity to plug into a home run, some of the old fenders and other basses I've owned hum when soloing a pickup the AC does not.
svtb15
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You know.. even my PJ5 Sad with HC J pickup gets noise in real bad situations at times.... When that happens i need to solo the P and it becomes silent.. there is a method to my madness and a madness to my method.
IMHO, non-issue. Despite the fact the concern holds no value, and is easily addressed with a simple explanation, ultimately, even if someone did have that concern, who ran the machine would have no bearing on it. It's the same program regardless of who runs the machine.
I also have to challenge this. First of all, again, it doesn't matter who runs the machine. REALLY. It's the same program no matter who pushes the buttons. All that matters is the quality of the wood, and Jimmy would still submit the blanks, so he'd still be in total control of what really mattered. Also, I'm shocked the issue of taking on extra work for other companies is even being considered. I can imagine it being many years before he's integrated the CNC machine into his process to such a level that he'd have that much free time... I can even see it never happening.
Bottom line is, it's clearly his business and his choice to do what he wants, and this is only IMHO, and nothing more, but I don't see either of the above points holding much water.
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